Anyone else pay attention to the play calling from Seattle last night?

[White Linen]

Seattle was playing a legit defense.  

 

We can't find flow offensively against the lower tier defenses.  That's the issue and the reason at 6-2 and certainly now at 6-3 - we're not taken seriously nationally.  It's also the reason for our own fans to be skeptical.  We know the way we're playing offense isn't leading us anywhere substantial beyond possibly getting a WC.  

 

I see Allen's mistakes but I don't see him as the reason for the dreadful play.  We look completely unprepared to combat what the defenses are doing and personally I put that on Daboll.  

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

While true, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to question what Daboll is doing without reaming into Allen every single time we do it - it's its own issue independent of quarterback. 

We can also have a discussion about where Allen falls short.

Two discussions are allowed. More, even.

Absolutely. However, I wonder if it’s possible that every single OC since Jim Kelly era has sucked. Or, perhaps, that it’s more likely that the QB’s since Kelly have been the deficient ones.

 

Are there more quality OC’s in the world or more quality QB’s?

[K-9]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

SF was completely jobbed in that game. On that third and short play in OT, the RB *clearly* got the first down. It was a terrible spot. 

That’s true. SF, read Jimmy G, also got extremely lucky on that drive as well. The football Gods giveth and the football Gods taketh. 

[badassgixxer05]

I think these calls are just the OC overthinking the play and trying to outsmart the DC. On 3rd and 4 you think the D's plan is to take away short routes and plug the running lanes with 8 in the box. So the OC says im going to throw deep over the top and get a big play for the win. Its a lower percentage play, but when you hit it you are a genius, when you don't it looks like a head scratcher. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Maybe, just maybe, the real difference between an OC that looks good and one that doesn’t is the quality of the QB.

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

 

An offense needs to have a balance of efficiency and explosiveness.

 

As I mentioned in another post, Brian Daboll is trying to recreate the Patriot offense, which relies on efficiency.

To make it work, you need to consistently put together 10-15 play drives without mistakes.  We succeed on this about 2-3 times per game, which is not enough.

The rest of the time, we kill drives with penalties, sacks, turnovers, drops and miscommunications.

 

The remedy for this is to either:

A)  Clean up the mistakes

B)  Make more explosive plays

 

Personally, I'm becoming more discouraged that we can accomplish A during this season.  Nine games in, and we still look the same as Week 1.

Which means we need more explosive plays to happen during the game.  This will require Josh Allen to start hitting on some deep throws.  And it will require us to utilize more of Devon Singletary and less of Frank Gore.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

 

So, tying some threads together.

 

Seattle is a team, like the Bills, that is very much outperforming their point differential/game right now. 

 

That said, for Seattle, it's not their O but their D that is underperforming.  Seattle is 25th in PA/game and 8th in PF/game.

They're kind of the Anti-Bills.  We're 3rd in PA/game and 27th in PF/game.

 

 

 

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So, tying some threads together.

 

Seattle is a team, like the Bills, that is very much outperforming their point differential/game right now. 

 

That said, for Seattle, it's not their O but their D that is underperforming.  Seattle is 25th in PA/game and 8th in PF/game.

They're kind of the Anti-Bills.  We're 3rd in PA/game and 27th in PF/game.

 

 

 

 

Is there a stat out there that somehow captures WHEN the points against are given up?

 

I'm looking at the Browns game as a "blown save," to put a baseball spin on it.

 

Yeah ... we only gave up 19 points, but that last TD drive for Cleveland was a ball-buster.

 

[Tesla03]

the difference is they have a HOF QB and we have Josh Allen 

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

It was just a miscommunication. JA and Brown are usually money on that back shoulder option route. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. It happens. 

If by money, you mean 30% success rate on that play vs a Cover 0; then yes you are correct

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

Just remember with the personnel grouping we had on the field vs a Cover 0 D; there are only a couple options you can run. You then have to make the check at the line (while being mindful of the play clock and not wasting time getting to the line and a play called) and, once snapped, you only have 2 seconds to make the play. You hope that you made the right check, that the QB and WR are on the same page in regards to the location of the pass and the defenders are in the correct location for you to complete it...It's up to the football gods at that point...

 

All this being said we were 5-13 (38%) on 3rd downs; it didn't have to come down to the final drive....

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

7 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

If by money, you mean 30% success rate on that play vs a Cover 0; then yes you are correct

 

I meant the back shoulder throw. I didn't consider the coverage. I know JA isn't great against Cover 0, but I don't know the stats. Where did you find that? 

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I meant the back shoulder throw. I didn't consider the coverage. I know JA isn't great against Cover 0, but I don't know the stats. Where did you find that? 

Cover 1 had it up yesterday; I linked in a few threads. It was a disgusting stat and I'm pretty close

 

We ran this play against Cover 0 10x. 3 completions for 25 yards and 1 TD; Josh sacked twice. Might be an int or 2, I forgot though TBH

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Cover 1 had it up yesterday; I linked in a few threads. It was a disgusting stat and I'm pretty close

 

We ran this play against Cover 0 10x. 3 completions for 25 yards and 1 TD; Josh sacked twice. Might be an int or 2, I forgot though TBH

I didn't find it, but Cover 1 is the type of nut to have that wildly specific stat handy. 

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I didn't find it, but Cover 1 is the type of nut to have that wildly specific stat handy. 

I didn't link it because it was hard to find - it is buried in replies...

 

On a side note, if you have The Athletic - he did a great write up of the game today...

[london_bills]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

That's why we have to be careful to run the right guy out of town. 

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

 

Virgil - take it a step further and go back to the end of Regulation.  The 49ers drive and the Bills drive were nearly identical - with the Bills actually being more efficient.  Both drives traveled 40 yards in a little over a minute.  Both lead to FG attempts that were nearly identical - the difference is SF made theirs to go to OT and we missed ours.

 

The frustrating part is McDermott get blasted as playing for the tie and being ultra conservative and a defensive minded coach - Jauron Jr and garbage like that.  People praise Shanahan and there is a thread about how he doesn’t play for a tie like McDermont- when he did the exact same thing.

 

I get that people are frustrated, but it is not like Daboll is calling plays that no one else is running.  His play calls are actually very much in line with a modern NFL plan.  Just like McDermott is called conservative- when he goes for 4th downs more than average teams, plays a passing attack rather than a strict run based offense, and Doesn’t punt on every fourth down near mid field.  He has gone for multiple 1st downs in plus territory and very rarely punts in that situation.

 

People really need to watch and look at more games to understand the Bills are slowly becoming a more modern team and there are going to be a lot of growing pains associated with that, but in the long run they will be better as they continue to grow.

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Arguing this point would be ridiculous. But, I think we have to have some faith in our second year quarterback, who was always a project, to improve and to learn from these mistakes. A lot of us have been surprised by elements of Josh’s  game that have improved this year and elements that have regressed, such as the long ball. An area where we haven’t seen enough improvement is the quick reads that you see the truly elite quarterbacks get and succeed at. It’s tough to preach patience when you have a team at six and three, but not having patience with a talent as tantalizing as Josh is going to cost us too much. I want him to be great as much as the next guy, and he still may be, but dwelling on the negative’s isn’t helping.

 

Not a lot of patience out there.

 

Daboll and Allen are both in this together and both have a lot to prove.

 

Daboll, with his dubious stints as OC for other NFL teams producing offenses that could not score with no track record of developing QBs. Allen, proving his detractors wrong that he can be an accurate and effective QB.

 

I expected these games, but when they happen I still get bent out of shape. I hope that QB room is a place where they can work on game plans together that Allen feels comfortable executing and I feel that Daboll has to find ways to get Singletary more involved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Another Daboll salvage thread.

 

Niiiiice.

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Is there a stat out there that somehow captures WHEN the points against are given up?

 

I'm looking at the Browns game as a "blown save," to put a baseball spin on it.

 

Yeah ... we only gave up 19 points, but that last TD drive for Cleveland was a ball-buster.

 

 

 

You're looking at it all wrong:  3rd ranked Defense!!