BringBackOrton Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, K-9 said: I still subscribe to the Polian model, with one exception: I’d put a higher priority on a franchise CB over a franchise RB, given the changes in the game in the last generation. I wouldn’t be surprised if Polian has also evolved. Anyway, his order of positional importance as he outlined in the early 90s: QB - for obvious reasons; the most important position on the field DE - to pressure the other team’s most important player OT - to protect your own most important player RB - to protect leads and control clock and take pressure of your most important player WR - to provide a reliable “go to” option for your most important player Substitute that franchise CB for the RB and I still agree with BP. And we should always understand that building a team is never a linear process. By that I mean you should never bypass bluechip talent at one position to satisfy a need at another by taking a less talented player, regardless of position. Exactly. It isn’t “building a team wrong” if you take a star prospect DB over a middling edge prospect. Just now, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I don't understand this comment. If the Bills had, for example, Justin Tucker on Sunday, they would be 7-2. Please google recency bias and please stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 Can we not do the "please stop" thing as if this is some kind of a bizarre contention? Great kickers make big kicks, which makes a difference toward wins and losses. It's hard to mask a bad kicker. I don't have a chance to do the research right now, but I'd wager if you looked back across the league this season, you'd see MANY outcomes that would have been different if a guy had made a kick or kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Build from inside out. What's in the trenches is the critical element. No matter how good your offensive weapons may be, if they can't be protected your passing game will suffer immensely and your backs will continually run into stone walls (there are only so many Jim Browns around). On defense you'll get destroyed time and again unless you can regularly stop the run and pressure the quarterback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I've been giving this some thought. If you were starting from scratch with a football team, where would you begin as GM? Would you go for a quarterback first? Build the lines and go from there? Load up on skill position players and hope for the best? My initial thought is that I'd prioritize positions in this order: OL K/P QB DL CB WR TE RB LB S I think a team with a dominant offensive line and kicking game can get a lot done in terms of ball control and dictating the pace of games, so that's why I would make sure I have those in place before I insert a young quarterback. I could be widely panned as wrong in my thinking, but I'm curious as to what philosophies we have on the board in terms of positional importance. Ultimately, it's about Ws. Long snapper, definitely long snapper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Obviously, I disagree. Another poster made the point that the Patriots have historically made it a point to have a great kicker. I think it's "criminally" underlooked. Kickers often have a greater impact on the outcome of games than any other single position, save quarterback, in my opinion. The difference between a great kicker and a "whatever's left" kicker is probably 2 games per year, I would think. Any analysis can find one data point. Overall the question was how do you build a team. That means how do you draft and allocate free agency spending. So in your world you would take the best kicker and punter (2 positions by the way) before the best QB. This is just wrong and no one would follow such a model. Please show me one team built with a K or P ahead of QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: My initial thought is that I'd prioritize positions in this order: OLK/P QB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Can we not do the "please stop" thing as if this is some kind of a bizarre contention? Great kickers make big kicks, which makes a difference toward wins and losses. It's hard to mask a bad kicker. I don't have a chance to do the research right now, but I'd wager if you looked back across the league this season, you'd see MANY outcomes that would have been different if a guy had made a kick or kicks. I said please stop, because ranking a kicker higher than a QB in positional importance is honestly the most asinine football take I have ever read. It’s so asinine that you can’t even be trolling, because that would be one of the worst troll attempts I’ve ever seen on this board. You are saying Adam Vinatieri was more important to the Colts success over the course of his career than Peyton was. Or Gostkowki has been more important than Brady. And your justification is, “the Bills missed a kick and lost a game.” And you even ranked it even with the punter which is even more bananas. An average team with a good QB and an average kicker wins 100/100 times against an average team with an average QB and a good kicker. So, enough. Seriously. Edited November 13, 2019 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I don't know. If you put Mahomes behind the worst line in football, with no skill position talent to speak of, would he really be successful? He would still win 8 games. If you put the Marcus Mariota behind the best OL in football you wouldn’t win the same 8 games. It’s QB by a lot. That is the only thing that you can’t scheme around. If your OL is weak you can keep an extra blocker, move the pocket, play from the gun, quick passes, etc... If your QB is weak he still has to get the ball every play and try to move the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Every list should start with a QB. If it doesn’t get out of 1970s football thinking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Every list should start with a QB. If it doesn’t get out of 1970s football thinking Yep it is actually something like this: QB something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I don't know. If you put Mahomes behind the worst line in football, with no skill position talent to speak of, would he really be successful? name the Brady Weapons over the years. Name the Bradys OL over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questionable Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 LT C DE DT QB S WR CB RB MLB K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 QB Protect the QB Rush the QB Weapons for QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 QB, CB, DL, OL, WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 My top 11 1. QB 2. Edge X 2 - DE and OLB 3. C 4. CB #1 5. TE - I listed TE over WR because a star TE is harder to find and you can scheme average WRs open 6. Safety 7. DT 8. WR 9. PK 10. RB I would not have a FB on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: 1. QB 2. LT 3. Pass rusher 4. #1 CB 5. #1 WR 6. C But you always take the superior talent where possible. Solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 54 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: name the Brady Weapons over the years. Name the Bradys OL over the years. Gronkowski - HOF tight end Moss - HOF WR talent Welker/Edelman - yes Brady made them better than they are but they got open, made great catches, were durable despite their size, and made yac I agree they have been plug and play on OL for the most part. They have one of the best OL coaches in NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyPercent Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) If you don't have an elite QB, your team is going nowhere. I don't really care about other positions if you don't have the elite QB. Yes, you have the odd SB winning team who got there by a crazy good defense and a lot of luck, but that's rare and no way to build a team. Edited November 13, 2019 by FiftyPercent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Gronkowski - HOF tight end Moss - HOF WR talent Welker/Edelman - yes Brady made them better than they are but they got open, made great catches, were durable despite their size, and made yac I agree they have been plug and play on OL for the most part. They have one of the best OL coaches in NFL. so in decades of player have No OL named 1TE a couple of decent WRs And a HOFer that was going to the HOF without his 3 years in NE but as I said earlier QB Protection for QB Rush the QB Weapons for QB Everything else. also Rushing the QB might actually be below weapons for the QB in today’s quick throw offenses Edited November 13, 2019 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Just Joshin' said: Any analysis can find one data point. Overall the question was how do you build a team. That means how do you draft and allocate free agency spending. So in your world you would take the best kicker and punter (2 positions by the way) before the best QB. This is just wrong and no one would follow such a model. Please show me one team built with a K or P ahead of QB. I'll reply to you and @BringBackOrton at the same time. In my mind, kicker is just something I'd take care of right off the bat to make sure I got a great one. It's not that I think a kicker is more valuable than a quarterback. I would just start with a kicker because that at least gives me some baseline of competence. Admittedly, I realize that the nuances in my thinking might not be obvious. ☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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