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Can the Detractors Now Admit Allen's Growth?

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On 11/17/2019 at 2:01 PM, Lurker said:

Do it against the 4th rated defense next week....and then, maybe...

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1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this forum a place to objectively exchange ideas about the Buffalo Bills?

 

Or is it a booster club designed to offer a "Feel good" experience to the most jaded Bills fan?

 

Those are 2 different things.  I think the problem is that a lot of posters think this place is supposed to be the former, but most think it is supposed to be the latter.

 

Perhaps the moderators can carve out a "Kool Aid" sub forum for those who enjoy living inside an echo chamber and come here looking solely for a "feel good" experience.

 

I would be happy to never go in that sub forum myself.  By the same token, I don't come here to spar with that sort of fan.  I come here to objectively discuss the team with like minded fans.

 

If we had an entire sub forum filled with the sort of poster I prefer, my time here would be much better spent.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, teef said:

nonsense.  i know you won't respond, but this is nonsense.  if someone is going to be critical, just back it up.  seems easy...right?  well, heading into the game against miami, you insisted that josh allen sucks, and everyone who doesn't think so just isn't being rational.  you stated josh would be responsible for 3 turnovers in the game, and that the bills would lose.  all wrong.  being wrong is not an issue, but how people approach other members can be.  back up your comments, don't put down other posters, and there won't have to be a "kool aid" subforum.  you want to act like jamoke but don't expect to receive any fall out from it.  try actually engaging people in a normal way.  for a guy who prides himself on his age, you sure post like a bratty kid.

 

That was a pretty devastating take down. Thoughts and prayers to @Nextmanup on the tremendous L. 

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13 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

He's having a pretty efficient year. Let's see how these last few games play out. 

Yup, some really good tests coming up to see where he’s at. 

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His first touchdown pass was his best throw I can remember.  Just a top 5 arm/QB type of throw.  

 

Hi second TD to Knox was good.  It was also further proof that whatever blocking attributes Lee Smith brings into the side are easily outweighed by the offensive potential of Knox.  More Knox , please. 

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1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this forum a place to objectively exchange ideas about the Buffalo Bills?

 

Or is it a booster club designed to offer a "Feel good" experience to the most jaded Bills fan?

 

Those are 2 different things.  I think the problem is that a lot of posters think this place is supposed to be the former, but most think it is supposed to be the latter.

 

Perhaps the moderators can carve out a "Kool Aid" sub forum for those who enjoy living inside an echo chamber and come here looking solely for a "feel good" experience.

 

I would be happy to never go in that sub forum myself.  By the same token, I don't come here to spar with that sort of fan.  I come here to objectively discuss the team with like minded fans.

 

If we had an entire sub forum filled with the sort of poster I prefer, my time here would be much better spent.

 

 

So a quote from you:

 

You are not the first person to draw this analogy and I think it's relevant.

 

Allen gets by, now, on "he's still learning" and "he's young" and all of this.

 

That crap will all finally go away only next year.

 

He'll still be the same player he has always been.  The difference will be fan expectations will have changed and patience will have worn thin.

 

And then this fanbase will start to catch on that weneed to find a QB.

 

Is this how you define “objective”?  

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8 minutes ago, stony said:

His first touchdown pass was his best throw I can remember.  Just a top 5 arm/QB type of throw.  

 

Hi second TD to Knox was good.  It was also further proof that whatever blocking attributes Lee Smith brings into the side are easily outweighed by the offensive potential of Knox.  More Knox , please. 

Fun fact. Knox has 20 receptions this year. He also has 7 drops.  So, do you want the best blocking TE in the league, or do you want a guy that has 1 drop for every 3 receptions? Probably doesn't change your answer, but it is something to consider. 

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Allen played really well on Sunday. Definitely his best game of the season and arguably the best of his career so far. 

 

I credit him for protecting the football through the air over the last few weeks. He's stopped putting the ball in harms way, but he still needs to take better care of the ball when he runs. 

 

The real test is coming up over the next 5 weeks. Miami was a nice win against a poor team (Allen played great, I'm not taking anything away from him), but the real growth will be evaluating him against 4 top 10 scoring defenses in 5 weeks.

 

Over that time Allen will face (PPG Rank on D) the T7th, T7th, 6th, 13th and 1st defenses in the league. I hope he plays well. 

 

We need 2 wins from those 5 games. 

Edited by jrober38
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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Fun fact. Knox has 20 receptions this year. He also has 7 drops.  So, do you want the best blocking TE in the league, or do you want a guy that has 1 drop for every 3 receptions? Probably doesn't change your answer, but it is something to consider. 

I call him Dawson Drops for a reason.  But yeah, it doesn't change my answer one bit.  Smith also leads the team in penalties.  

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10 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Fun fact. Knox has 20 receptions this year. He also has 7 drops.  So, do you want the best blocking TE in the league, or do you want a guy that has 1 drop for every 3 receptions? Probably doesn't change your answer, but it is something to consider. 

Joe Marino said today that Knox has the 3rd most yards for rookie TEs behind both the Hawkeyes. The bad part is that rookie TEs with at least 1 target this season have 14 total drops......yes.......Rambo accounts for 50%......7...

Yikes

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9 minutes ago, stony said:

I call him Dawson Drops for a reason.  But yeah, it doesn't change my answer one bit.  Smith also leads the team in penalties.  

 

The penalties are inexcusable, especially the off sides. The holds have been tricky tacky, and on at least two occasions I thought they were absolute garbage. That said, for almost every good Bills run this year, I can show you the ridiculously good block laid down by Smith. 

5 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

Joe Marino said today that Knox has the 3rd most yards for rookie TEs behind both the Hawkeyes. The bad part is that rookie TEs with at least 1 target this season have 14 total drops......yes.......Rambo accounts for 50%......7...

Yikes

 

Lol. That podcast is definitely why I was aware of that stat.  The problem with Dawson's rank among rookies is that it is like being the tallest midget.  Sure, he is good among rookie TEs, but they have all been super underwhelming. 

Edited by JoshAllenHasBigHands
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1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

The penalties are inexcusable, especially the off sides. The holds have been tricky tacky, and on at least two occasions I thought they were absolute garbage. That said, for almost every good Bills run this year, I can show you the ridiculously good block laid down by Smith. 

I don't doubt it.  The Myles Garrett clips showed him having more success blocking him then our tackles. 

 

It really comes down to the OC to find formations where both players strengths are used (no duh), in less obvious situations. The risk is justified if there's more upside to be had imo.   

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46 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

 

That was a pretty devastating take down. Thoughts and prayers to @Nextmanup on the tremendous L. 

hey...i don't know if josh is definitely the answer, but let's see how this plays out before we call him our savior or say "he sucks".  just certain people's approaches are awful.  

16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So a quote from you:

 

You are not the first person to draw this analogy and I think it's relevant.

 

Allen gets by, now, on "he's still learning" and "he's young" and all of this.

 

That crap will all finally go away only next year.

 

He'll still be the same player he has always been.  The difference will be fan expectations will have changed and patience will have worn thin.

 

And then this fanbase will start to catch on that weneed to find a QB.

 

Is this how you define “objective”?  

exactly.  if you don't follow his opinion of the qb, you're irrational.  it's strange from someone who claims there's rampant intolerance on the board.

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1 minute ago, teef said:

hey...i don't know if josh is definitely the answer, but let's see how this plays out before we call him our savior or say "he sucks".  just certain people's approaches are awful.  

 

Everybody has to plan their flag, man, just so they can later prove that THEY were ones that were right.   

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Why are people who don’t see Allen as the next GOAT haters? Posters say they want free flowing dialogue but only if it is accompanied by thumbs up and full glasses of water. 

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19 minutes ago, iinii said:

Why are people who don’t see Allen as the next GOAT haters? Posters say they want free flowing dialogue but only if it is accompanied by thumbs up and full glasses of water. 

 

Because with every bell curve, you have the median and then the outliers.

 

Not everyone that is critical of Allen is a hater and not everyone that supports Allen thinks he's the next GOAT.  The outliers are the ones complaining about every throw that is an inch too low or missing open players.  Just the same are the people blaming everyone else but Allen when he has a bad day.  It's hard to change someones mind once they have made it up (right or wrong).

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46 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

Because with every bell curve, you have the median and then the outliers.

 

Not everyone that is critical of Allen is a hater and not everyone that supports Allen thinks he's the next GOAT.  The outliers are the ones complaining about every throw that is an inch too low or missing open players.  Just the same are the people blaming everyone else but Allen when he has a bad day.  It's hard to change someones mind once they have made it up (right or wrong).

Exactly my point. 

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1 hour ago, iinii said:

Why are people who don’t see Allen as the next GOAT haters? Posters say they want free flowing dialogue but only if it is accompanied by thumbs up and full glasses of water. 

No one says he’s the next GOAT.  This kind of hyperbole both ways is why you can’t have a reasonable discussion.

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17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I'm saying that I believe he's improving and my evidence is to compare last season to this season.

 

That's what I did in the first set of graphs, and I agree. Here was my very first sentence in the post you originally replied to: "If the question is "has Josh improved since week one 2018?" then the answer is definitely yes."

 

Quote

I appreciate your disclaimer, but it appeared you then used the graphs to reach a conclusion supported by the one with less data.

 

That was my second hypothesis -- that his improvement from the start of 2019 is murkier. I then showed it going back to week 11 last year when he returned from injury, and again, the improvement is much less obvious. It would appear most of the improvement in production happened pre vs. post injury 2018, though his efficiency has continued to rise. It's not about picking one graph over the other as we're measuring different time periods to provide more context. It's also just one piece of the puzzle to answering a loaded question.

 

As I said in one of my other responses, we probably need consensus among smart people -- non-Bills fans -- based at least in part on eye test given the small sample size, and the fact we've faced an historically weak schedule of opponents to date. 

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50 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

Because with every bell curve, you have the median and then the outliers.

 

Not everyone that is critical of Allen is a hater and not everyone that supports Allen thinks he's the next GOAT.  The outliers are the ones complaining about every throw that is an inch too low or missing open players.  Just the same are the people blaming everyone else but Allen when he has a bad day.  It's hard to change someones mind once they have made it up (right or wrong).

Agreed, some folks on this board are taking to extremes .  He's where he is and hopefully  continues to get better.  All this banter is taking away from were 7-3 and hold our own destiny for a playoff spot.

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4 hours ago, stony said:

I don't doubt it.  The Myles Garrett clips showed him having more success blocking him then our tackles. 

 

It really comes down to the OC to find formations where both players strengths are used (no duh), in less obvious situations. The risk is justified if there's more upside to be had imo.   

 

It’s not like we have a ton of offensive playmakers vying for time, shouldn’t be too hard to work them both into the offense. Knox has been dang good at blocking though, for what it’s worth.

 

 

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Everybody has to plan their flag, man, just so they can later prove that THEY were ones that were right.   

 

The anti-Allen flag, made possible by the “Right Josh” brigade and viewers like you. 

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On 11/17/2019 at 4:04 PM, Chemical said:

I mean sure, the "detractors" can admit when he has a good game. I see no reason why not.

 

And yet, forsooth, for some it can not happen

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6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this forum a place to objectively exchange ideas about the Buffalo Bills?

 

Or is it a booster club designed to offer a "Feel good" experience to the most jaded Bills fan?

 

Those are 2 different things.  I think the problem is that a lot of posters think this place is supposed to be the former, but most think it is supposed to be the latter.

 

Perhaps the moderators can carve out a "Kool Aid" sub forum for those who enjoy living inside an echo chamber and come here looking solely for a "feel good" experience.

 

I would be happy to never go in that sub forum myself.  By the same token, I don't come here to spar with that sort of fan.  I come here to objectively discuss the team with like minded fans.

 

If we had an entire sub forum filled with the sort of poster I prefer, my time here would be much better spent.

 

 

You are the Thomas Edison of awful posts.

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4 hours ago, stony said:

I call him Dawson Drops for a reason.  But yeah, it doesn't change my answer one bit.  Smith also leads the team in penalties.  

 

 

That was one of the options I gave in my post draft nicknames thread.:thumbsup:   It was more natural than his hands.  His lil' bro at Ole Miss has bad hands too(but he's a LB). 

 

Still think Bojack is a good ID for Ed Oliver.  When you got a meh name like that you need a hook for a handle.  If Al Oliver had a memorable nickname hitting .300 11 times would have got him into the MLB HOF.   Nobody remembers that dude.

 

But the big one.........Tre White losing that Crest money every day he doesn't embrace "3D White".   

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