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Josh Allen's statistical placement through 12 games vs 2018 season

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36 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

2018 ypa 32? I thought Allen was like in the top 3 in yards per attempt last year? Are you sure that’s not with the other Bills QBs mixed in?

 

Ypa is very completion percentage dependant. He had a high air yards per attempt

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People are going to always be into stats. That’s fine. It really is as simple as: Allen is Cam Newton without the attention. They are the same on the field. That’s who he is. You just have to win a different way with that type of QB and that’s ok.

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4 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

People are going to always be into stats. That’s fine. It really is as simple as: Allen is Cam Newton without the attention. They are the same on the field. That’s who he is. You just have to win a different way with that type of QB and that’s ok.

 

You are right about one thing: Your analysis is simple....

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15 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Always respect your opinion Gunner; however, I would say Allen is much closer to what Wilson was in his first two years than not.

 

Allen is on pace this year to finish with  3480 yds, 21 TDs, 11 INTs, and 11 Rushing TDs

Wilson in his second year finished with 3357 yds, 26 TDs, 09 INTs, and 01 Rushing TDs

 

It is truly hard to compare Allen's first year with Wilson's first year. Allen started only 11 games to Wilson's 16. Allen was asked to carry a team with no running game and arguably bottom 3 talent at WR and OL. Wilson was asked to manage a team with the number one rushing game and a defense that was not only #1 in the league, but also great at forcing turnovers and creating good field position for the offense.

 

As far as the rushing TDs go, I think it is a bit unfair to equate that to Josh having an inability to process the field quicker in the redzone. I would agree with you that was the case last year, but not so much at this point. I think it is more a product of a lack of real ability by receivers to get open in the redzone, trust in them to make contested catches, and confidence in his ability to make plays with his feet inside the 10 yard line. Wilson also had, perhaps, the best power rushing game inside the 10 yard line in the league, which, IMO, opened things up for his receivers a bit more.

 

While he may not have the same number of passing TDs over his first two years as Wilson, I would say, given everything else, he is closer right now to what Wilson was in his second year than you think.

 

I agree with most of the above.... although I still think he is a less natural processor and thrower than Russ..... but the bolded..... I still see issues processing in the redzone at times.

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10 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

People are going to always be into stats. That’s fine. It really is as simple as: Allen is Cam Newton without the attention. They are the same on the field. That’s who he is. You just have to win a different way with that type of QB and that’s ok.

I don’t think you know what cam newton plays like...

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Allen had the least amount of starts coming out of college. That's the reason he was considered a project above all else. Lack of experience. Comparing his 2nd year to Russ' second year is a bit misleading because Russ started for 4 years in college. Josh had 649 pass attempts over two full seasons, Russ had nearly 1,500 attempts over 4 years. He had 527 in ONE season. That's a huge gap in experience. Lets just be happy we got our guy and he's improving every week.

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2 minutes ago, Luka said:

Allen had the least amount of starts coming out of college. That's the reason he was considered a project above all else. Lack of experience. Comparing his 2nd year to Russ' second year is a bit misleading because Russ started for 4 years in college. Josh had 649 pass attempts over two full seasons, Russ had nearly 1,500 attempts over 4 years. He had 527 in ONE season. That's a huge gap in experience. Lets just be happy we got our guy and he's improving every week.

 

Agree. And I did make that point. It is perfectly fine for Allen to be less developed at this stage than a Wilson or a Watson who played a lot more college ball and at a higher level.

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3 hours ago, GreggTX said:

23rd is better than 32nd. True enough, but it's nowhere near good enough. So the real question is how good can he be and how long will it take to get there? Chris Simms said his inaccuracy can be fixed, but we haven't seen that yet. In the meantime, we would do well to keep handing the ball off to Singletary. That worked quite well last Sunday.

 

I still have serious doubts about Josh, but I do like him and want him to succeed. Beane is the one I'm most worried about.

His completion percentage is up almost 10%..... we've literally seen it be fixed. It doesn't happen over night.. If he's up 5% again next year.. we're at ~67% completion percentage... jesus........ 

 

we're 7-3. How did you make it through the drought?

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9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with most of the above.... although I still think he is a less natural processor and thrower than Russ..... but the bolded..... I still see issues processing in the redzone at times.

 

Fair enough. I would agree that, at this point, he is not quite where Russell was, but not far off either. For me, as it is for you, I'm sure, is that he is continuing to get better.

 

As an aside, and it is just my opinion, I believe his overall game would be better if Daboll was more consistent in implementing plays designed to maximize and take full advantage of the areas in which Allen has really progressed (and are his strengths) this year. I, feel at times, he has forced Allen into a role where he was playing to his weaknesses rather than his strengths (i.e.; the New England game and, to some extent, the Cleveland game and a couple others). 

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26 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I don’t think you know what cam newton plays like...

Exactly like Josh Allen. Have you watched him? Not Cam Newton post injuries. Original Cam Newton where he was a physical runner and was the panthers best redzone threat. A little inaccurate, big arm, very hard to bring down, excellent runner.

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17 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Fair enough. I would agree that, at this point, he is not quite where Russell was, but not far off either. For me, as it is for you, I'm sure, is that he is continuing to get better.

 

As an aside, and it is just my opinion, I believe his overall game would be better if Daboll was more consistent in implementing plays designed to maximize and take full advantage of the areas in which Allen has really progressed (and are his strengths) this year. I, feel at times, he has forced Allen into a role where he was playing to his weaknesses rather than his strengths (i.e.; the New England game and, to some extent, the Cleveland game and a couple others). 

 

Agree we should play to his strengths, and those are not - at this point in his career - making a clutch throw on 3rd down with a full field read when everyone in the stadium knows you are going to throw. Run, run, pass is not what Josh is built to execute. Especially this week. The book on beating the Broncos D is throw on 1st down.

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16 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Exactly like Josh Allen. Have you watched him? Not Cam Newton post injuries. Original Cam Newton where he was a physical runner and was the panthers best redzone threat. A little inaccurate, big arm, very hard to bring down, excellent runner.

 

I guess pre-injury you are right.  Cam is similar to where JA is now. However, JA's completion percentage and yards/attempt are on an upward trajectory. Cam never really improved (excluding single year bumps).  By rule, QBs completion percentage shouldn't increase.  But JA has already broke that rule.  If he continues to improve his completion percentage, he will surpass Cam. 

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46 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with most of the above.... although I still think he is a less natural processor and thrower than Russ..... but the bolded..... I still see issues processing in the redzone at times.

 

If issues with process = #1 in redzone TD percentage then SIGN ME UP FOR MORE issues with the PROCESS

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15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree we should play to his strengths, and those are not - at this point in his career - making a clutch throw on 3rd down with a full field read when everyone in the stadium knows you are going to throw. Run, run, pass is not what Josh is built to execute. Especially this week. The book on beating the Broncos D is throw on 1st down.

 

This is, to me, a big week for Daboll.  Once again, he's shown that he is perfectly capable of devising a gameplan based on the strengths of our offense and the weaknesses of our opponent.

 

My hope is that he does something that he's never done before ..... call that kind of gameplan in consecutive weeks.

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Last year, he was pretty much at the bottom of the league (in terms of JUST passing stats).  We are talking around #30-32 in most overall rankings. 

He was arguably better than fellow rookies Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson.  That was about it.  There were flashes of his abilities, but the consistency just wasn't there.

 

At just over the midway point of 2019, I would say he's jumped about 10 spots.  Now he's hovering between #20-25 in the passing rankings. 

That is pretty decent progress for a single offseason.  Especially considering the total overhaul we've see on that side of the ball - both WRs, TEs and O-Line, and the time needed to get everyone on the same page.

 

As a QB with significant running ability, I also think his overall ranking would be higher than just what his passing stats reveal alone.  A touchdown is a touchdown, regardless of whether it came on the ground or through the air.  If he's #20-25 in just passing, I think it's fair to say he's in the #15-20 range with everything included.

 

 

In my opinion, the goal is for Josh Allen to be in the Top #10-12 overall (passing and running) by the middle of Year 4. 

He's definitely not there yet.  But if he continues to trend upwards, there is definitely some hope.

 

 

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IF Only the detractors could now admit Josh Allens growth.

 

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

This is, to me, a big week for Daboll.  Once again, he's shown that he is perfectly capable of devising a gameplan based on the strengths of our offense and the weaknesses of our opponent.

 

My hope is that he does something that he's never done before ..... call that kind of gameplan in consecutive weeks.

 

AMEN.  

Keep him in the booth away from Josh on the sidelines and let Josh be Josh 

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43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. And I did make that point. It is perfectly fine for Allen to be less developed at this stage than a Wilson or a Watson who played a lot more college ball and at a higher level.

NC State is QBU apparently. Hard to compete with that.

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The fact that the Bills are running a pass first offense bodes well for Josh.  The coaching staff knows far better than we do how war along he is and what he can or cant do. I'd be much more concerned if we were limiting him .  He is far from finished in terms of growth as a qb.  Now about that long ball.....  Maybe he can hit one of those soon and goes on a heater

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Josh Allen should not ever be evaluated on just his passing stats alone....his running game is a big part of his game especially in the red zone.

 

How can you leave out his rushing TDs in the QB TD %?

 

TDs are TDs whether he passes them or runs them in.

Edited by Mrbojanglezs
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Just now, Mrbojanglezs said:

Josh Allen should not ever be evaluated on just his passing stats alone....his running game is a big part of his game especially in the red zone.

 

How can you leave out his rushing TDs in the QB TD %?

 

TDS are TDS whether he passes them or runs them in.

 

Of course they don't  :thumbsup:

 

Selective stats just don't add up to give the proper picture.  

 

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41 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Fair enough. I would agree that, at this point, he is not quite where Russell was, but not far off either. For me, as it is for you, I'm sure, is that he is continuing to get better.

 

As an aside, and it is just my opinion, I believe his overall game would be better if Daboll was more consistent in implementing plays designed to maximize and take full advantage of the areas in which Allen has really progressed (and are his strengths) this year. I, feel at times, he has forced Allen into a role where he was playing to his weaknesses rather than his strengths (i.e.; the New England game and, to some extent, the Cleveland game and a couple others). 

Daboll challenges Allen to read the defense and throw the football. That’s what your QB is supposed to do. 

 

I know everyone seems to want Allen to throw the balls 20 times a game and run the ball 40 times with Singletary, but that’s not how he is going to improve. Furthermore, I’m not sure that’s how we are even going to win. There were plays to be made vs NE and Cleveland that Allen didn’t make. That’s a opportunity for him to see on Monday and work on. He got rocked by Cover zero against the Pats, struggled against it in Dolphins #1 and then dominated it by Dolphins #2. That’s what you want. Look what happened to Mitch Trubisky. They built an offense to hide his weaknesses, it got figured out, and now they can’t even complete a pass.

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4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I still have serious doubts about Josh, but I do like him and want him to succeed. Beane is the one I'm most worried about.

 

Can you explain to me what Beane has done that has you so worried?

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9 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

The fact that the Bills are running a pass first offense bodes well for Josh.  The coaching staff knows far better than we do how war along he is and what he can or cant do. I'd be much more concerned if we were limiting him .  He is far from finished in terms of growth as a qb.  Now about that long ball.....  Maybe he can hit one of those soon and goes on a heater

 

On Thanksgiving, with a climate controlled environment and a national TV audience, and with Jim Nantz and Tony Romo on the call, the Bills are really pumped to play that game whereas the Cowboys view it as a PITA.  Over under on Romo wows! for Josh Allen/Bills offensive plays?  Maybe 7.  I can see it now.  At least one vertical route hit, but there might be more.

Edited by JESSEFEFFER
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