jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, whorlnut said: So you can admit you were dead wrong about Winston? Absolutely. He stinks. Edited November 13, 2019 by jrober38 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Mann Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I think he went from bad to mediocre, and yes we should be decently happy with that progress. See my post here: Honest question - how are you determining, "mediocre"? He's bottom 5 in DVOA, bottom five in QBR, and has a passer rating of 81.6, behind the likes of Mason Rudolph, Gardner Minshew, Marcus Mariota, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Kyle Allen, and Mitch Trubisky...and just ahead of Andy Daulton and Eli Manning. I am serious and I may truly be missing it...what evidence is there that he has been an average quarterback this year? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Z-Mann said: Honest question - how are you determining, "mediocre"? He's bottom 5 in DVOA, bottom five in QBR, and has a passer rating of 81.6, behind the likes of Mason Rudolph, Gardner Minshew, Marcus Mariota, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Kyle Allen, and Mitch Trubisky...and just ahead of Andy Daulton and Eli Manning. I am serious and I may truly be missing it...what evidence is there that he has been an average quarterback this year? Absolutely nothing. It gets scary when you consider how many horrible defenses he's had the opportunity to play against. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Z-Mann said: Honest question - how are you determining, "mediocre"? He's bottom 5 in DVOA, bottom five in QBR, and has a passer rating of 81.6, behind the likes of Mason Rudolph, Gardner Minshew, Marcus Mariota, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Kyle Allen, and Mitch Trubisky...and just ahead of Andy Daulton and Eli Manning. I am serious and I may truly be missing it...what evidence is there that he has been an average quarterback this year? So are you trading Josh Allen even up for any of the highlighted players? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: So are you trading Josh Allen even up for any of the highlighted players? I'd take Murray, Jones, Allen & Dalton over him for sure. Not sure about Uncle Rico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: I'd take Murray, Jones, Allen & Dalton over him for sure. Not sure about Uncle Rico. So you'd trade Josh Allen even up for Andy Dalton, Kyle Allen, Daniel Jones and Kyler Murray? I can't see an argument even being made about the first three, that's just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Z-Mann said: Honest question - how are you determining, "mediocre"? He's bottom 5 in DVOA, bottom five in QBR, and has a passer rating of 81.6 I don't care about QBR, I do agree passer rating and DVOA for the season are not good enough. But I'm looking for continual improvement in each quarter of the season and I'm seeing that. I can't speak for DVOA because they don't post week to week stats, but look at his passer rating this year: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm Games 1 to 4 he averaged 69.6, games 5 to 9 he averaged 91.8. Or if you think I'm being unfair with that cut off point, games 1 to 5 he averaged 75.2, games 6 to 9 he averaged 90.1. A clearer picture will emerge as the season continues. He started the season off bad, now he is mediocre. By the end of the year I'd like to see him reach an average level. Next season he'll need to make another big jump. I didn't want to draft Allen because he had so much to fix but he has been getting better. We're going to have to be patient with him. If his progress ever stops we'll know he's hit his ceiling. Edited November 13, 2019 by HappyDays 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 C'mon guys, look at whats happening here! This young QB is being developed by a guy who thought Nathan Peterman should start ahead of him!!! The entire Bills world wants to see Singletary get the ball more and what does this brainiac OC do? Has the young, inexperienced QB throw 41 times against a team that is #7 in passing yards allowed along with the #2 sacker in the league. Meanwhile, "Motor" went 8 rushes for 42 yards against a supposed "stacked" defense with a 5.3 yards per carry average. In the first half Allen had 19 passes, Singletary 3 rushes. WTF! Just pray that this team doesn't get behind in points over the next 7 games! Because this lame OC then forces the QB to carry the team by going pass happy and forgets the run game. He did it a lot last season too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 hours ago, whatdrought said: Any crap about TT and Allen being similar ends with three words: Third and Long. Ok. I'll bite. What does that even mean? Allen may be better than Taylor, but this doesn't make sense. We still suck on offense, but now, we like to turn the ball over as well. That's the difference. Tyrod was better than Josh has been AT THIS POINT. Facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Ok. I'll bite. What does that even mean? Allen may be better than Taylor, but this doesn't make sense. We still suck on offense, but now, we like to turn the ball over as well. That's the difference. Tyrod was better than Josh has been AT THIS POINT. Facts. This is Nonsense and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: So what Jerry is saying is Rookie Allen is equal to or better than Vet Tyrod. That’s actually great news I m o. Not only that , but I would love to see Tyrod play behind this GREAT OL that we had last year and his best weapon on offense being K Benjamin , BTW did anyone hear how great KB or Holmes are playing this year ? Since they were Allen’s #1& # 2 WR’s last year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Putin said: Not only that , but I would love to see Tyrod play behind this GREAT OL that we had last year and his best weapon on offense being K Benjamin , BTW did anyone hear how great KB or Holmes are playing this year ? Since they were Allen’s #1& # 2 WR’s last year Confusion... Tyrod did play with KB as his best WR and a worse OL (Mills, Ducasse and rookie Dawkins). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: I don't care about QBR, I do agree passer rating and DVOA for the season are not good enough. But I'm looking for continual improvement in each quarter of the season and I'm seeing that. I can't speak for DVOA because they don't post week to week stats, but look at his passer rating this year: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm Games 1 to 4 he averaged 69.6, games 5 to 9 he averaged 91.8. Or if you think I'm being unfair with that cut off point, games 1 to 5 he averaged 75.2, games 6 to 9 he averaged 90.1. A clearer picture will emerge as the season continues. He started the season off bad, now he is mediocre. By the end of the year I'd like to see him reach an average level. Next season he'll need to make another big jump. I didn't want to draft Allen because he had so much to fix but he has been getting better. We're going to have to be patient with him. If his progress ever stops we'll know he's hit his ceiling. It would be a big jump if he even gets to average as the Bills are going to be playing teams that have much better defense then what they have played. Patience can only be for so long, if the Bills fail to make the playoffs by next season I doubt it matters. They will be starting over again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Putin said: Not only that , but I would love to see Tyrod play behind this GREAT OL that we had last year and his best weapon on offense being K Benjamin , BTW did anyone hear how great KB or Holmes are playing this year ? Since they were Allen’s #1& # 2 WR’s last year I'm not sure that matthews Zay and deonte thompson are the group you want to brag about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Mann Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: So are you trading Josh Allen even up for any of the highlighted players? Here's the thing...I don't know if I would or not...and I don't feel like that should be the right answer at this point in time! The "right" answer SHOULD be an unequivocal HECK NO by now...and for some of those players, I honestly don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, Putin said: BTW did anyone hear how great KB or Holmes are playing this year ? Since they were Allen’s #1& # 2 WR’s last year There was a point in 2017 where I said Andre Holmes was a poor man's version of Kelvin Benjamin. By the middle of last season I was saying the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Mann Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Nihilarian said: C'mon guys, look at whats happening here! This young QB is being developed by a guy who thought Nathan Peterman should start ahead of him!!! The entire Bills world wants to see Singletary get the ball more and what does this brainiac OC do? Has the young, inexperienced QB throw 41 times against a team that is #7 in passing yards allowed along with the #2 sacker in the league. Meanwhile, "Motor" went 8 rushes for 42 yards against a supposed "stacked" defense with a 5.3 yards per carry average. In the first half Allen had 19 passes, Singletary 3 rushes. WTF! Just pray that this team doesn't get behind in points over the next 7 games! Because this lame OC then forces the QB to carry the team by going pass happy and forgets the run game. He did it a lot last season too. GREAT points. Coaching does not and should not escape criticism. Ultimately I feel like a great QB can overcome questionable coaching to at least be "average" (or an outlier like Aaron Rodgers, be excellent), but I am not sure if we have the leadership in place to get the best out of Allen. I also feel like they aren't THAT bad which is contributing to him being one of the worst in the league. 7 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said: It would be a big jump if he even gets to average as the Bills are going to be playing teams that have much better defense then what they have played. Patience can only be for so long, if the Bills fail to make the playoffs by next season I doubt it matters. They will be starting over again. If he plays even "average" after the Miami game and going forward, I would definitely consider it progress and a "win" for both Allen and the organization. Do I feel like it will happen based on past performance? Probably not, but it is certainly possible that he starts playing better. The next seven games will be interesting. It's time that we learn something about this team - barely beating bad teams tells me nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: So you'd trade Josh Allen even up for Andy Dalton, Kyle Allen, Daniel Jones and Kyler Murray? I can't see an argument even being made about the first three, that's just silly. Why would you not trade him for any of those guys? I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) Well Dalton is an old has been or never was, Kyle Allen is was an undrafted FA for a reason and his career sample size is crazy small, Daniel Jones is a small sample size as well and was widely believed to have been over drafted, Kyler Murray you can make an argument for. Bottom line is Josh was the number 7 pick in the draft and some thought would go higher. He has only 20 games under his belt, and has all the tools to become great. He was very raw compared to all the others who had more college experience at a higher level. He's basically doing the training they did in college in the NFL, and his pedigree is better than anyone except Kyler. In short he's a bigger, more intelligent, more athletic package. Edited November 13, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 7 hours ago, Virgil said: Do with these what you will and Jerry wonders why he was FIRED and Jobless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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