Can the Detractors Now Admit Allen's Growth?

[Sundancer]

39 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

He had a good game against the weakest pass defense ever assembled in my lifetime. 

 

They are 19th in pass yards allowed. So unless you were only alive for the first two games of the season, then went into cold hibernation and came back yesterday, you are wrong.

 

Are they good? No, but they are middle of the pack and have improved.

 

But your agenda colors your argument. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Sundancer

[syhuang]

 

[SoCal Deek]

Here’s what I’ve liked:

He’s not throwing interceptions 

 

Here’s what I haven’t liked:

He’s still very wild with easy throws

He’s bee going almost exclusively to Brown (that might be more scheme than it is Allen but at some point look at another receiver!)

[london_bills]

Allen played very well.

 

He had alot of time in the pocket and it will be harder for the offence when he has less time so let's see on that. 

[VW82]

39 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yes. Specifically the "science" behind this poll.

 

"Go ask 10 non-experts what they think about a player they rarely, if ever, have watched. That will tell you the future."

 

Yes that's exactly what I said, to talk to ten people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. Nice try. 

[VW82]

41 minutes ago, dakrider said:

John Elway "failed" until he got Terrell Davis and some great recievers like Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey.   

No QB by himself is going to win anything regardless of his stats. 

 

Also, are you trying to say Allen hasn't played good ?   So Bills won 7 games despite Allen? 
Bills won most those games directly because of Allen.  Bills aren't winning most of those games primarily because of Gore and Singletary. 

Allen may not be a "franchise quarterback" yet, but to say he hasn't played good and that he should be at a much higher level than he is right now is ridiculous.   Allen didn't walk into the NFL being an expert on reading defenses and blitzes, nor was he an expert in hitting guys on timing routes and working the short passing game.  I think he's done pretty well thus far and there is no reason to believe he won't continue to get better. 

 

Elway meets the criteria though. He went 12-2 as a starter his second year and the consensus at the time was that he was an obvious candidate to be a franchise guy. 

 

Bills have won most of these games because our defense is good and because we've played a very soft schedule. I never said Allen wouldn't get better. I said all the franchise guys in the more recent QB eras showed glimpses of being great very early in their careers. So far I'd argue Allen hasn't shown that yet.    

[Nextmanup]

Just now, VW82 said:

 

Elway meets the criteria though. He went 12-2 as a starter his second year and the consensus at the time was that he was an obvious candidate to be a franchise guy. 

 

Bills have won most of these games because our defense is good and because we've played a very soft schedule. I never said Allen wouldn't get better. I said all the franchise guys in the more recent QB eras showed glimpses of being great very early in their careers. So far I'd argue Allen hasn't shown that yet.    

As you point out, Ellway's background coming into the league is absolutely nothing like Allen's! 

 

Ellway was a consensus top prospect coming out of a big program at Stanford where he was an outstanding collegiate football player.  Allen was not particularly good at a nothin special Wyoming program, and the book on him was "raw and likely doesn't have what it takes to succeed in league, but has some great tools including super arm."

 

The 2 players' backgrounds are nothing alike.

 

 

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

He had a good game against the weakest pass defense ever assembled in my lifetime. Try to keep things in perspective here. He still has a very, very long way to go and 1 game does not prove anything. I hope he can consistently have games like that against NFL caliber defenses, but if you aren't at least a little skeptical, you just aren't being realistic.

Not only was that the weakest pass defense in your lifetime, let's remember that it was constructed to be that way on purpose, with the intention of losing games.

 

Absolutely, 1 game does not prove anything, but this board is not aware of this.  Popular opinion here ebbs and flows with the tides and whatever happened in the last Bills game.

 

Most folks here are not realistic and do not want to be realistic.  They want to believe.  Or is that "Billieve?"

 

 

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

As you point out, Ellway's background coming into the league is absolutely nothing like Allen's! 

 

Ellway was a consensus top prospect coming out of a big program at Stanford where he was an outstanding collegiate football player.  Allen was not particularly good at a nothin special Wyoming program, and the book on him was "raw and likely doesn't have what it takes to succeed in league, but has some great tools including super arm."

 

The 2 players' backgrounds are nothing alike.

 

 

Seriously you're still talking about college we're in year 2 in the NFL move on, his college performance is irrelevant at this point.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Warcodered

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Seriously you're still talking about college we're in year 2 in the NFL move on, his college performance is irrelevant at this point.

 

They've gotten to the point of comparing John Ellway (sic) as a rookie prospect to Josh Allen as a rookie prospect. lol

[VW82]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

As you point out, Ellway's background coming into the league is absolutely nothing like Allen's! 

 

Ellway was a consensus top prospect coming out of a big program at Stanford where he was an outstanding collegiate football player.  Allen was not particularly good at a nothin special Wyoming program, and the book on him was "raw and likely doesn't have what it takes to succeed in league, but has some great tools including super arm."

 

The 2 players' backgrounds are nothing alike.

 

 

 

You're the one who made the comparison, not me. The point is, who is the recent example of a guy like Allen who was a little behind the eight ball coming out of college and then took longer than a year or two to show signs of being a franchise guy before becoming just that?  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Like all the Allen fanboys were MIA the last couple of weeks?

 

I’ll admit to avoiding some of the toxicity of the board immediately following the Cleveland game, but MIA? Nope, not at all. Was happy to point out the sky was not falling in the interim. Also, it’s difficult to solidly back up any assertion that starts with “all...”

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

 

They are 19th in pass yards allowed. So unless you were only alive for the first two games of the season, then went into cold hibernation and came back yesterday, you are wrong.

 

Are they good? No, but they are middle of the pack and have improved.

 

But your agenda colors your argument. 

Miami’s defense allows a 105.6 qb rating. The only teams worse are the winless Bengals and 3 win Cardinals.  They have a dreadful secondary. 

[Chuck Schick]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

As you point out, Ellway's background coming into the league is absolutely nothing like Allen's! 

 

Ellway was a consensus top prospect coming out of a big program at Stanford where he was an outstanding collegiate football player.  Allen was not particularly good at a nothin special Wyoming program, and the book on him was "raw and likely doesn't have what it takes to succeed in league, but has some great tools including super arm."

 

The 2 players' backgrounds are nothing alike.

 

 

 

 

I don't remember this as being "the book" on Allen.  Where most had him projected as high/mid first round

Edited November 18, 2019 by Chuck Schick
Typo

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Absolutely, 1 game does not prove anything, but this board is not aware of this.

 

Oh yeah? You predicted that Allen would have 3 turnovers in this game and the Bills offense would have trouble scoring. So I would say this game proved, at minimum, that Allen is better than you thought.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Sorry, you're all wrong, just read in an article that Allen has shown very little improvement and the Bills should consider signing Kap in the off-season. 

[Mark92]

Allen can ball.  No doubt about it.  He tends to be a little reckless with the ball sometimes but so was Brett Favre.  He's a winner and as the saying goes, " Stats are for losers".   I'll take a win over a 300 yard passing game any day.  

[Socal-805]

 

 

Admit to his growth?  Against Miami?  Yes.

 

Let's see how he does against some real NFL team, not just the tanking Dophins please.

 

13	Nov 28	BUF @ DAL	AT&T Stadium	4:30 PM	Tickets	CBS
14	Dec 08	BAL @ BUF	New Era Field	1:00 PM	Tickets	CBS
15	Dec 15	BUF @ PIT	Heinz Field	1:00 PM	Tickets	CBS
16	Dec 21	BUF @ NE	Gillette Stadium	4:30 PM	Tickets	NFLN

 

 

I do hope he is improving - seriously.  

 

Go Bills.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, Chuck Schick said:

I don't remember this as being "the book" on Allen.  Where most had him projected as high/mid first round

 

Allen was acknowledged as a "polarizing" prospect, "high ceiling low floor".  All the analytics outfits of which I'm aware said he was a "joke of a 1st round draft pick" and "had less than zero chance to succeed in the NFL" and similar stuff.  Had him out of the first round, maybe down in the 3rd.

 

Eyeball scouts saw a more nuanced player - some good, some amazing, lot of potential, lot of aspects that needed work.

 

It was generally acknowledged that actual NFL teams who needed QBs but weren't drafting #1 had him in the first.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Sorry, you're all wrong, just read in an article that Allen has shown very little improvement and the Bills should consider signing Kap in the off-season. 

 

Are you f'in kiddin' me?  Link please?

[C.Biscuit97]

32 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

Allen can ball.  No doubt about it.  He tends to be a little reckless with the ball sometimes but so was Brett Favre.  He's a winner and as the saying goes, " Stats are for losers".   I'll take a win over a 300 yard passing game any day.  

There’s a non Bills world were both things are possible. 

[BullBuchanan]

10 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I should have stopped after the 1st five words. Sadly, I didn’t. Really? 30 years?? So the 0-16 Lions and the 1-31 Browns are worse than this years Dolphins team? 

You should stop after the 1st four words of your screen name. It’s far more telling of your football knowledge.

 

Lol. I just cant.