The Athletic - Cover 1's breakdown of the game, more Allen than Daboll. Also adding some C1 & YPP twitter clips

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

 

I had a very long SB conversation about this play...this is 100% on McKenzie imo. Allen needs to look the safety off, which he does, but McKenzie is already looking back for the ball before he Allen even goes back to him and lets the ball go. WR is twisting and turning around instead of putting his head down and getting to the spot.

 

RUN. YOUR. ROUTE

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, billspro said:

They had a very difficult schedule. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if they had 8 wins by the end of the year.

I do think that Cleveland is talented, but I don't think they're well coached and I think they're terribly undisciplined. That's often the determining factor in a league that features so many close games. They still have to face the Steelers twice, the Ravens, and the Cardinals on the road (AZ is not an easy out at all). They have the Bengals twice and the Dolphins at home, but I'd be careful about Cincy - they do not want to go 0-16, that's for sure. 

[Luka]

8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Just like you are doing in your post...cherry picking to cast your doubt on Daboll

 

I didn't cherry pick anything Cover 1 employee. I stated very basic, very obvious things Daboll could be doing to help Josh out and he isn't. Period. That's on overlying theme for the whole season. 

[billsfan_34]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

A lot of this past game is on Allen himself, as this thread shows.

Having Allen throw 42 times vs 13 runs puts him in a very tough spots. Sure, he would like some of the throws back. That said, I cannot pin this on Allen. Daboll abandoned the run yet again after motor had 140 all purpose the game prior and going up against a Browns 30th ranked run D and 4th ranked pass D. 

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

The screen game's been pathetic every year for like 20 years. It boggles the mind that not ONE Bills regime in that time could successfully run them.

 

 

Especially with a guy like Singletary that can hide/blend behind blockers out in space.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

 

I had a very long SB conversation about this play...this is 100% on McKenzie imo. Allen needs to look the safety off, which he does, but McKenzie is already looking back for the ball before he Allen even goes back to him and lets the ball go. WR is twisting and turning around instead of putting his head down and getting to the spot.

 

RUN. YOUR. ROUTE

It's supposed to be an outside shoulder throw, which is why he was looking that way. Allen threw it inside and about 8 yards farther than he should have. Usain Bolt wouldn't have gotten to that one. After 16 failed attempts to deliver a catchable deep ball to the receiver,  the last place I'd look to assign blame is the receiver. 

[billspro]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

The screen game's been pathetic every year for like 20 years. It boggles the mind that not ONE Bills regime in that time could successfully run them.

 

 

 

I agree, Chan was the only one that came close to having a good screen game. It is such a big part of every successful offence in the NFL. I don’t understand why it’s not a part of ours. It is so much easier to play dline when you don’t have to worry about the screen game.

[GoBills808]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

It's supposed to be an outside shoulder throw, which is why he was looking that way. Allen threw it inside and about 8 yards farther than he should have. Usain Bolt wouldn't have gotten to that one. After 16 failed attempts to deliver a catchable deep ball to the receiver,  the last place I'd look to assign blame is the receiver. 

The ball landed about 3 yards in front of him. Are you suggesting he should begin looking for the ball at the 30 yard line?

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Having Allen throw 42 times vs 13 runs puts him in a very tough spots. Sure, he would like some of the throws back. That said, I cannot pin this on Allen. Daboll abandoned the run yet again after motor had 140 all purpose the game prior and going up against a Browns 30th ranked run D and 4th ranked pass D. 

Especially with a guy like Singletary that can hide/blend behind blockers out in space.

This is a misleading stat, and also the Bills ran it 20 times. In the Bills two half-ending drives when they were trying to move down the field quickly, they threw it 17 out of 18 plays.  On the drive in which they took the lead and which began with more than 9 minutes to go, they ran it 5 out of 8 plays. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Those clips are tough to watch.

 

I'm sooooo tired of poor QB play.  25 years!!

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The ball landed about 3 yards in front of him. Are you suggesting he should begin looking for the ball at the 30 yard line?

It was way beyond his reach, but more importantly I can't believe people are fishing for excuses on his deep throws. NFL QBs complete deep throws nearly every game -- it's a basic part of the skill set. He never does, and they're never even close -- regardless of the receiver. Foster is a bona fide good deep threat, and he's been missing him by a mile all season. John Brown has been catching deep balls his whole career until he came to Buffalo.

Edited November 12, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

I didn't cherry pick anything Cover 1 employee. I stated very basic, very obvious things Daboll could be doing to help Josh out and he isn't. Period. That's on overlying theme for the whole season. 

  nice try I am a manufacturing plant manager.

 

All of your responses thus far have been deflecting criticism of Allen and placing blame on Daboll for not helping him out. Do you expect Daboll to make the reads for him pre-snap like McVay does for Goff (we see how good that works)? Could there be better play calling from Daboll; yeah. Could Josh struggle with reads and the game slowing down for him - yeah? 

 

If Josh was able to make some of the throws, his WRs & OL exectued a bit better - it wouldn't have come down the the 3rd and 4th play with 25 seconds left. We were 5 for 13 on 3rd down - those were not all on Daboll's play calls. If you chose to not see Josh's issues as well - that's on you buddy...

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

It was way beyond his reach, but more importantly I can't believe people are fishing for excuses on his deep throws. NFL QBs complete deep throws nearly every game -- it's a basic part of the skill set. He never does, and they're never even close -- regardless of the receiver. Foster is a bona fide good deep threat, and he's been missing him by a mile all season. John Brown has been catching deep balls his whole career until he came to Buffalo.

I am talking about this one play, specifically. And I'm not 'fishing for excuses', I'm telling you what the issue with THIS PARTICULAR PLAY was. 

 

This is a better angle of where the ball ended up. That isn't 'way beyond his reach' if he keeps his head down and runs his route like a competent pro wideout. Again: THIS PARTICULAR BALL was thrown where it needed to be. 

 

 

[billsfan_34]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

This is a misleading stat, and also the Bills ran it 20 times. In the Bills two half-ending drives when they were trying to move down the field quickly, they threw it 17 out of 18 plays.  On the drive in which they took the lead and which began with more than 9 minutes to go, they ran it 5 out of 8 plays. 

Are you counting Allen running 7 times when things broke down and a few designed runs. 13 total runs for 2 backs with one being a relic is lousy play calling.

[Buffalo716]

The modern age has turned everybody into an armchair GM and a scout 

 

Hindsight is 2020 and looking back at things are easy. Josh Allen wasn't the greatest but he wasn't bad. He made a good amount of big time throws

 

Cover 1 always tried to look for everything to make Tyrod look good and always had excuses for him. A 28 year old vet

 

Now we got a 23 year old with actual QB talent and he tries to put the pressure on him

 

Instead of an OC who DOESN'T DEVELOP RHYTHM OR AN IDENTITY THROUGHOUT 9 WEEKS OF THE SEASON

 

QBs don't develop overnight or in 2 games... It's a steady development over years and if you are angry about where Josh is in his development, idk what to tell you because he's way ahead of where I thought he'd be

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Buffalo716

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Are you counting Allen running 7 times when things broke down and a few designed runs. 13 total runs for 2 backs with one being a relic is lousy play calling.

Most of his runs in that game were designed runs - the two TD runs, for instance, and a couple of others. I think two were scrambles. Mackenzie ran one too. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The modern age has turned everybody into an armchair GM and a scout 

 

Hindsight is 2020 and looking back at things are easy. Josh Allen wasn't the greatest but he wasn't bad. He made a good amount of big time throws

 

Cover 1 always tried to look for everything to make Tyrod look good and always had excuses for him

 

Now we got a 23 year old with actual QB talent and he tries to put the blame on him

Instead of an OC who DOESN'T DEVELOP RHYTHM OR AN IDENTITY IN 9 WEEKS OF THE SEASON

I would like a second opinion I respect of the McKenzie throw if you have a chance to look at it...would appreciate what you're seeing on that play.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I would like a second opinion I respect of the McKenzie throw if you have a chance to look at it...would appreciate what you're seeing on that play.

Gotcha buddy I'll take a look...

 

The McKenzie play where Josh over threw him and got hit in the mouth?

[billsfan_34]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Most of his runs in that game were designed runs - the two TD runs, for instance, and a couple of others. I think two were scrambles. Mackenzie ran one too. 

For simplifying things -  17 designed runs vs 42 passes. Just not very balanced and hard to win that way, imo but I do respect yours - ? 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Gotcha buddy I'll take a look...

 

The McKenzie play where Josh over threw him and got hit in the mouth?

Yeah the 2nd and 10 near the end of the third quarter, ball on BUF 43

[Buffalo_Stampede]

32 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

I agree, if we called some timely screens against the Blitz they would have backed off. The screen game has been pathetic this year.

 

They had a very difficult schedule. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if they had 8 wins by the end of the year.

They did call them. Allen strange enough has trouble completing them. 2 things we want to be successful at, screens and play action Allen struggles at.