Jerry Jabber Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Going into the season, it seemed (on paper)that the Bills had four good WR’s in Brown, Beasley, Zay Jones and Foster. Jones was shipped out to Oakland due to his poor play and Foster has been invisible this season (except for his catch last week). So far, the only receivers producing consistently are Brown and Beasley as McKenzie, Roberts and Foster have been used as Gadget/situational awareness and have had minimal impact (along with a good share of drops). If Jones and Foster has been producing this year for the Bills as they did last year (Fosters second half of the season last year to be precise), how much more effective would the offense be? While I haven’t been impressed with Daboll’s play calling this season, I would tend to believe if the Bills offseason plan had worked out to fruition with having four good WR’s, the offense would be scoring more points and have longer time of possession. Should the Bills give Daboll another season, assuming the Bills make more upgrades to the WR group in the offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 We need a true number one WR it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said: We need a true number one WR it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense Disagree. we need better QB play yes, we need another good WR. I don’t believe we NEED the mystical “true #1 WR” Edited November 15, 2019 by NewEra 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Their lack of production didn't change the fact Cueboll doesn't commit to running the ball or using his best running back enough. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 There will be nothing wrong with Foster once Allen gets his deep ball confidence back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Can't answer that question just yet . Dabol is a homer from the Buffalo area so i'm rooting for him & i hope he gets this figured out but that being said they say the second year for a player there should be a huge jump for them & to this point in some instances it seems as though Dabol has held Josh back a bit . I think getting something for Zay was a good thing i believe his 1 really good college season was a fluke & that's what his draft was based on & i although i hoped he would be a better player for the Bills i never really took him as they did for what ever reason . I think the talent is on the team to make them better than what they have shown to this point but due to 2 things Allen's lack of experience & Dabol's knee jerk reactions at times to abandon certain things like the run game against the Browns & not utilizing Allen's athleticism with in the scheme has hurt this offense . Dabol is trying to make the Pats offense work here which maybe certain pieces of that O is good but the talent here is totally different & the scheme should be built to excentuate the strength's of the personal on it . More roll out's for Josh or boot leg's what ever you want to call them & even more planned QB runs like they are doing in the Ravens scheme . If Dabol doesn't pull off getting a better showing on the field & they decide to get rid of him i for one hope they give the OC position to Dorsey to keep some familiarity to the system & maybe he can keep the progression of not only Josh's career moving forward but his too !! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Seems to me they were able to get to Josh’s long ball. Not dropping them at s another topic all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Problem seems more Allen than Daboll or the receivers. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, T master said: Can't answer that question just yet . Dabol is a homer from the Buffalo area so i'm rooting for him & i hope he gets this figured out but that being said they say the second year for a player there should be a huge jump for them & to this point in some instances it seems as though Dabol has held Josh back a bit . I think getting something for Zay was a good thing i believe his 1 really good college season was a fluke & that's what his draft was based on & i although i hoped he would be a better player for the Bills i never really took him as they did for what ever reason . I think the talent is on the team to make them better than what they have shown to this point but due to 2 things Allen's lack of experience & Dabol's knee jerk reactions at times to abandon certain things like the run game against the Browns & not utilizing Allen's athleticism with in the scheme has hurt this offense . Dabol is trying to make the Pats offense work here which maybe certain pieces of that O is good but the talent here is totally different & the scheme should be built to excentuate the strength's of the personal on it . More roll out's for Josh or boot leg's what ever you want to call them & even more planned QB runs like they are doing in the Ravens scheme . If Dabol doesn't pull off getting a better showing on the field & they decide to get rid of him i for one hope they give the OC position to Dorsey to keep some familiarity to the system & maybe he can keep the progression of not only Josh's career moving forward but his too !! Agree 100% Especially on having Allen roll out more, bootlegs, etc... 1 hour ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: Seems to me they were able to get to Josh’s long ball. Not dropping them at s another topic all together. I think after all the interceptions had earlier on this season, especially in the NE game, Allen is worried about throwing more INT's, which is why he's been overthrowing the ball trying to make sure if the Bills receiver is not able to catch it, neither will the opposing defense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, yungmack said: Problem seems more Allen than Daboll or the receivers. I disagree with that. As T master stated above "Allen's lack of experience & Dabol's knee jerk reactions at times to abandon certain things like the run game against the Browns & not utilizing Allen's athleticism with in the scheme has hurt this offense." Also, outside of Brown and Beasley, the rest of the receivers are barely having any kind of impact, whether that's getting separation from the defenders, dropping balls, etc... Even the top three receivers on the team have had their share of drops as well [Brown, Beasley, Knox] so it's not all on Allen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons99 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Daboll is trying too hard to push his own agenda, he is not catering the offense to its strengths. That falls on him and not any of the players. Allen is young and raw, making him throw the ball soo much when it is obvious he is struggling is just strange to me. They need to run the ball more to open up the passing game for Allen right now. Edited November 15, 2019 by CircleTheWagons99 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, yungmack said: Problem seems more Allen than Daboll or the receivers. I think it's both. I don't think Foster runs consistent routes in games, which calls into question whether he runs consistent routes between practice and games. And he doesn't seem able to track the ball. 8 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said: Daboll is trying too hard to push his own agenda, he is not catering the offense to its strengths. That falls on him and not any of the players. Allen is young and raw, making him throw the ball soo much when it is obvious he is struggling is just strange to me. They need to run the ball more to open up the passing game for Allen right now. It's legit fair that in the abstract, a pass heavy game was the right approach for the Eagles game and for the Browns game, and they did try to stack the box against us a lot. But I 100% agree with you that it's pushing Allen beyond what he's able to deliver for 60 minutes in a game. I was actually impressed by some aspects of Allen's play in the Browns game. But he's not there yet where he can carry the team (whether or not he ever will be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, yungmack said: Problem seems more Allen than Daboll or the receivers. Is it? Both Brown & Beasley are catching a lot of passes. The drop off is at the 3rd & 4th spot. Production there has been abysmal. And last I looked Jones wasn't exactly setting Oakland on fire where rookie late round pick Hunter Renfro is a much more productive WR. BTW, in 3 games in which he was active at Oakland Jones was targeted 9 times and caught 6 for 58 yards and no TD's. Edited November 15, 2019 by CincyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Since getting rid of Zay Jones and all but benching Bob Foster, the offense has been more anemic than ever. Personally, I think it's coincidental. They neutered Josh Allen during the bye week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think it's both. I don't think Foster runs consistent routes in games, which calls into question whether he runs consistent routes between practice and games. And he doesn't seem able to track the ball. It's legit fair that in the abstract, a pass heavy game was the right approach for the Eagles game and for the Browns game, and they did try to stack the box against us a lot. But I 100% agree with you that it's pushing Allen beyond what he's able to deliver for 60 minutes in a game. I was actually impressed by some aspects of Allen's play in the Browns game. But he's not there yet where he can carry the team (whether or not he ever will be) Yeah, I thought he made some great throws during that game, consistency has eluded him, though. But also, you'd think Daboll would call a bit of a more balanced game. Called like 20 run plays (including Allen's runs, some which were called, others weren't, but he finished the game with six carries, Gore with five, and Singletary with eight, oh and Pat DiMarco got one) to 41 passing attempts. I get that Cleveland stacked the box but they seemed like they abandoned it too early. And it seems like they've really scaled back on the more creative runs and the pre-snap motions and stuff. As for receivers, I think John Brown has played really well. There's also something to be said about the smaller receivers this team has in that it forces Allen to be as accurate as he can with his ball placement since these guys have a smaller catch radius (although Brown is pretty good at extending to make the catch), however, I really think Allen would benefit from a Mike Evans-type of receiver. A guy with size that can go up and get it and has a large catch radius and can bring in throws that don't have the greatest placement, which happens with Allen a few times a game. I know a lot of people want Duke to be that guy but I don't know if that's gonna happen. I'm not someone who believes a team absolutely needs a #1 WR. In the grand scheme of things, they aren't real high on the priority list for a lot of teams. Julio Jones, OBJ, Evans, AJ Green, Hopkins, etc. those guys are all great but none of them are leading their teams to a championship and it's extremely rare that any team is just a receiver away from getting over the hump and contending. That said, it's certainly a big help to have a guy like that who you can count on and go to often. I'm hoping in the off-season that Beane brings in some offensive playmakers, they need it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 I think Allen's lack of ability to complete deep ball has played more of a role in all of this...teams are more willing to creep us closer to the LOS because they aren't afraid of Allen throwing over the top because they know he is going to airmail the ball 10 yards over their head... What's the point of a WB that can throw it 80 yards of he throws it 60 yards where the receiver is at 50 yards? If i was Allen i would spend all offseason throwing deep balls to players simulating game action...if he has to pay people to come out and practice then that is what he needs to do...its inexcusable for a starting QB to be that bad at completing deep passes as Allen is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 51 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said: Daboll is trying too hard to push his own agenda, he is not catering the offense to its strengths. That falls on him and not any of the players. Allen is young and raw, making him throw the ball soo much when it is obvious he is struggling is just strange to me. They need to run the ball more to open up the passing game for Allen right now. Now our coaches have "agendas," like they are some covert agents, here to infiltrate the organization. Reasonable minds can disagree on the best way to develop Allen - protect him or trial by fire. In any event, having a philosophy that doesn't comport with your belief does not mean he has an "agenda." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 hours ago, NewEra said: Disagree. we need better QB play yes, we need another good WR. I don’t believe we NEED the mystical “true #1 WR” true. WR is not the problem.JA is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, Gugny said: Since getting rid of Zay Jones and all but benching Bob Foster, the offense has been more anemic than ever. Personally, I think it's coincidental. They neutered Josh Allen during the bye week. Eh, I think Joshua Tree put some really bad play and tendencies on film vs the Pats and has been trying to dig himself out of it since then. It’s no coincidence we have seen a TON of Cover 1 and Cover Zero since that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 hours ago, mikemac2001 said: We need a true number one WR it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense We haven't had a true #1 since Moulds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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