How is Sean McDermott like Dick Jauron?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

@SoTier, are you perchance well-acquainted with @BADOLBILZ?

 

I don't think points 1 and 2 are correct.  

-In what world is Going for it on 4th down 2x last week on offense called Jauronesque?  Do you actually remember?  You actually contradict yourself with point 4.  They're stupid because they didn't work, but they are aggressive calls Jauron would never make.

-McDermott is pretty clear that he wants his D to be an attacking D, they just don't quite have the hosses to pull that off while retaining sound run D.  So they fall back on stopping the bleeding. They're running their 2nd string 1-gap with Harrison IR'd, and they need an edge.

 

The "favors undersized defensive players", show your work, say who you mean?  Edmunds is a monster.  Jordan Phillips ain't nicknamed "tid-bit"

Likewise "favors character over significantly more talent", show your work, say who you mean?

 

On clock management and care about offense, fair cop and he needs to step up or he'll fail.

 

 

The NFL has changed drastically since Jauron was a HC.

 

The last time Jauron was in control of a team you could still kill shot QB's and WR's and taking that away from defenses changed everything.   The very next season 7 QB's achieved top 25 all-time passing yardage seasons.    Passing the ball is not even a sign of aggressiveness any longer.   The definition of conservative has changed.    Every HC goes for a lot of 4th downs.   That's not an indicator of your philosophy any longer either.

 

But make no mistake McBeane run the organization in not-to-lose mode just like Dick Jauron.

 

McD coaches afraid to lose games and McDermott and Beane are afraid to take chances with personnel.    

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

Has Josh Allen reached his ceiling as a QB?  If your answer is NO then how can you predict McD has reached his ceiling as HC?

 

One of two things will happen. 

Either, in his quest for continuous improvement, McDermott will realize that he needs to level-up his game management and improve.

Or he won't.

Either, in his quest for continuous improvement, McDermott will realize that he needs to exercise more general oversight and input into play choice on offense

Or he won't

 

If the latter, then he's plateaued.  If the former, than he hasn't

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

14 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

Has Josh Allen reached his ceiling as a QB?  If your answer is NO then how can you predict McD has reached his ceiling as HC?

if you're trying to say McD still has more ceiling by comparing his coaching tenure to a QB a season and a half in to his career then I'd have to say that is a pretty poor comparison.

 

I believe McD is where he is going to remain as a HC, I don't see much more change coming.

 

I'd like to be wrong, but feel he is who he is, an above average defensive coach but may very well be in over his head as a HC?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

One other thing they have in common that you didn't mention is limited talent. When you're lacking there, hard to play differently.  Its easier to build a defense first when you have limited resources i.e. money to spend as players top to bottom are overall cheaper.  Plus I think a tema with limitations would have an easier time to win a few games by a score of 13-7 or 17-13, than 38-34 or some other high scoring outcome.

[mjt328]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

Let me count the ways ...

McDermott plays not to lose just like Jauron.  Conservative game calling and playing for a break to win on a late FG hasn't been a successful formula for winning in the NFL for a couple of decades at least.

 

Sean McDermott is definitely a conservative coach.  No argument there.

Saying a conservative gameplan is never successful isn't completely true.  There are many examples over the last several years of teams who relied on strong defense, and an efficient/conservative offense.  It's probably not a good plan for long-term success, but it has been known to work with  a young and inexperienced Quarterback (which we happen to have).

 

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

McDermott wants a bend not break defense and an offense that plays it safe so it doesn't lose the game. 

 

The league average for scoring is 23-24 points per game.

Our "bend but don't break" defense has kept opponents under that number in 8 out of 9 games this year.  Going back to the bye week last season, they have kept opponents under that number in 12 out of 15 games.

 

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

McDermott's clock management, especially at the end of first halves and games, is mediocre at best and frequently inept as it was at the end of the game Sunday.

 

Fair point.  But if his offense struggles 75% of every game, why would he expect them to be successful in a 2-minute drill before halftime?

 

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

McDermott intersperses his usual conservative game plan with a series or two of stupidly aggressive calls.

 

Hold on.  Is he stupid for being conservative?  Or stupid for being aggressive?

 

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

McDermott favors players who fit his narrow view of "character" over players with significantly more talent who may march to a different drummer.  He doesn't seem to have much tolerance for differences.

 

This is a Buffalo urban legend.  Every coach values character.  And if you don't believe me, then explain why Josh Gordan had exactly ONE team interested in putting a waiver claim a few weeks ago.

 

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

McDermott favors undersized defensive players.

 

Not sure why this is a problem.

This is mostly a passing league.  Which means bigger nose tackles, and run-stopping linebackers are utilized less and less.

 

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

McDermott doesn't seem to understand or care about offense, underscored by his poor choice of offensive coaches and the lack of playmakers on the offense.

 

He's certainly a defensive-minded coach, who lets his OC handle the other side of the ball.  

That should not be interpreted as he "doesn't care" about the offense.

Also, Brandon Beane is responsible for getting the play-makers on offense.  Not the coach.

 

 

 

[Another Fan]

Marrone seems more to me the coach cut from the same cloth as McD.  

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, 2003Contenders said:

Jauron Ball is NOT a bad thing when you have a pretty good defense and are trying to hide lacking talent on offense. To a certain extent that is the measure that McD used his first year here with Tyrod. In fact, Tyrod was meant for Jauron Ball with his Just-Don't-Make-a-Mistake mentality. You could even argue that if Jaron had Tyrod as his QB back when he was here, those Bills may have actually squeaked into the playoffs...

 

This exactly.

Fans don't like watching conservative football.  But playing safe and eliminating mistakes is actually a pretty good strategy for winning in this league.

 

If you really think about it, New England is a conservative football team.  And they have been for the majority of the last 20 years.

They rarely attack downfield.  They rely mostly on safe 4-5 yard passes and runs, while gradually moving the chains.  They don't turnover the ball often.

 

The difference is, New England's offense is efficient.  They don't have frequent penalties, drops or miscommunications.  Tom Brady is deadly accurate.  He makes quick/smart decisions, and gets rid of the ball instead of taking sacks.  So they can amass 10-15 play drives on a consistent basis, and continue putting points on the board.

 

As I've mentioned in several other posts, Buffalo's problem is due to an inefficient offense.  Daboll is trying to recreate the Patriot offense.  But his guys can't sustain 10-15 play drives without making mistakes.  They move the chains a few times, but then get a holding penalty.  They make a few nice plays, then get a sack or turnover.  They get to third down, then have a dropped pass or miscommunication.

 

[colin]

ok, so a couple points and a HAWT TAKE incoming.

 

mcd is a bit like dickyJ, IN A GOOD WAY.

 

jauron had a horrible horrible squad, and he had them competitive in games they had no business being in.  gaily and mularky weren't better, marone had one decent year but was also kinda crap, and rex ryan got what, 8-8, so one game better with a much much better roster.

 

mcd does coach conservative, and it is sad how we don't sneak in points at the end of the half or bring the hammer down on teams once we have a lead, but that's not just about the coach having determination and telling his players to win rather than tie.

 

it comes down to what you practice and emphasize.  you only have so much time during the week to prepare, so mcd emphasizes stopping big plays, taking away the pass without blitzing, and other various sundry that leads to a less than thrilling experience in some ways, but the result is his squad comes out fighting hard and keeping games close.

 

this kinda dull approach has lead to us staying in games and winning games one could argue we shouldn't have won.  all the early come backs, being really tight to NE, and such and such.

 

i will say, he really seems like he has little to no clue on OCs tho.  what bothers me the most is that since last year, we just can't run the freaking ball.  last year our OL and backs were for shiz, this year we can do it, but just don't seem to call run plays.  it's just disgusting.

[Pasaluki]

Right Daboll's plan is to get into 3rd and 3 situations. But in terms of execution it feels sometimes like the Bills are better at 3rd and 10 conversions than those "easy" short yardage situations. 

[Victory Formation]

On the flip side some may say that Josh Allen simply needs to manage the game like Tyrod Taylor and we’re in the playoffs.

[Nextmanup]

McDermott is average to way below average in most aspects of being a HC.  

 

As I have said many times, the one thing I think he does very well is motivate the troops and get them to come out playing hard every week.

 

His in-game tactics, clock usage, and penalty challenges have been between below average and atrocious.

 

I think he would make a very fine Defensive Coordinator in this league.

 

In a word, as a HC, he is "replaceable."

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

McDermott will suddenly become a much better offensive coach when/if it really clicks for Josh Allen

[QCity]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

How is TSW like TMZ?...

 

Nah, this is BBMB quality posting, and the join date confirms it.

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, HeHateMe said:

 

McDermott is scared of his own shadow... dude never plays for points at the end of halves and admitted to trying to just get the FG at the end vs CLE.. he coaches to not lose!!

 He better adapt and change as that philosophy isn't good for long term head coach employment in the NFL. 

 

[FreeMaxB585]

jauron had teams with enough talent to make the playoffs and NEVER did. doug at least has made the playoffs with a team who prob had no business being there

 

doug also seems to be able to fire up his players and get them to play hard for him, none of the players played hard for jauron and he never got them fired up

[MJS]

5 hours ago, SoTier said:

Let me count the ways ...

McDermott plays not to lose just like Jauron.  Conservative game calling and playing for a break to win on a late FG hasn't been a successful formula for winning in the NFL for a couple of decades at least.

McDermott wants a bend not break defense and an offense that plays it safe so it doesn't lose the game. 

McDermott's clock management, especially at the end of first halves and games, is mediocre at best and frequently inept as it was at the end of the game Sunday.

McDermott intersperses his usual conservative game plan with a series or two of stupidly aggressive calls.

McDermott favors players who fit his narrow view of "character" over players with significantly more talent who may march to a different drummer.  He doesn't seem to have much tolerance for differences.

McDermott favors undersized defensive players.

McDermott doesn't seem to understand or care about offense, underscored by his poor choice of offensive coaches and the lack of playmakers on the offense.

McDermott doesn't call the offense. The offensive coordinator does. He's a defensive coach. But he has to take some blame because these are his hires.

 

Let's evaluate your defensive claims. What is a modern NFL defense and is McDermott as traditional and conservative as you claim?

 

It used to be you devote resources to edge rushers. You target big, run stuffing linebackers. You have one shut down corner. You have large DT's who eat up blockers. Traditional defense.

 

In a modern NFL defense you devote resources to the secondary and look to shut down the pass. You employ smaller, faster, coverage linebackers. You seek out interior defensive linemen who can penetrate and pressure the QB. Defenses are smaller and faster. Sacks and pressures are harder to come by because of quick drops and the ball coming out so quickly. So you make up for it in superior coverage and disguising that coverage.

 

So McDermott's defense (which ranks very well and gets rave reviews from those in the know, including Bill Belichick) seems to be a modern defense to me. It has some young, inexperienced pieces, though.

 

As for the rest of your post, I don't see it. I do think the offense is aggressive. To the point that they need to be smarter and more conservative sometimes (IE: don't pass it deep on 3rd and 2, run the ball more, etc.) The offense fails at executing, plain and simple. It's not an aggressiveness or conservativeness issue at all. It's execution and, to an extent, play calling.

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, SoTier said:

Let me count the ways ...

McDermott plays not to lose just like Jauron.  Conservative game calling and playing for a break to win on a late FG hasn't been a successful formula for winning in the NFL for a couple of decades at least.

McDermott wants a bend not break defense and an offense that plays it safe so it doesn't lose the game. 

McDermott's clock management, especially at the end of first halves and games, is mediocre at best and frequently inept as it was at the end of the game Sunday.

McDermott intersperses his usual conservative game plan with a series or two of stupidly aggressive calls.

McDermott favors players who fit his narrow view of "character" over players with significantly more talent who may march to a different drummer.  He doesn't seem to have much tolerance for differences.

McDermott favors undersized defensive players.

McDermott doesn't seem to understand or care about offense, underscored by his poor choice of offensive coaches and the lack of playmakers on the offense.

 

 

 

Can you tell me the way Shanahan and Pete from last night are like Jauron because they made similar choices that McDermott has made.  Such as a last drive to kick a FG at the end of regulation by Shanahan that was identical to McDermotts.  Or ho about Pete punting in OT with about a minute left.

 

Maybe instead of making up garbage and contradicting yourself all over the place - actually watch other teams and see that maybe McDermott isn’t the biggest issue, same goes for Daboll.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

Has Josh Allen reached his ceiling as a QB?  If your answer is NO then how can you predict McD has reached his ceiling as HC?

 

Interesting how Mahomes, Jackson, and Watson will be figured out by defenses causing their stellar numbers to decline/plateau,  but Allen can only improve according to some ppl here. 

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

I don't struggle that much with many of these comparisons.  I wrote a post over the summer that outlined the ways that I wanted to see Sean McDermott improve.  

 

High on that list were game management, level of aggressiveness, and in-game adjustments.  We've seen some mild improvement in level of aggressiveness, but the other two remain sorely lacking.

 

I got flamed by some for suggesting that these were potentially fatal flaws that were putting a low ceiling on the overall success of this team.

 

Seems like this is playing out as advertised, so I'm asking the same questions I thought about several months ago:

 

How does this coach get better with addressing these pronounced deficiencies.  Because all the positiveness, "process", and focus on character and structure aren't getting it done

 

You have to remember the same folks supporting McD in this thread supported Rex Ryan as well, at least around the time of the initial signing and for a while after.

They will blindly support anyone who is the current HC b/c that's what they do.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 hours ago, Tisker A Tasker said:

It's not even close.  There were games where Jauron wouldn't let his quarterbacks throw beyond the line of scrimmage. 

 

 

 

....how about his UNWAVERING loyalty to vet players?........start with Anthony "A Train (a/k/a caboose)" Johnson.......can't remember the game, but Dopey Dickie called the "Caboose's" number three times from the one and ....nope.......in the mean time Fred Ex was riding the pine......and this guy's pressers resembled a wake, serving embalming fluid for refreshments and the "have to look at the tape" refrain 37 times.....Tasker referred to Dopey Dickie's speedy defense as "bugs on your windshield".......