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Offensive Talent

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27 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

There is is Already calling for more assets in a position that they drafted into three times, signed two UFAs into.  And still an issue 

 

If only ANYONE had seen that drafting a small DT from a small-time college program would be a problem.

 

That guy would have been a visionary.

 

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It's offensive, alright.

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2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...NEXT QUESTION: if, IF we do, are you comfortable with the current OC coaching and guiding your new talent?......plenty of fingers being pointed at the WR corp....I'm reading "best WR class in years" here.....if so, is Daboll YOUR guy?.....


No I already am on record for Bills Hiring an senior Offensive Guru to find the Next OC 

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Well if we had a kicker who wasn't slumping we'd be 7-2 and be in the top 6 in the league right now.

 

Last year final four in this league were NE, Rams, Saints and KC.   All of them lost their last game, as did Indy. 

Some of them lost to crappy teams too.     Some with established franchise QB's, a few hall of famers even.   

 

Head coaches Andy Reid, Belichick, Payton, McVay, Reich.  All lost.   Some of them have lost multiple games in row and are sitting in far worse spots than we are heading to Miami as 6 point favorites and then back home vs Denver where we'll be heavy favorites again.

 

To answer the OP, is the talent there?   Sure it is.  Is the coaching good enough?  Yeah, but they're learning too.   Should we expect more from a young qb on an offense with one guy returning from last year?  Maybe, but we move the ball OK, just not dynamic yet. 

 

Didn't really expect to score tons of points this year, I was just hoping we'd be a little more fun.  Josh is like an overtrained dog right now, he doesn't want to make a mistake and get the shock collar so he's a little more timid and hesitant to trust his instincts.   Personally I think a long throw on 3rd down is the same as a punt if it gets picked off.   I'd open it up more, lose the designed QB runs, stop the empty sets and get this kid developing chem with Singletary on checkdowns/screens, pass protection, whatever.   They both need to learn it together.

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2 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Didn't really expect to score tons of points this year, I was just hoping we'd be a little more fun.  Josh is like an overtrained dog right now, he doesn't want to make a mistake and get the shock collar so he's a little more timid and hesitant to trust his instincts.   Personally I think a long throw on 3rd down is the same as a punt if it gets picked off.   I'd open it up more, lose the designed QB runs, stop the empty sets and get this kid developing chem with Singletary on checkdowns/screens, pass protection, whatever.   They both need to learn it together.

 

^^^^^correct^^^^^

 

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6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think Brown and Bease fit in nicely here....we need one more quality guy

Beasley is a nice third down slot guy and brown is a fine #2.  Both have played well and up to their previous standards of production.  Few people mention the execution and mistakes undoing the offense  I agree but there will be much more room for error if they add some explosive talent.  We dont have a rb who can take it to the house and we for sure dont have that WR1 that can dictate how a whole defense reacts and covers the field.  TE they might have something in Knox but too early to tell.  Were basically trying to win a race each week with a 6 cylinder engine and the good teams have a V12

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Pressure is on our young QB now to evolve, lead and start getting this team more point. This was a wakeup call for him. He knows that he has to take his game to another level.

As much as I agree with we are one year away, push his buttons. He’s been clutch before. Would like to see Allen get pressured in blitz sets that he was experiencing during the Browns game. 

You have to sink before you can swim. Let’s eat and get to the playoffs! 

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9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:


No I already am on record for Bills Hiring an senior Offensive Guru to find the Next OC 

 

...sorry I'm not buying a "Czar bureaucracy level" albeit an "Offensive Czar or Czarina"....McBeane has a staff of 17+, with a significant component being NFL execs at the VP of Personnel level and Director of Pro Player Personnel level.....they're the ones recommending players either drafted, UDFA signings or FA recommendations...can't convince me they don't also evaluate coaching personnel who seem to get the most out of draft/UDFA potentials that would fit OBD's offensive philosophy......but the $64,000 question is, what "exactly is THAT offensive philosophy"?..... and WHO is making THAT call?.......

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1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...sorry I'm not buying a "Czar bureaucracy level" albeit an "Offensive Czar or Czarina"....McBeane has a staff of 17+, with a significant component being NFL execs at the VP of Personnel level and Director of Pro Player Personnel level.....they're the ones recommending players either drafted, UDFA signings or FA recommendations...can't convince me they don't also evaluate coaching personnel who seem to get the most out of draft/UDFA potentials that would fit OBD's offensive philosophy......but the $64,000 question is, what "exactly is THAT offensive philosophy"?..... and WHO is making THAT call?.......


I am even fine with Beane making the OC hire. After two shots I can’t be convinced to let McD make another dip into the OC hiring route. 
 

they made mistakes too. Like passing on Metcalf for a trade up for Ford. And yet your QB still has no game breaker at WR. 

Edited by MAJBobby
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14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:


I am even fine with Beane making the OC hire. After two shots I can’t be convinced to let McD make another dip into the OC hiring route. 
 

they made mistakes too. Like passing on Metcalf for a trade up for Ford. And yet your QB still has no game breaker at WR. 

 

...you my friend may have hit on an interesting, VERY interesting question in my view (FWIW).......back up to the "cart (McDermott) before the horse (McBeane" hiring hierarchy...where does control of final decision lie (doubt we'll ever know)"?.....is McD protective of his staff with hiring authority like Wade was?.....can or does McBeane (and his well traveled staff of 17) have any input or recommendations in staff hires or even "O" or "D" philosophies?.....how would they know what players to draft, what UDFA's to consider or who to chase in FA with no philosophical input?.....plenty of unanswered questions from the "outside looking in" IMO.....are we running on "6 cylinders versus 8" because of it?.........

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy

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Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...you my friend may have hit on an interesting, VERY interesting question in my view (FWIW).......back up to the "cart (McDermott) before the horse (McBeane" hiring hierarchy...where does control of final decision lie (doubt we'll ever know)"?.....is McD protective of his staff with hiring authority like Wade was?.....can or does McBeane (and his well traveled staff of 17) have any input or recommendations in staff hires or even "O" or "D" philosophies?.....how would they know what players to draft, what UDFA's to consider or who to chase in FA with no philosophical input?.....plenty of unanswered questions from the "outside looking in" IMO..........


what I can say based on readings. 
 

McD is in charge of Staff and Game day Roster reports directly to Pegulas

 

Beane works with McD for players but does have the final say on final 53. Reports directly to Pegulas. 

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4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:


what I can say based on readings. 
 

McD is in charge of Staff and Game day Roster reports directly to Pegulas

 

Beane works with McD for players but does have the final say on final 53. Reports directly to Pegulas. 

 

 

...interesting.....we could have the deja vu "Wade Conundrum" regarding staff......wonder who wins?......RW demanded Wade make the change in '99 who refused.....initiating the pee pee contest over "you fired me....no you resigned" squabble.....arbitrator agreed with Wade and RW had to pony up whopping 800 grand HC salary owed Wade....wonder what would happen in the Pegula Court if McBeane contradicted McDermott's staffing choices?....

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Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...interesting.....we could have the deja vu "Wade Conundrum" regarding staff......wonder who wins?......RW demanded Wade make the change in '99 who refused.....initiating the pee pee contest over "you fired me....no you resigned" squabble.....arbitrator agreed with Wade and RW had to pony up whopping 800 grand HC salary owed Wade....wonder what would happen in the Pegula Court if McBeane contradicted McDermott's staffing choices?....


I think McD would win the disagreements he was Hired first and the GM second. 
 

I figure the GM would be told to support the HC that was hired before. 

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10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:


I think McD would win the disagreements he was Hired first and the GM second. 
 

I figure the GM would be told to support the HC that was hired before. 

 

...probably right......close mindedness is not for the good of the team IMO...........

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Jackson isn't exactly surrounded by Offensive stars.   Ingram is still pretty decent.  But they will struggle to have a single receiver over 1000 yards this year.  Marquise Brown?  Mark Andrews?

 

Come on....

 

This is a joke right ?    Mark Andrews would be our best player 

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2 hours ago, colin said:

what is super ironic is D's in the nfl tend to be built to stop the pass, so baltimore has a qb who is simply not a good passer, but they just throw over the top and run all over the place and it is producing hard.  

 

How is Lamar Jackson not a good passer?  15 TDs 5 picks 2036 passing yards and a 101.7 rating 65.9 comp %. Just because he can run doesn't mean he can't pass.   I wish we had a QB that was that bad at passing.

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we have practice squad players/kick returners out there running routes for us

 

our talent level on offense is a joke. Beane's whole OL experiment last offseason failed miserably. he thought Brown and Beasley were the only two playmakers good enough to sign, despite our massive cap space. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tesla03 said:

we have practice squad players/kick returners out there running routes for us

 

our talent level on offense is a joke. Beane's whole OL experiment last offseason failed miserably. he thought Brown and Beasley were the only two playmakers good enough to sign, despite our massive cap space. 

 

 

 

Look at what other teams do for WR.  The Falcons traded mulitple picks to get Julio Jones.  Last year they traded back into the first round to get Calvin Ridley.  AND they have a good QB.

 

The Cheats** sign new top notch guys every year to improve their corps and they got Tommy.  the Hawks drafted Metcalf in first round and they have RW. 

 

Chris collinsworth says your WR groups is only as good as your third guy.  For us that's Duke if active or Foster or somebody.

 

NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  Especially when you're trying to develop a raw QB.

 

THE PROCESS is failing in regards to offensive talent.

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58 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

This is a joke right ?    Mark Andrews would be our best player 

 

 

Yeah he would fit right in on this crew, lol.

 

Anyway, he had 550 yards last year with Flacco/Jackson.  Now, with Jackson, he's a better player.   I'm guessing the same would be true with Jackson and, say, Knox (except the Bills OC doesn't function with TEs).

 

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2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

This is a joke right ?    Mark Andrews would be our best player 

And Hollywood Brown is the team leader with 4 rec/gm for 65 yds/gm (he was out 3 games). He and Andrews lead the team with 4 and 5 TDs. I would kill to have those 2 on the Bills.

Edited by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower
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4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Maybe just Maybe Spend your assets on Offensive Talent????

 

In 2019 we added nine new starters on offense and a few other role players.  It's not like they have ignored that side of the ball.  In fact, it's quite the opposite.  I put a (T) next to the ones I see as "Talent".  The others are mostly upgrades from last year.  In 2020 we have $90M in cap space.  I'd expect an elite player to be added to the offense and another on defense (AJ Green/Ngakoue) types.  They tried and luckily failed to get Antonio Brown this year.  What more should they have done?  Keep McCoy?  Trade first round picks for AJ Green, Diggs or Gordon?  Trade a second round pick for Sanu?

  • Ford
  • Singletary (T) - ? (we actually won't know until they play him more....)
  • Knox
  • Beasley (T)
  • Brown (T)
  • Kroft
  • Feliciano (T)
  • Morse (T)
  • Spain (T)
  • Nsekhe
Edited by Rock'em Sock'em

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They desperately need a big talented wr who can get open and win the contested catches. Beasley and Brown are average to pretty good NFL receivers, but they are Smurfs. 

  If they wanted help for this year they should have taken a chance on Gordon imo. Hawks got him for 1 million and he made 2 clutch 3rd down receptions to help them win his first game. 

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3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

 I don't think the main problem is a lack of talent.

 

The offense has shown the ability to march 10+ plays, 70-80 yards and score touchdowns. 

 

It just happens 2-3 times a week, and then we have multiple drives killed by stupid mistakes.

 

 

 

I get where you are coming from.........it makes sense to think that it's not the talent because they are getting some long drives........but I still think it's talent.

 

IMO what we are seeing in the long drives is Daboll is calling a lot of well designed plays that are creating opportunities.................and when they are executing they are moving the ball.

 

But the style is just proving very hard to pull off.   

 

It's a complicated offense/gameplan every week and subsequently too much room for errors to be made and between the mistakes and the constant search for the next gotcha' play on the sheet they can't get a rhythm going.   Rhythm and tempo are very underrated aspects in good offense........especially for a young QB. 

 

And ultimately I think it comes down to Daboll and McD feeling like they gotta' play it this way because they lack natural matchup advantages to just line up and run a small group of plays over and over.   

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5 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

We have one of the worst group of skill players in the league. We have a young, raw QB and McBeane has done him no favors with the environment they've created for a QB here. Does anybody really believe Lamar Jackson would be doing as well here? I sure as hell don't. 

Wouldn't bet on that.

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We literally do not have a tight end.  Our tight end group isn't just the worst in the league it may be the worst ever fielded.  

 

Lee smith.  No threat on offense and a penalty machine.  

 

Kroft.  Injury magnet that hasn't done anything in the NFL 

 

Knox.  Project at best with below average hands. 

 

Sweeney.  Sucks. 

 

Add a tight end to this team and we are much better.  

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