Football Really Is About Minimizing Errors and Josh Allen

[CincyBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why? 

 

Singletary had plenty of space ahead of him and it's a nice 6 yard gain. He should've went OOB. I had no issue with that decision. 

 

Not to mention that IF Singleterry is the explosive, game breaking RB we think (and hope) he is getting him the ball in space along the sideline is always a good move.  I mean wouldn't you want your QB to get the ball on that play to Cook or McCaffrey or Chubbs or Elliot.....................................

 

How many times in that situation do we see NFL RB's make the guy miss or break the tackle and gain another 10 yards?  At worst it would have been a 6 yard gain setting up 3rd & 4 and more importantly getting out of bounds to stop the clock. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Some good comments on this thread:

 

*  I agree with others that the Bills coaches may be over emphasizing not turning the ball over at the expense of making big plays by being aggressive.  On the positive side Allen has learned as he hasn't thrown an INT in 4 straight games and only 1 in 5 games.  On the negative side we may be asking Allen to play with one hand tied behind his back. Look at the deep Balls.  Allen has said a couple times he doesnt want to miss short because then it gets picked.  Only way a QB says that is if that is what he is being coached, so because they coach the conservative safe plays he throws the hell of out the ball and always is long.  This is a DIRECT Correlation into how he is being coached.

 

*  I think McD's basic premise in emphasizing limiting TO's is that the Bills have an elite defense and the first commandment of the Bills O is to NOT PUT THE D IN A TOUGH SPOT.  The problem with this is that our D is not close to being elite.  It's a good D but in no way can it take over and dominate a game in the way that elite defenses can.  The lack of 3 & outs and forced turnovers is a real limitation.  This is what McConservative is, it is never going to change.

 

*  The reality is that for all intents & purposes McD is saying I'm okay winning games 14 - 7.  Well if that's the case you can't B word when your O doesn't score 20 points now can you?

 

*  There has to be a sweet spot where Allen and the O take more chances throwing the ball.  One INT is not bad if you throw 3 TD's.  But then when you look at our skill players who is going to make those great catches we see in every game?  Brown runs great routes , gets open and Allen gets him the ball for some nice gains.  But how many amazing catches has he made?  And who is going to win those 50/50 balls so critical to generating chunk plays?  Why would a defense fear our play action pass when we don't have an explosive RB?  And while I'm hopeful for Singleterry until he busts one up the middle for a 50 yard gain he AND Gore represent nothing worse then a 10 yard gain if a D misplays the run. ALL Data shows this is a MYTH.  You do not need an effective Run Game or an Explosive RB to have Play-action WORK.  So this is just old school coach speak that you cannot run effective Playaction unless you have an effective Run Game. 

 

We just aren't there yet on Offense.  We're in the middle of an offensive rebuild and we'll have to accept that offensive production will be choppy the rest of the season.  Three years and we are not there yet?  Hmmmm then that is on the way this team has been BUILT.  This is a McD chosen and Beane Chosen Team.  Sorry the excuses run out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments and Bold

[GG]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Not to mention that IF Singleterry is the explosive, game breaking RB we think (and hope) he is getting him the ball in space along the sideline is always a good move.  I mean wouldn't you want your QB to get the ball on that play to Cook or McCaffrey or Chubbs or Elliot.....................................

 

How many times in that situation do we see NFL RB's make the guy miss or break the tackle and gain another 10 yards?  At worst it would have been a 6 yard gain setting up 3rd & 4 and more importantly getting out of bounds to stop the clock. 

 

That's fine if it's the only play available. But Allen looked off a better and safer play to the left, when he knew that the pressure was going to come from the right.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Not to mention that IF Singleterry is the explosive, game breaking RB we think (and hope) he is getting him the ball in space along the sideline is always a good move.  I mean wouldn't you want your QB to get the ball on that play to Cook or McCaffrey or Chubbs or Elliot.....................................

 

How many times in that situation do we see NFL RB's make the guy miss or break the tackle and gain another 10 yards?  At worst it would have been a 6 yard gain setting up 3rd & 4 and more importantly getting out of bounds to stop the clock. 

Just another SAFE throw playcall.  That is what you will see from this offense.

Just now, GG said:

 

That's fine if it's the only play available. But Allen looked off a better and safer play to the left, when he knew that the pressure was going to come from the right.

 

Again because IMO that play was Called to Singletary and was going to go to Singltary no matter what, that is what Daboll and McConsrvative have going on in this offense, predetermined throws.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

It is?

 

They will?

 

Aside from wishful thinking, what evidence suggests these two things?

Pretty evident to my eyes that his skill set is much greater.

 

not evident that he’ll figure it out

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's fine if it's the only play available. But Allen looked off a better and safer play to the left, when he knew that the pressure was going to come from the right.

 

How do you know it was better?  Even if it gets the first down there's no way Beasley gets out of bounds and we're only talking about an extra 5 yards here.  The kick that I saw wouldn't have been good from 48 yards either.

 

IMO the BEST decision was to throw the ball ALONG the sidelines to a RB that is your best threat in space.  The failure to get out of bounds is what made that a bad play IMO.

Edited November 12, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Bills are always the only team in the league that coaches the aggressiveness out of their QB because they are so scared of Turnovers. 
 

 

back to the Tyrod Taylor Offense 

MAJ, I'm hating your avatar right now. Next time suffer through Biebs, please

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GG said:

Why is it a foregone conclusion that Allen going back to his gunslinging days is a good thing for his development?

Wasn't that his biggest downside coming out of Wyoming that everyone said would need to improve?

 

It's not.  It's just some folks have the "bit in their teeth" that there's some kind of coaching conspiracy to "handcuff" Josh and prevent him from being his true winning "boom or bust" pick-flinging self.

 

Pedagogically, letting someone make mistakes over and over and then pointing them out in hindsight and trying to correct them is shown to be less effective than insisting they do things the right way even if that slows them down and makes them awkward for a while.    The results over time are measurably superior in several endeavors. 

 

Whether that will work with Josh remains to be seen, but it's pretty clear that's what Daboll and Dorsey are trying.  They are insisting that he make his reads and take open short passes instead of trusting his arm and booming it down the field.  The hope is in time, it will become second nature and instinctive, and speed up again.  Right now it results in hesitation and missed windows at times.  But it's not "handcuffing Josh" or "making him play scared". 

It's was also pretty clear from stuff said in their pressers that Daboll and McDermott don't agree with Josh that fear of INT is what's bollixing his deep ball.  They think he needs more repetitions to make it more automatic in games, and that sometimes it's not on him - it's on the receiver not releasing clean enough or running the route as they do in practice or it's on the OL not keeping Josh clean enough for a fraction of a second longer.  That's all in their pressers if you pay attention.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, ricojes said:

Allen's comments yesterday said it all.  When asked why he isn't hitting the long ball, he says he is afraid of under throwing and getting intercepted.  The coaches are in his head big time, not a good thing.  The Bills got rid of Tyrod Taylor, but they still have a Tyrod Taylor "don't take risks" mentality.

Allen needs to know that if its 1 on 1, give your receiver the chance to win the battle. That's what the great QBs do.

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, the skycap said:

MAJ, I'm hating your avatar right now. Next time suffer through Biebs, please

I am not liking it either.  Think I am going to push the rules of the bet a little bit here. standbye  There went with a Patriots Logo.... 

 

 

Granted it is the one from when they sucked.

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Just another SAFE throw playcall.  That is what you will see from this offense.

 

It was the smart throw.  It's not like the choice was between gaining 6 yards and 20 yards.  It was between 6 yards and 10 yards.  In that case you make the throw that gets you out of bounds to stop the clock.

 

You saw the same thing with Wilson last night.  He tries to get into a lot of 3rd & 4's because they're easier to convert.  In fact I think it's safe to say that on that play most NFL QB's would have chosen to throw to the RB on the sideline. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Not to mention that IF Singleterry is the explosive, game breaking RB we think (and hope) he is getting him the ball in space along the sideline is always a good move.  I mean wouldn't you want your QB to get the ball on that play to Cook or McCaffrey or Chubbs or Elliot.....................................

 

How many times in that situation do we see NFL RB's make the guy miss or break the tackle and gain another 10 yards?  At worst it would have been a 6 yard gain setting up 3rd & 4 and more importantly getting out of bounds to stop the clock. 

 

I have yet to rewatch it because there is only so much wallowing in the losing effort muck I can take but there were two Singletary plays on the last drive that seemed like he had a chance to do much more.  The tipped ball on the screen pass that he luckily did not catch was botched because of him, imo.  When he released into the pattern he did a flyby on the outside rusher instead of making a good attempt at a chip and then a roll into his route.  That was the defender that barely got there in time to tip that pass.  My impression was that there was lots of open space with blockers on the way.  On the 6 yard play where he did not get out-of-bounds I was expecting to see to see him make a stop in a phone booth, shake the defender who had the angle on him, head upfield and then get out-of-bounds.  Both those plays had some big potential.  When the Cover1 stuff comes out maybe there will be a better look to confirm it.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

It was the smart throw.  It's not like the choice was between gaining 6 yards and 20 yards.  It was between 6 yards and 10 yards.  In that case you make the throw that gets you out of bounds to stop the clock.

 

You saw the same thing with Wilson last night.  He tries to get into a lot of 3rd & 4's because they're easier to convert.  In fact I think it's safe to say that on that play most NFL QB's would have chosen to throw to the RB on the sideline. 

 

Good Then they should have a play ready for that 3rd and 4 right, and not forced to Huddle.  Or thy should have called the TO like McConservative does ALL the time for his defense.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not.  It's just some folks have the "bit in their teeth" that there's some kind of coaching conspiracy to "handcuff" Josh and prevent him from being his true winning "boom or bust" pick-flinging self.

 

Pedagogically, letting someone make mistakes over and over and then pointing them out in hindsight and trying to correct them is shown to be less effective than insisting they do things the right way even if that slows them down and makes them awkward for a while.    The results over time are measurably superior in several endeavors. 

 

Whether that will work with Josh remains to be seen, but it's pretty clear that's what Daboll and Dorsey are trying.  They are insisting that he make his reads and take open short passes instead of trusting his arm and booming it down the field.  The hope is in time, it will become second nature and instinctive, and speed up again.  Right now it results in hesitation and missed windows at times.  But it's not "handcuffing Josh" or "making him play scared". 

It's was also pretty clear from stuff said in their pressers that Daboll and McDermott don't agree with Josh that fear of INT is what's bollixing his deep ball.  They think he needs more repetitions to make it more automatic in games, and that sometimes it's not on him - it's on the receiver not releasing clean enough or running the route as they do in practice or it's on the OL not keeping Josh clean enough for a fraction of a second longer.  That's all in their pressers if you pay attention.

 

 

 

I'd like to add that this crowd totally ignores how the defensive coordinators game plan against Allen, where it's plainly obvious that he is a far different QB when he's pressured.

 

The gunslinger Josh's response to pressure is to roll right and throw the ball across his body or to run with it.   That's not a long term formula for winning.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Allen needs to know that if its 1 on 1, give your receiver the chance to win the battle. That's what the great QBs do.

But that is what is coached out of him.  The next time you see Allen throw a 50/50 ball will be the first time since the entire Stop throwing picks thing

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

I'd like to add that this crowd totally ignores how the defensive coordinators game plan against Allen, where it's plainly obvious that he is a far different QB when he's pressured.

 

The gunslinger Josh's response to pressure is to roll right and throw the ball across his body or to run with it.   That's not a long term formula for winning.

 

Right.  So Evil Daboll and Mean Dorsey are insisting Josh not do those things. 

 

Instincts aren't always constructive, and sometimes when you ask someone to process and replace their instincts with new patterns, it isn't pretty.

 

But if he's going to succeed, he has to do it and come through it.

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

But that is what is coached out of him.  The next time you see Allen throw a 50/50 ball will be the first time since the entire Stop throwing picks thing

 

I'm not sure I really like this one any better.  Perhaps it's an improvement.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

 

I have yet to rewatch it because there is only so much wallowing in the losing effort muck I can take but there were two Singletary plays on the last drive that seemed like he had a chance to do much more.  The tipped ball on the screen pass that he luckily did not catch was botched because of him, imo.  When he released into the pattern he did a flyby on the outside rusher instead of making a good attempt at a chip and then a roll into his route.  That was the defender that barely got there in time to tip that pass.  My impression was that there was lots of open space with blockers on the way.  On the 6 yard play where he did not get out-of-bounds I was expecting to see to see him make a stop in a phone booth, shake the defender who had the angle on him, head upfield and then get out-of-bounds.  Both those plays had some big potential.  When the Cover1 stuff comes out maybe there will be a better look to confirm it.

 

I had the exact same thoughts on both plays.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right.  So Evil Daboll and Mean Dorsey are insisting Josh not do those things. 

 

Instincts aren't always constructive, and sometimes when you ask someone to process and replace their instincts with new patterns, it isn't pretty.

 

But if he's going to succeed, he has to do it and come through it.

 

I'm not sure I really like this one any better.  Perhaps it's an improvement.

 

Even his Improvisation in running has been somewhat coached out of him.  Most of the Runs you are seeing from Allen now are designed Runs

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

But that is what is coached out of him.  The next time you see Allen throw a 50/50 ball will be the first time since the entire Stop throwing picks thing

 

To be fair this may just be a recognition by the Bill's coaching staff that they don't have the receivers that can win those 50/50 balls.  In fact they might tell you that there are NO 50/50 balls with our receiving group and that the best we can hope for are 20/80 balls and those are not worth throwing.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

To be fair this may just be a recognition by the Bill's coaching staff that they don't have the receivers that can win those 50/50 balls.  In fact they might tell you that there are NO 50/50 balls with our receiving group and that the best we can hope for are 20/80 balls and those are not worth throwing.

 

 

 

Then that would be on them as well.  Because there are and were options to fix that recently on the cheap