Phil The Thrill Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) I know that this is Belichick’s philosophy - you fumble the ball, you go to the bench. I can understand this, if it’s a backup or a marginal player losing the ball. But from everything that I’ve read, for most players, fumbles are random. Some players are just prone to fumble the ball given their running style, but others fumble for random reasons. Bad luck or great timing by the defense. Often times it’s not concentration penalties like false starts/personal fouls or technique issues. So as long as it’s not a technique or focus issue, if you sit a player as a punishment, how will stop him from fumbling again? I get that Singletary can’t fumble the football but he is far and away the best player on the team. When Gore was in the game after the 2nd fumble, there was one run designed off tackle where there was a huge gap in the middle of the field. I’m certain that Singletary cuts it back and pops a big run but Gore just hurts the corner and was taken down for a 1 yard gain. I guess I get the message that turning the call over is not ok - but sitting a player like Singletary just seems the old “cutting off your nose, to spite your face” mentality. Can someone tell me what sitting Singletary accomplishes? Edited November 17, 2019 by Phil The Thrill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: Can someone tell me what sitting Singletary accomplishes? To think about not fumbling again? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonley1180 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Wow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: To think about not fumbling again? But if it’s random and not a result of poor technique , what good is that going to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 To stress to player and team the importance of ball security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 As I understand it fumbles aren’t random, recovering them is. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: But if it’s random and not a result of poor technique , what good is that going to do? It is mostly random and he wasn't known for fumbles in college. In 38 games he fumbled 5 times and lost 3 of those. He was a bit sloppy with the ball there for a stretch. I can only assume it was a think what your doing moment from coach to Devin. Edited November 17, 2019 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said: But if it’s random and not a result of poor technique , what good is that going to do? Why do you think fumbles are some random variable? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 You don't... put the ball... on the ground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: I know that this is Belichick’s philosophy - you fumble the ball, you go to the bench. I can understand this, if it’s a backup or a marginal player losing the ball. But from everything that I’ve read, for most players, fumbles are random. Some players are just prone to fumble the ball given their running style, but others fumble for random reasons. Bad luck or great timing by the defense. Often times it’s not concentration penalties like false starts/personal fouls or technique issues. So as long as it’s not a technique or focus issue, if you sit a player as a punishment, how will stop him from fumbling again? I get that Singletary can’t fumble the football but he is far and away the best player on the team. When Gore was in the game after the 2nd fumble, there was one run designed off tackle where there was a huge gap in the middle of the field. I’m certain that Singletary cuts it back and pops a big run but Gore just hurts the corner and was taken down for a 1 yard gain. I guess I get the message that turning the call over is not ok - but sitting a player like Singletary just seems the old “cutting off your nose, to spite your face” mentality. Can someone tell me what sitting Singletary accomplishes? Seems to me you’re making an assumption that may not be justified (that fumbling is random) and then arguing a conclusion based on that premise. If your premise is faulty, then the conclusion is faulty. For one thing, a player may have a strain or a bruise or a jammed finger that is giving them trouble for that game and making it more likely that they’ll fumble multiple times. For another, some players are known to fumble more than others, which suggests to me there is some technique involved. So where we were close to our own goal, and a fumble could easily have become 6 for them, that was one of the few things that could have helped lose us the game. Makes 100% sense to let Motor have a seat. It accomplishes improving our win probability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Crayola64 said: Why do you think fumbles are some random variable? Can greatly depend on the defender punching or pulling the ball out when the back is making a move. I think that's what he's getting at with random? Devin's fumble here though is all on him as he coughed the ball up. This kind of fumble can absolutely not happen. Sitting a couple series is warranted IMO. Edited November 17, 2019 by Real McCoy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 It gives them time to think about not fumbling the next time. Lets them know that it NOT acceptable under any circumstances. It's standard practice. If you fumble the football you ain't gonna play much. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: To think about not fumbling again? Yep, and that mad scramble behind the LOS and reversing the field created the situation where a defensive player dove and prob broke Nsekhe's ankle. You will notice a lot more injuries happen around poorly executed or broken plays. I think McD is trying to send a message to the whole team about penalties and ball security. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Seems to me you’re making an assumption that may not be justified (that fumbling is random) and then arguing a conclusion based on that premise. If your premise is faulty, then the conclusion is faulty. For one thing, a player may have a strain or a bruise or a jammed finger that is giving them trouble for that game and making it more likely that they’ll fumble multiple times. For another, some players are known to fumble more than others, which suggests to me there is some technique involved. So where we were close to our own goal, and a fumble could easily have become 6 for them, that was one of the few things that could have helped lose us the game. Makes 100% sense to let Motor have a seat. It accomplishes improving our win probability. I would have to go back to the play to watch. I would understand if it was a player who is know for fumbling, but the offense sputtered with Gore in backfield and Motor on the bench. I think on this case, it was a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, WideNine said: Yep, and that mad scramble behind the LOS and reversing the field created the situation where a defensive player dove and prob broke Nsekhe's ankle. You will notice a lot more injuries happen around poorly executed or broken plays. I think McD is trying to send a message to the whole team about penalties and ball security. yup, just added that vid on my prior reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: I know that this is Belichick’s philosophy - you fumble the ball, you go to the bench. I can understand this, if it’s a backup or a marginal player losing the ball. But from everything that I’ve read, for most players, fumbles are random. Some players are just prone to fumble the ball given their running style, but others fumble for random reasons. Bad luck or great timing by the defense. Often times it’s not concentration penalties like false starts/personal fouls or technique issues. So as long as it’s not a technique or focus issue, if you sit a player as a punishment, how will stop him from fumbling again? I get that Singletary can’t fumble the football but he is far and away the best player on the team. When Gore was in the game after the 2nd fumble, there was one run designed off tackle where there was a huge gap in the middle of the field. I’m certain that Singletary cuts it back and pops a big run but Gore just hurts the corner and was taken down for a 1 yard gain. I guess I get the message that turning the call over is not ok - but sitting a player like Singletary just seems the old “cutting off your nose, to spite your face” mentality. Can someone tell me what sitting Singletary accomplishes? You don’t like the Gore two yard runs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, xsoldier54 said: It gives them time to think about not fumbling the next time. Lets them know that it NOT acceptable under any circumstances. It's standard practice. If you fumble the football you ain't gonna play much. Period. Obviously, but is that really going to make a difference? It’s not like committing a personal foul. Sometimes fumbling is not preventable and it’s just a result of a defender making a great stab at the football or hitting the arm just right. If lightning strikes twice, how does that prevent him from fumbling? Just now, CaptnCoke11 said: You don’t like the Gore two yard runs? It was a one yard run and there was a massive hole to right but he can’t cut back like Motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Can greatly depend on the defender punching or pulling the ball out when the back is making a move. I think that what he's getting at with random? Devin's fumble here though is all on him as he coughed the ball up untouched. This kind of fumble can absolutely not happen. Sitting a couple series is warranted IMO. He shouldn't have fumbled but watch it closer. 93's hand was in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, WideNine said: Yep, and that mad scramble behind the LOS and reversing the field created the situation where a defensive player dove and prob broke Nsekhe's ankle. You will notice a lot more injuries happen around poorly executed or broken plays. I think McD is trying to send a message to the whole team about penalties and ball security. Perhaps but injuries are a part of football. I don’t think that can put the injury to Nsekhe on Singletary fumbling the football. It just happened Just now, Scott7975 said: He shouldn't have fumbled but watch it closer. 93's hand was in there. That’s why I’m saying that sitting a player after a fumble doesn’t make much sense. In this case, it ended up hurting the Bills offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I’d like to think of it less as punishment, and more giving the guy time to settle down. If I were a coach, I’d be concerned that a guy needs some time to get his head back in the game. Sometimes fumbles come in bunches. As some sort of “discipline”, I don’t understand. It’s like when you see college coaches yelling at their kicker when they miss a field goal, it’s not like the guy wanted to miss the kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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