MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, K-9 said: Simple as that, huh? Who do you think wins out in a player disagreement between Beane and McD? Who has the final say in Buffalo. I am pretty sure I read it is McD. Just now, dave mcbride said: I think the bigger question driving the conversation is whether he's a good matchup zone player. If he is, than I suspect McDermott will take him seriously. The fall-off in Wallace's play has to be concerning for him. STRENGTHS Premier, quick twitch athlete with explosion pulsing through his hips and feet. Instant click-and-close action to explode forward and attack the throw. Vertical springs to go up and over receivers at the high point. Smooth, controlled backpedal with ability to weave and mirror route progressions. Plays with outstanding body control and balance. Feet are electric. Can overwhelm lesser opponents across from him. Instinctive and urgent in his play. Excels from press, off or zone coverage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Who do you think wins out in a player disagreement between Beane and McD? Who has the final say in Buffalo. I am pretty sure I read it is McD. STRENGTHS Premier, quick twitch athlete with explosion pulsing through his hips and feet. Instant click-and-close action to explode forward and attack the throw. Vertical springs to go up and over receivers at the high point. Smooth, controlled backpedal with ability to weave and mirror route progressions. Plays with outstanding body control and balance. Feet are electric. Can overwhelm lesser opponents across from him. Instinctive and urgent in his play. Excels from press, off or zone coverage. Not putting too much stock in this, but he appears to be having a pretty bad season. Here's Wallace: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/levi-wallace/25445. And here's Hargreaves: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/vernon-hargreaves/10645 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: Not putting too much stock in this, but he appears to be having a pretty bad season. Here's Wallace: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/levi-wallace/25445. And here's Hargreaves: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/vernon-hargreaves/10645 Could be a down year, the fact is they initially in the offseason did pick up his 5th year option Maybe a change a scenery helps either way low risk move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Could be a down year, the fact is they initially in the offseason did pick up his 5th year option Maybe a change a scenery helps either way low risk move I just did some research on him. People covering the Bucs say he's been absolutely terrible this season, and he only played one game last year. The year before he missed half the season. The only full season he had was his rookie season in 2016. Basically: numerous injuries + poor play + bad attitude (the lack of hustle issue isn't the first time he's had problems) = getting the axe. Them picking up his fifth year option is just bad management, which is explained I guess by the fact that they're a very bad organization. Edited November 12, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Not putting too much stock in this, but he appears to be having a pretty bad season. Here's Wallace: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/levi-wallace/25445. And here's Hargreaves: https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/vernon-hargreaves/10645 As someone that watches almost all Bucs games, this has probably been his best season to date. Simply put, he's been pretty much terrible each season of his career. The belief was that he just wasn't a good fit for the zone defense that Tampa used his first few years and that using him as more of a press corner the way he succeeded in college would turn his game around, hence picking up his option. Instead, he's continued to be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: I just did some research on him. People covering the Bucs say he's been absolutely terrible this season, and he only played one game last year. The year before he missed half the season. The only full season he had was his rookie season in 2016. Basically: numerous injuries + poor play + bad attitude (the lack of hustle issue isn't the first time he's had problems) = getting the axe. Them picking up his fifth year option is just bad management, which is explained I guess by the fact that they're a very bad organization. So Very similar stuff we hear about most players. And yet those other player can fix themselves or excel in other teams. Hughes a perfect example. Much like Gordon there would me Zero Risk to claiming him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: So Very similar stuff we hear about most players. And yet those other player can fix themselves or excel in other teams. Hughes a perfect example. Much like Gordon there would me Zero Risk to claiming him. If you pick him up via waivers, aren't you on the hook for the fifth-year commitment because you're basically picking up the contract? I'm not sure, but there is a contractual obligation to pay him that $9+ million, right? If so, he's not going to be picked via waivers by anyone. Do you know the answer to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, Luka said: Wich is crazy to me. Wasn't that the situation with Whaley and Marrone also? Not a sustainable organization model. GM and scouts gotta be able to have more input than that. Except that these 2 guys work well together and may have been a package with McD wanting Beane as the GM here. I think from the hiring of McD that they had always planned on Beane as the GM but couldn't hire him when they hired McD. This wasn't ownership forcing the 2 together. These 2 guys seem to be on the same page when it comes to what they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: If you pick him up via waivers, aren't you on the hook for the fifth-year commitment because you're basically picking up the contract? I'm not sure, but there is a contractual obligation to pay him that $9+ million, right? If so, he's not going to be picked via waivers by anyone. Do you know the answer to that? 5th year Option is not Guaranteed. They can cut him at end of season no harm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: 5th year Option is not Guaranteed. They can cut him at end of season no harm Thanks. I didn't know that. Given that, they'd basically on the hook for about $1 million-$1.1 million (his base is $2.4 million). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Who do you think wins out in a player disagreement between Beane and McD? Who has the final say in Buffalo. I am pretty sure I read it is McD. STRENGTHS Premier, quick twitch athlete with explosion pulsing through his hips and feet. Instant click-and-close action to explode forward and attack the throw. Vertical springs to go up and over receivers at the high point. Smooth, controlled backpedal with ability to weave and mirror route progressions. Plays with outstanding body control and balance. Feet are electric. Can overwhelm lesser opponents across from him. Instinctive and urgent in his play. Excels from press, off or zone coverage. How often do you envision these types of “showdowns” occur in the organization? What do you imagine they are about? Are you under the impression that the only two viewpoints considered are those of the HC and GM? Can you appreciate the difference between the acquisition of personnel vs. the utilization of personnel and how that difference requires to different levels of decision making? The idea that any and all decisions are McD’s to make in the organization is just not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, K-9 said: How often do you envision these types of “showdowns” occur in the organization? What do you imagine they are about? Are you under the impression that the only two viewpoints considered are those of the HC and GM? Can you appreciate the difference between the acquisition of personnel vs. the utilization of personnel and how that difference requires to different levels of decision making? The idea that any and all decisions are McD’s to make in the organization is just not realistic. Just asking Who has the Pull. That is why I think Beane outlasts McD. Just now, dave mcbride said: Thanks. I didn't know that. Given that, they'd basically on the hook for about $1 million-$1.1 million (his base is $2.4 million). Yeah that is about right by looking at his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: Just asking Who has the Pull. That is why I think Beane outlasts McD. Depends on who is pulling for what. And I agree Beane will outlast McD. If Allen pans out, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, K-9 said: Depends on who is pulling for what. And I agree Beane will outlast McD. If Allen pans out, of course. I dont even think that. Beane chose Allen over Rosen (smart) and Jackson (not looking smart). McD Pass on Mahomes and Watson and Rosen and Jackson. So I think Beane will get another shot at finding a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: I dont even think that. Beane chose Allen over Rosen (smart) and Jackson (not looking smart). McD Pass on Mahomes and Watson and Rosen and Jackson. So I think Beane will get another shot at finding a QB We have our QB....there is no reason to have another "shot" What we need to do is focus on adding offensive talent AROUND Josh Allen. Brown and Bease were a good start but more is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, John from Riverside said: We have our QB....there is no reason to have another "shot" What we need to do is focus on adding offensive talent AROUND Josh Allen. Brown and Bease were a good start but more is needed. I have been shaken with Josh Allen so I am not willing to hang my hat on that he is a Franchise QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 43 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: I dont even think that. Beane chose Allen over Rosen (smart) and Jackson (not looking smart). McD Pass on Mahomes and Watson and Rosen and Jackson. So I think Beane will get another shot at finding a QB I don't think it will come down to this because I don't think there's any kind of rift between the 2 where it would have to be one or the other. If the Bills feel they need to make a change, they would probably dump both because of their connection, or they would look at what the issue seems to be (lack of talent = GM, Poor play = Coach) and chose one or the other based on that. Because they have had some success so far, they will get atleast one more year to prove themselves before they even start thinking of replacing either of them. The Pegulas have been convinced that they would need to be patient with a slow rebuild to get a consistent winner and wont make quick decisions on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: I have been shaken with Josh Allen so I am not willing to hang my hat on that he is a Franchise QB Thats fine....but you dont draft a high potential raw rookie QB and change course when your having a winning season. Teams dont do that.....for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Just now, apuszczalowski said: I don't think it will come down to this because I don't think there's any kind of rift between the 2 where it would have to be one or the other. If the Bills feel they need to make a change, they would probably dump both because of their connection, or they would look at what the issue seems to be (lack of talent = GM, Poor play = Coach) and chose one or the other based on that. Because they have had some success so far, they will get atleast one more year to prove themselves before they even start thinking of replacing either of them. The Pegulas have been convinced that they would need to be patient with a slow rebuild to get a consistent winner and wont make quick decisions on them. While Beane gets the players he gets the groceries in accordance with the HC recipe. that is why I wont marry these too together. Just now, John from Riverside said: Thats fine....but you dont draft a high potential raw rookie QB and change course when your having a winning season. Teams dont do that.....for good reason. When he is being coached away from that ability that they drafted it becomes concerning. 1. Either the QB cant handle what they are trying to do or 2. The Coaching staff is trying to put him in a box he doesnt fit. He has alot of the no good enough discussions with TT and I fear we are going to be there with Allen as well Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: I have been shaken with Josh Allen so I am not willing to hang my hat on that he is a Franchise QB So far he has looked like he could be a good starter in the league (like a Marriotta or Tannehill, maybe a Cousin's) but not a Franchise guy at this time (like a Rogers, or Brees). I would say between those 2 levels is one more which would be a really good starter who needs a little help to get the team to the next level (Like a Stafford, or Ryan, or Rivers), a guy who can't do it all on their own but aren't the reason why their team is bad. I doubt he ever gets to the top level of elite Goat though (Brady & Manning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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