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Virgil

Anyone else pay attention to the play calling from Seattle last night?

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During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

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Just now, Virgil said:

During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

 

It was just a miscommunication. JA and Brown are usually money on that back shoulder option route. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. It happens. 

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Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Maybe, just maybe, the real difference between an OC that looks good and one that doesn’t is the quality of the QB.


Both failed in the situation.  Seattle loses if the 49ers kicker, who someone obviously made a poll about, makes that kick.  
 

To me, if you read the whole thing, it’s more about why those are the type of plays being called today 

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1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Maybe, just maybe, the real difference between an OC that looks good and one that doesn’t is the quality of the QB.

So you're saying we should bring back Orton?

Image result for so you re saying i have a chance picture

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4 minutes ago, Virgil said:

During the Monday Night game between the Seahawks and 49ers, the Seahawks had multiple drives at the end of the game where the were in 3rd and less than 5.  They’d bring our 3-4 receivers and had decent runs on each drive. Moreso, they gave Wilson who can scramble well.  
 

On one of the plays, they ran the same fade route play that we did at the end of our game. Another one, they took a shot to DK deep.  
 

Basically, the Seahawks ran the same type of plays that the Bills were calling that had many of us, myself included, flipping out. 
 

Maybe this is analytics or just the modern NFL, I don’t know.  But I just don’t understand these low percentage plays when the game is on the line and you have other things that are working for you.   Wilson is an MVP candidate right now, so his passes were at least contested on the throws, but still.  They convert on either of those 3rd downs and maybe the game ends sooner.  
 

Either way, it leads me to agree with some of you on here that Daboll does call a modern offense, but it’s not one that fits our talent.  
 

Last night was just interesting to see and gave me flashbacks to Sunday 

 

It didn't seem as odd with a guy like Wilson back there. I think what really went into it though, is the turnovers in the ground game. I think Caroll would rather lose at Russ' hand than Carson/other back I can't remember fumbling the ball away in a critical moment.

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2 minutes ago, Virgil said:


Both failed in the situation.  Seattle loses if the 49ers kicker, who someone obviously made a poll about, makes that kick.  
 

To me, if you read the whole thing, it’s more about why those are the type of plays being called today 

Yeah, both failed but no one is trying to fire Wilson’s OC, mostly because he’s playing like an MVP candidate this year. 

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1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah, both failed but no one is trying to fire Wilson’s OC, mostly because he’s playing like an MVP candidate this year. 


But that’s my point.  Don’t call plays for someone like Wilson.  We have Allen who struggles with the deep ball right now and you signed Beasley for those types of situations.  
 

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Just now, Virgil said:


But that’s my point.  Don’t call plays for someone like Wilson.  We have Allen who struggles with the deep ball right now and you signed Beasley for those types of situations.  
 

And yet, prior to last game, Allen showed that he would mostly ignore Beasley this season. Not sure if it’s trust or what, but he has never been Allen’s go to target.

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4 minutes ago, Virgil said:


But that’s my point.  Don’t call plays for someone like Wilson.  We have Allen who struggles with the deep ball right now and you signed Beasley for those types of situations.  
 

 

Beasley was open on 3rd down. We checked Brown into his route. On 1st, 2nd, or a longer 3rd down attempt, that is the read, and you make the play. On 3rd and 4 given the time in the game, you need to be ready to keep the sticks moving, not just make the standard read. 

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15 minutes ago, Virgil said:


But that’s my point.  Don’t call plays for someone like Wilson.  We have Allen who struggles with the deep ball right now and you signed Beasley for those types of situations.  
 

 

And Bingo was his name-o.

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8 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Beasley was open on 3rd down. We checked Brown into his route. On 1st, 2nd, or a longer 3rd down attempt, that is the read, and you make the play. On 3rd and 4 given the time in the game, you need to be ready to keep the sticks moving, not just make the standard read. 

Arguing this point would be ridiculous. But, I think we have to have some faith in our second year quarterback, who was always a project, to improve and to learn from these mistakes. A lot of us have been surprised by elements of Josh’s  game that have improved this year and elements that have regressed, such as the long ball. An area where we haven’t seen enough improvement is the quick reads that you see the truly elite quarterbacks get and succeed at. It’s tough to preach patience when you have a team at six and three, but not having patience with a talent as tantalizing as Josh is going to cost us too much. I want him to be great as much as the next guy, and he still may be, but dwelling on the negative’s isn’t helping.

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20 minutes ago, Virgil said:


Both failed in the situation.  Seattle loses if the 49ers kicker, who someone obviously made a poll about, makes that kick.  
 

To me, if you read the whole thing, it’s more about why those are the type of plays being called today 

True. Contrary to what that guy believes, there are bad OCs out there. A good one can make a difference. There’s definitely an art to it, and some are just much better than others. Wilson is a superior QB, but even that can’t always bail out a bad strategy. Allen isn’t playing at a level to succeed with a mediocre scheme just yet. I hope he can improve, but in the meantime I don’t think he can overcome Daboll’s lackluster game plans. 

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Remember when Seattle lost a super bowl because they decided to throw the ball instead of giving the ball to Lynch?

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3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Remember when Seattle lost a super bowl because they decided to throw the ball instead of giving the ball to Lynch?

I’ll never forget it. I hate the Seahawks for that and never root for them. 

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25 minutes ago, Mango said:

On 3rd and 4 given the time in the game, you need to be ready to keep the sticks moving, not just make the standard read. 

 

So on the 3rd and 4 touchdown to John Brown that won us the Jets game, we made the wrong play?

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35 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah, both failed but no one is trying to fire Wilson’s OC, mostly because he’s playing like an MVP candidate this year. 

While true, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to question what Daboll is doing without reaming into Allen every single time we do it - it's its own issue independent of quarterback. 

We can also have a discussion about where Allen falls short.

Two discussions are allowed. More, even.

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41 minutes ago, Virgil said:


Both failed in the situation.  Seattle loses if the 49ers kicker, who someone obviously made a poll about, makes that kick.  
 

To me, if you read the whole thing, it’s more about why those are the type of plays being called today 

SF was completely jobbed in that game. On that third and short play in OT, the RB *clearly* got the first down. It was a terrible spot. 

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I also noticed how dominant the defensive lines on both teams were getting pressure from the edge and up the middle.  Made me realize just how far off we are from that.

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Seattle was playing a legit defense.  

 

We can't find flow offensively against the lower tier defenses.  That's the issue and the reason at 6-2 and certainly now at 6-3 - we're not taken seriously nationally.  It's also the reason for our own fans to be skeptical.  We know the way we're playing offense isn't leading us anywhere substantial beyond possibly getting a WC.  

 

I see Allen's mistakes but I don't see him as the reason for the dreadful play.  We look completely unprepared to combat what the defenses are doing and personally I put that on Daboll.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, arcane said:

While true, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to question what Daboll is doing without reaming into Allen every single time we do it - it's its own issue independent of quarterback. 

We can also have a discussion about where Allen falls short.

Two discussions are allowed. More, even.

Absolutely. However, I wonder if it’s possible that every single OC since Jim Kelly era has sucked. Or, perhaps, that it’s more likely that the QB’s since Kelly have been the deficient ones.

 

Are there more quality OC’s in the world or more quality QB’s?

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1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

SF was completely jobbed in that game. On that third and short play in OT, the RB *clearly* got the first down. It was a terrible spot. 

That’s true. SF, read Jimmy G, also got extremely lucky on that drive as well. The football Gods giveth and the football Gods taketh. 

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I think these calls are just the OC overthinking the play and trying to outsmart the DC. On 3rd and 4 you think the D's plan is to take away short routes and plug the running lanes with 8 in the box. So the OC says im going to throw deep over the top and get a big play for the win. Its a lower percentage play, but when you hit it you are a genius, when you don't it looks like a head scratcher. 

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1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Maybe, just maybe, the real difference between an OC that looks good and one that doesn’t is the quality of the QB.

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