billsbackto81 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I kinda feel Foster and Roberts are making it difficult for Duke to get in the game. Foster (the Alabama favorite) suits up because I guess they feel sooner or later he and Josh will connect on some deep shots, though I wont hold my breath. Roberts the (ST player) is active because of his return ability but Roberts the (WR) is pretty much M.I.A . It would have been nice to have Duke in the line up the last 2 games where I've noticed our Red Zone TD % has taken a hit and we've settled for FG's instead. Personally I'd sit Foster. Don't know whether he isn't fully healthy or just doesn't have it this year. Roberts is just as good of a deep threat at this point. Smoke will be blanketed by Harris this week opening up opportunities for others like Beasley, Knox and Duke if active. Duke provides that big body in the intermediate game that can shield DB's and high point Joshs' elevated throws, especially in the RZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinES3 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: WHAT IS THE OBSESSION Size. Hands. A true red zone threat. (The closest thing we have anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) I'm not sure I see the benefit of another "speed guy" like Foster in the line up. If you could point to one long ball a speed guy has completed this year I'd love to watch the replay. Josh hasn't hit a long throw all year. The closest thing to a long ball was Brown's first TD last week and Josh threw that one on a rope. Maybe this is the week that Josh finally drops it right into the arms of a streaking Brown, Roberts, or Foster 50 yards down the field. I sure hope so. More than likely though, it isn't. Whereas having another possession receiver (Duke) to make a contested catch 8-12 yards down the field and move the sticks, and be a solid red zone target, seems to be worth more right now with the type of offense we are running and the way Josh is throwing the deep ball (poorly). Just my humble opinion... Edited November 21, 2019 by Inigo Montoya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Idk...maybe Duke just isn’t very good. maybe some of the resident all-22 tape heads can help us on this because is hard to see if Duke is getting open from the broadcast angle. Either way, I trust McD and the coaches more than some random Duke stan on this message board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coffin Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 It’s always the 54th man that just so happens to be better than the other 53 lol 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Laughing Coffin said: It’s always the 54th man that just so happens to be better than the other 53 lol it’s funny like that right? Duke is getting the backup QB treatment around here by some of these posters that know nothing about football. Most popularest guy in the room - Duke ‘never done nithin in the NFL’ Williams. Fan favorite, apparently. these are the people that look at height weight and 40-time and demand that guy get reps. It’s so, so dumb and it will never stop. Edited November 21, 2019 by JoPoy88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 IMHO healthy Foster > healthy Duke. Foster & Duke both are extremely frustrating as they’ve both have now had proven injury issues, and questionable all around WR traits, from football IQ, & ability. There is a huge difference between a top tier NFL WR like John Brown and those guys. Brown brings the complete package. Duke appears to be a body frame catcher unable to create his own separation. Foster appears to simply have blazing straight line speed. They are players that have to be schemes into the offense play. It’s better to have WRs who can fit into any offensive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halloween Land Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 13 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: Stubborn all the way to a 7-3 record Maybe not stubborn this year, but the whole Nathan Peterman obsession was not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Halloween Land said: Maybe not stubborn this year, but the whole Nathan Peterman obsession was not good. He started half a game, was pulled for the rest of the season (except injury) and then was benched after one half starting the next year. Started one more game when he was the only one standing, was promptly cut The "Obsession" last 4 starts, 2 due to injury and he only finished one game he started and was cut days later. Think Bills fan thought it was linger because it was so bad, but 1.5 years for a 5th round pick who looked excellent in PS, is really not that long 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 17 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: WHAT IS THE OBSESSION Duke is an awesome name! I mean it would be great if we had a bigger receiver who was good. But we do get obsessed with players who just might not be good enough to play in the nfl. (Mike Jasper, that wr from Nebraska, that dude from Miami of Ohio, Jeff Tuel - he had a td drive in a preseason game!). 11 hours ago, Dopey said: Here's why I trust the staff and why it makes sense: 4 games pre-Duke: We avg. 19 points per game and 225.75 passing yds per game 3 games with Duke: We avg. 19.33 points per game and 181 passing yds per game 3 games since Duke has been a healthy scratch: We avg. 25.6 points per game and 227.3 passing yds per game Duke got his chance. He scored a TD. We still only scored 14 points that game. Overall his presence hasn't helped like some thought it would. Scoring went up by only .33 per game from the previous 3 games and passing yds went DOWN by over 44 yds per game with him in the lineup. Duke then sits and scoring goes up by over 6 points per game and passing yds go up by over 46 yds per game. Seems the passing game was better both pre and post Duke. That’s a very simplistic way to look at things. There are a lot of other factors to why those numbers look different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 9 hours ago, WideNine said: You may trust this staff, but I am still skeptical in regards to their ability to judge receiving talent - We are not that far removed from Kelvin Benjamin and Zay Jones. Brown was a proven commodity before coming to the Bills. Your rushing analogy makes no sense - correlation is not causation for example: Against the Browns we had a combined 56 yards rushing for all our backs, but Duke was not in the game. The ONLY possible explanation is that we lacked the impact of having Duke's blocking on the edges? In regards to total rushing yards, Daboll throws darts at a board deciding on how often this team is going to run the ball and the number of rushing yards has nothing to do with the fact that Duke is a better blocker on the edges than our smurfs. Duke has only been targeted 7 times - he has caught 6 of those for 58 yards and a score. You have to be used to see if you can be useful, and this staff gives way more opportunities to some to prove they suck than others. I assume there has to be more to the story, and it may simply be a numbers game with the personnel packages they want to run, but I am not going to say the kid can't ball. Titans Duke 4 targets 4 completions 29 yards and TD Miami 1st divisional game Duke targeted once - complete for 23 yards Eagles Duke 2 targets - completion 1 for 6 yards The staff has brought in a wr on pace for 90 receptions and 1300 yds along with another on pace for 68 receptions and 718 yds. Sure, Brown was a proven commodity, what's that go to do with anything? Beane tried to get him the year before. Even the best gm's out there miss on a few, but it looks like they fixed it to me. It's ok to let the Kelvin thing go. If you're looking for the perfect GM, you'll never be happy. So, yes I trust them. Instead of picking 1 game to establish Duke can run block, I presented numbers that showed a trend when Duke got the call. Passing numbers way down AND rushing numbers way down. It is what it is, regardless of the Browns game. Can you explain the trend? Four games pre Duke, almost 148 a game on the ground. With Duke, 108 per game on the ground. Post Duke, 124.6 on the ground. Again it is what it is. My analogy is not based on 1 game, but a trend with Duke playing vs. without Duke. Maybe, just maybe Duke wasn't getting the targets cuz he wasn't open. Why would you throw to a wr that is not open when you can throw to an open wr? Because he's big and can fight for it?! Passing numbers went way down with Duke in the lineup compared to Pre and Post Duke. If he was getting open, he would have had more chances. Duke sits and both running and passing picks up, by a lot. When you take a faster wr out for Duke, we really only have 1 down field threat(Brown). That was a really slow group of wr's with Duke in there and it showed. Now we have more of a down field presence, wr's are open more for it and no need to fight for a ball cuz someone isn't open. Plus our TE's can do what Duke does and are better blockers. I was as happy as anyone when he caught that TD, but he just doesn't offer enough right now to break into the starting 53. He tried and it looks like our offense suffered for it. Hope he gets better and produces, but he shouldn't come up just cuz he's 6'2" and 215lbs. It really is hard to argue Duke makes the offense better given what has occurred while he was playing. The trend and numbers show just the opposite. If he's brought up at all, it will most likely be due to injury. Who knows, he might be given a shot during the stretch of tough games coming up(Ravens, Steelers, Pats). Maybe we need his physical presence during that stretch. We'll see. Hopefully the TE's produce in that stretch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: I kinda feel Foster and Roberts are making it difficult for Duke to get in the game. Foster (the Alabama favorite) suits up because I guess they feel sooner or later he and Josh will connect on some deep shots, though I wont hold my breath. Roberts the (ST player) is active because of his return ability but Roberts the (WR) is pretty much M.I.A . Foster is in for ST too. He's usually the first one to the ball on coverage. The coaches see Duke every day in practice. They are holding him out for a reason, and it's not because he's awesome and they are trying to score less. Edited November 21, 2019 by Sundancer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 12 hours ago, WideNine said: If marginal and sub-standard means productive when given the chance in actual games, blocking on the edges, high pointing balls, winning contested throws, and scoring TDs, then I do like marginal WRs over track guys that rarely produce when given multiple games and reps to show up. You have been able to squeeze a lot of analysis on his 6 catches (over 3 games) this season... And it's scoring "TD", not "TDs". He has as many as Lee Smith. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You have been able to squeeze a lot of analysis on his 6 catches (over 3 games) this season... And it's scoring "TD", not "TDs". He has as many as Lee Smith. No listen — these guys, who TOTALLY watched every down this guy played in canada TOTALLY know more than the coaches that see him practice every day. are there some resident tape heads with the all-22 that can determine hey: was this guy getting open the 4 games he played? Im honestly curious to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 18 hours ago, keepthefaith said: I'd like to see a bigger bodied receiver out there among the rest of the smurfish receivers that the Bills have. Foster is 6' 2". And we throw to the TEs reasonably often. I've got no problem with the height we've got out there now. If they can find a use for Duke, great, but it's not a need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Foster is 6' 2". And we throw to the TEs reasonably often. I've got no problem with the height we've got out there now. If they can find a use for Duke, great, but it's not a need. Agree on the tight ends. Foster hasn't yet shown much beyond using his speed and Josh isn't hitting deep passes. Duke might add something in the shorter passing game and more positional routes. Coaches apparently haven't seen enough from Duke to put him in there recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 No to Duke. No to Foster. Somebody get me Da'Rick Rodgers! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: No listen — these guys, who TOTALLY watched every down this guy played in canada TOTALLY know more than the coaches that see him practice every day. are there some resident tape heads with the all-22 that can determine hey: was this guy getting open the 4 games he played? Im honestly curious to know. I'm as skeptical as anyone as to this HC's ability to spot and assemble superior offensive talent (yearly), but even I wonder how rough must "the Duke" look in practice that they won't play him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: You have been able to squeeze a lot of analysis on his 6 catches (over 3 games) this season... And it's scoring "TD", not "TDs". He has as many as Lee Smith. The only analysis I provided is that he has done a lot with the 7 targets he was given, while there are other receivers who have been given more opportunities and have been meh. I think it is a fair statement to say we don't know what we have with this kid because of the limited reps. Not going to say he is a world-beater, I don't get too high or too low on our PS guys, but no one really knows what he can bring to this offense with the limited chances he has been given. Nice Lee Smith comment, I think we may have done a tackle eligible play once last year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, WideNine said: The only analysis I provided is that he has done a lot with the 7 targets he was given, while there are other receivers who have been given more opportunities and have been meh. I think it is a fair statement to say we don't know what we have with this kid because of the limited reps. Not going to say he is a world-beater, I don't get too high or too low on our PS guys, but no one really knows what he can bring to this offense with the limited chances he has been given. Nice Lee Smith comment, I think we may have done a tackle eligible play once last year too. I would have led with that rather than the references to fighting for contested balls, high pointing things and scoring TDs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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