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Extend Jordan Phillips?


Matt_In_NH

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On 11/18/2019 at 9:53 AM, Gary Busey said:

 

Fill that other hole.

 

I'd want Star cut regardless of Phillips resigning FWIW

I'm seeing Star play fairly well lately. I know this flies in the face of a popular narrative. But it's what I'm seeing. Hustle plays along the line of scrimmage, some pocket collapsing against the pass, and holding his gap(s) against the run. He's not a pro bowler, and maybe for his money he should be, but he's been solid of late.

 

Is there analysis suggesting otherwise?

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On 11/18/2019 at 8:08 AM, Mango said:

 

He is better than Harry currently...I don't understand why that would not be the case next year, especially considering they don't have all that much invested into Harrison. 

No doubt. Harrison Phillips is still relatively unknown, but we do know he's not a guy who's going to get to the QB. I do think it's very likely he can do what Star does??. And if we pay Star 10 mil plus.......

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to retain defensive lineman who make plays and tackles the QB behind the LOS. But that's just me.

 

Not quite sure what H Phillips has to do with J Phillips since H plays one tech.

55 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

I'm seeing Star play fairly well lately. I know this flies in the face of a popular narrative. But it's what I'm seeing. Hustle plays along the line of scrimmage, some pocket collapsing against the pass, and holding his gap(s) against the run. He's not a pro bowler, and maybe for his money he should be, but he's been solid of late.

 

Is there analysis suggesting otherwise?

Well the run D was terrible for several weeks until the Miami game when they employed a far more rotational DT approach, so there's that.

Edited by LSHMEAB
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13 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Yup. TFLs lead to huge pay days.

 

 

Depending on who actually makes it to FA Jordan Phillips may actually be a franchise and trade candidate.

 

McBeane haven't worn that black hat yet it will be interesting seeing how the team reacts when they actually start to have to make business decisions on popular, productive players.

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1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

I'm seeing Star play fairly well lately. I know this flies in the face of a popular narrative. But it's what I'm seeing. Hustle plays along the line of scrimmage, some pocket collapsing against the pass, and holding his gap(s) against the run. He's not a pro bowler, and maybe for his money he should be, but he's been solid of late.

 

Is there analysis suggesting otherwise?

 

 

The Miami game was Star's best game as a Bill, IMO.   He's really started to get criticized past few weeks........Archuleta even called him out on the broadcast.........and it sure looked like he was unusually active on Sunday.  But then again it was a pretty woeful OL.   We'll see if he can keep it up.  

Edited by BADOLBILZ
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19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Depending on who actually makes it to FA Jordan Phillips may actually be a franchise and trade candidate.

 

McBeane haven't worn that black hat yet it will be interesting seeing how the team reacts when they actually start to have to make business decisions on popular, productive players.


We are going to have something like 90M in space next year. Isn’t this the entire reason we went 6-10, so that shite like this didn’t happen. 

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I hope I'm wrong but he screams 'motivated by contract year.'  

 

And it's going to cost 12-15 mill per year.  I'm not doing that.  And he's going to turn 28 next year.  2-3 years good production left?  That's what I'd put the contract at go no higher than 12 per.

 

Look at the names on this list in that range and you tell me if he's as good as those guys.  

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-tackle/

 

Also, we need to revisit this discussion after he plays against the Dallas Pittsburgh and Baltimore olines.  Elite players making elite money perform vs the best.  

 

Vs Washington and Philly (the 2 best interior olines we've seen) completely MIA.  

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46 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

And it's going to cost 12-15 mill per year.  I'm not doing that.  And he's going to turn 28 next year.  2-3 years good production left?  That's what I'd put the contract at go no higher than 12 per.

 


I would like to see them keep him if there isn’t  crazy money involved ...

 

Earlier in the year I was at 27M for 3 years but that ain’t gunna cut it anymore...

 

$48M/ $27M guaranteed for 4 years is my latest... I would let him go if more is required..

 

 

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On 11/18/2019 at 9:35 AM, BringBackOrton said:

Jordan Phillips is the exact kind of dude you don’t get into a bidding war with. I like him a lot, but history dictates that these kinds of one hit wonder dudes get big deals and then cut a year or two later.

true, guys playing for a contract.  an actor on a stage.   see if you can extend him, of course, but don't make him the next Marcel Dareus. 

Edited by ProcessTruster
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On 11/18/2019 at 9:53 AM, Gary Busey said:

 

I'd want Star cut regardless of Phillips resigning FWIW

 

This makes no financial sense. He's got a lot of dead cap money the next two years. Unless he is not even worth rotating, they probably keep him. 

 

If they cut him, they pay 8M next year and 5 the year following for him to bag groceries, AND pay for his replacement, probably dumping 15M into a position where they will still be weak. 

Edited by Sundancer
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2 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

This makes no financial sense. He's got a lot of dead cap money the next two years. Unless he is not even worth rotating, they probably keep him. 

 

If they cut him, they pay 8M next year and 5 the year following for him to bag groceries, AND pay for his replacement, probably dumping 15M into a position where they will still be weak. 

 

Thought the dead cap was much less. If your numbers are correct they'll keep him. 

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8 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Sign him. 

4yr deal. If he plays it out that $ will be converted to Oliver anyways when he gets an extension after his rookie deal. 

 

Yep - and then at that point you know what you have in Oliver.  Can he be an effective pass rusher inside?  

2 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

This makes no financial sense. He's got a lot of dead cap money the next two years. Unless he is not even worth rotating, they probably keep him. 

 

If they cut him, they pay 8M next year and 5 the year following for him to bag groceries, AND pay for his replacement, probably dumping 15M into a position where they will still be weak. 

 

His dead cap hit would be 7.8 million next year - nothing in 2021 unless they split the 7.8 over 2020 and 2021.  The cap hit is his pro-rated signing bonus (which was already paid but split over 5 years), but salary/roster/workout bonuses are not guaranteed.  Cash wise - we would pay him absolutely nothing to not play here next year.  He already got the money when he signed in 2018.  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/

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3 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

This makes no financial sense. He's got a lot of dead cap money the next two years. Unless he is not even worth rotating, they probably keep him. 

 

If they cut him, they pay 8M next year and 5 the year following for him to bag groceries, AND pay for his replacement, probably dumping 15M into a position where they will still be weak. 


This sounds exactly like a situation buffalo has been in before. Trade deadweight...because. Eat a ton of dead cap. Pay the replacement similar cash. Get less production (although different roles). Still be weak at the position. 
 

God, I hope we don’t go through groundhogs day with this...

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13 hours ago, Mango said:


We are going to have something like 90M in space next year. Isn’t this the entire reason we went 6-10, so that shite like this didn’t happen. 

You’re absolutely right, 

Don’t ya just love it when someone invents an issue that doesn’t exist, and then plays it like it’s a real thing? Always makes me chuckle a bit....

 

Go Bills!!!

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Probably gonna have to let him walk unless he gives us hometown discount.

I'd rather have us put money into other areas like defensive end (Yannick n'gakoue) or an established WR and shore up some of our draft picks from previous years....

 

Edit: 

I really like JPhillips97 but he won't be worth it.

Edited by r00tabaga
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This will probably be controversial but my take: I think the Bills will have exactly the right value to put on Phillips. My guess is he will either re-sign here for a lot less than people are thinking, or will go to a DT needy team for a big contract that he will not live up to.

 

I like Phillips a lot...in this scheme. I have been back and forth with folks here about how McDermott uses defensive tackles and it's my belief that they can get comparable production out of that 3tech spot without breaking the bank on a guy who is admittedly putting up great numbers in his role. 

 

He's got talent, and he's flashy. He can also be undisciplined in gap control versus getting upfield and can't hold ground reliably vs double teams (to be fair not many guys playing 3tech can, but McD's defense/rotation sometimes requires it). I am hoping we keep him but not holding my breath and I certainly wouldn't hold it against him if he leaves for a bigger payday.

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I think the Bills have two things going for them.

 

First, Jordan has impressed the coaching staff and made the front office look like geniuses.  Jordan knows what being in a dog house looks like and will likely discount overall contract value to stay in an environment where he knows he is respected and has been designated a leader.

 

Second, overall contract value pales in comparison to the upfront guarantee.  This is where the Bills can "outbid" other teams.  Put money in his pocket to reward him for the play this year.  Do it now and sew it up.  Bills have $24M+ in carryover.

 

I think this gets done by Week 17 and the Bills use some of the unneeded carry-over cap to get it done.  3 year extension/$27 Million and $15Million in bonuses split between $10 Million this year (encumbered all in the 2019 season as added salary) and $5M next with base salaries of $4M a year for the next three years.

Edited by JoeF
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