How did Zay Jones/Foster’s lack of production impact Daboll’s offense

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We haven't had a true #1 since Moulds....

I thought some saw watkins as a # 1? well, when he wasn't sidelined with an injury.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, Tcali said:

true. WR is not the problem.JA is.

 

Really, would any of our guys be a #1 on other teams?

 

[colin]

allen has definitely missed guys or thrown the odd bad ball.  seems to be regressing and to not have the same wide open ability he showed last year.   

 

NE smashed us by confusing allen, overwhelming our blockers, and then knocking allen out.  we still rushed for a good clip w frank gore barely moving that game tho.

 

I have two problems with Dabol.  1:  he chooses not to run the ball, rather than have it shut down.  nothing will help a raw qb as much as that

2:  he really tries to put a square peg into a round hole.  Him rushing gore umpteen times on 3rd/4th and short for nothing, having our barely qualified for an NFL roster WRs running around failing to beat DBs, and having our raw inconsistent QB trying to be tom brady behind our good run and not so good pass blocking line.

 

allen obviously needs to grow up and make the plays that are out there for him, but there is even less evidence that dabol knows what he is doing.

 

i really want him to figure it out and balance the O, but i don't see how anyone can look at this offense and say he's put them in the best position to win.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Really, would any of our guys be a #1 on other teams?

 

Yep, John Brown has played extremely well. He would be a WR upgrade for several NFL teams.

[CaptnCoke11]

4 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

We need a true number one WR 

 

it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense 

I don’t think they necessarily need a true number 1.  Only a few teams are lucky enough to have one of them.  Another WR like Brown would be just fine as well.  Just need a legit threat on the outside opposite Brown.  

Edited November 15, 2019 by CaptnCoke11

[DuckyBoys]

They need a starting caliber 2nd outside receiver.  Also would be nice if there were more short check down type options available to beat the blitz  No idea why were not seeing Beasley a ton more on 3rd down against lbers

[4BillsintheBurgh]

5 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

We need a true number one WR 

 

it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense 

Couldn't agree more. Josh needs that security blanket at this point of his development. John brown is not that guy, and adding a wr better and larger than brown will round out the wr group nicely.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I just posted this in another thread 

 

He's completing 64.4% of passes traveling 10-20 yards, which is good for seventh in the NFL this season."

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

Daboll is trying too hard to push his own agenda, he is not catering the offense to its strengths.  That falls on him and not any of the players.  Allen is young and raw, making him throw the ball soo much when it is obvious he is struggling is just strange to me.  They need to run the ball more to open up the passing game for Allen right now.

 

 

....a fair and accurate assessment.......he does not have enough experience ala his one year stops as OC to have "his own agenda"......you devise based on your personnel strengths IMO........of course an OC is NOT going to turn around a fledgling offense in ONE year...BUT....if a guy shows promise, creativity and command of offensive play calling, don't you retain him or did I miss something?........

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

8 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

We need a true number one WR 

 

it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense 

 

I think another experienced strong #2 like Brown would also be fine and much cheaper.

 

7 hours ago, T master said:

Can't answer that question just yet . Dabol is a homer from the Buffalo area so i'm rooting for him & i hope he gets this figured out but that being said they say the second year for a player there should be a huge jump for them & to this point in some instances it seems as though Dabol has held Josh back a bit .

 

I think getting something for Zay was a good thing i believe his 1 really good college season was a fluke & that's what his draft was based on & i although i hoped he would be a better player for the Bills i never really took him as they did for what ever reason .

 

I think the talent is on the team to make them better than what they have shown to this point but due to 2 things Allen's lack of experience & Dabol's knee jerk reactions at times to abandon certain things like the run game against the Browns & not utilizing Allen's athleticism with in the scheme has hurt this offense .

 

Dabol is trying to make the Pats offense work here which maybe certain pieces of that O is good but the talent here is totally different & the scheme should be built to excentuate the strength's of the personal on it . More roll out's for Josh or boot leg's what ever you want to call them & even more planned QB runs like they are doing in the Ravens scheme .

 

If Dabol doesn't pull off getting a better showing on the field & they decide to get rid of him i for one hope they give the OC position to Dorsey to keep some familiarity to the system & maybe he can keep the progression of not only Josh's career moving forward but his too !! 

 

Haven't paid any attention to the Raiders, has Zay been playing or doing anything out there?

[Ayjent]

50 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Couldn't agree more. Josh needs that security blanket at this point of his development. John brown is not that guy, and adding a wr better and larger than brown will round out the wr group nicely.

The dropoff at WR from Beasley and Brown has been huge.

 

Roberts and McKenzie are just not good WRs unless you utilize them in bubble screens and very short routes that tries to utilize them in space.  You can really see how bad they are at running routes if you watch the all 22 - sometimes they slow down not realizing that they are being targeted, misjudge the ball while it is in flight, or just don't run crisp routes.  Daboll is being very un-Patriot like in not utilizing them at what they are best at.  Last year they used McKenzie the way they should have in the passing game - this year the only thing of note he does is run the shuttle pass sweep.

 

Foster has been inactive and he's definitely not clicking with Allen for whatever reason, but I've seen him misjudge a couple of throws pretty badly.  I like what he did last year, but whatever they had working last year they are not going back to or it just simply isn't working - I don't really know.

 

Williams has played a decent role when he gets a chance - I like his ability to be a big target but for some reason he doesn't get much opportunity - maybe he is just not getting enough separation, but at least he is a threat.  This one is a head scratcher for me, because he is probably the only guy outside of Knox that can win a contested throw, which is especially nice in the redzone.

 

Is Allen to blame for some of this? Sure - if something isn't working everyone is playing a part in it.  But I really think Daboll is the guy that it starts with and you can go from there.  Expecting him to get better may be expecting too much tbh.  He is going to do what he has done in some way and I don't expect him to have an epiphany and morph into an excellent OC over the rest of the season or next, etc.  He's okay - he's not the worst, but they could do better, and they could do worse.

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, NewEra said:

Disagree.

 

we need better QB play

 

yes, we need another good WR.  I don’t believe we NEED the mystical “true #1 WR”

 

 

This. Nobody needs a true #1. It sure doesn't hurt in any way to get one, and if we get one, that would be great. But how many recent SB winners have had true #1 WRs?

 

Exactly.

 

In any case, John Brown is playing very very well. He's fine as our #1. Not a "true #1" as the description generally seems to refer to the top 6 or 8 guys in the league. But he's well inside the top 32 WRs.

 

What we need is for a bunch of things to happen. We need the QB to improve. We need the OL to gel. They've been playing together better, but they have a ways to go. And we could use a bit of an upgrade in talent at WR, another RB and maybe another upgrade at wherever they feel it's most need on the OL. I'd expect a lot of that over the offseason.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 hours ago, Ayjent said:

The dropoff at WR from Beasley and Brown has been huge.

 

 

In the end, I don't think we need to go 5 wr deep, I don't think JA is at the point in his development where that's a viable option. Take the third down with john brown rrom sunday that everyone was talking about. Allen had one read (brown) instead of trying to find the guy who would come open on the blitz. That's where a better catch radius and someone who be open when covered helps JA be a better qb.

 

As far as super bowl concerns, the only way we get near that level is to turn the ball over like we did a couple years ago. Otherwise we're good but not consistently challenging the top teams until Josh can improve enough to raise the level of our offensive talent with his play. I think the development path we're taking is a good one, hopefully by the end of next year he will start to put all the aspects of his game together.

[Locomark]

22 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

We need a true number one WR 

 

it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense 

That is 100% the problem. If Belicheat takes Brown away, what’s left to threaten people in the passing game? That hesitation, while everyone tries to rationalize maybe it could Singletary or Knox, is your answer. 

This team is loaded with role players and needs a stud.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Locomark

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Locomark said:

That is 100% the problem. If Belicheat takes Brown away, what’s left to threaten people in the passing game? That hesitation, while everyone tries to rationalize maybe it could Singletary or Knox, is your answer. 

This team is loaded with role players and needs a stud.

This team NEEDS better QB play.  If Allen doesn’t improve from where he currently stands, he’s not the answer.  

 

I’m not a JA hater.  I love the kid and I think he has a chance.......but he’s currently not very good.

[peterpan]

Foster has been injured most of the year.  He was far too good last year to give up on this year. 

[CLTbills]

I don't know what Zay has to do with his refusal to give Singletary the ball more. Also, has the passing offense really changed that much since the Zay trade?

[cd1]

On 11/15/2019 at 10:18 AM, mikemac2001 said:

We need a true number one WR 

 

it’s been clear from the start of the year and it hurts the overall offense 

 

 

Agree!!

 

I have watched a lot more games this year [Game Pass] and see other receivers making incredible catches on a regular basis. Then I re-watch our games and see Allen's passes bounce off the hands of our receivers with alarming frequency. [????]

 

Other QB's benefit greatly from having receivers pull in errant passes. While we have to pray that our guys can hold onto something that hits them on the numbers - FCOL.