CoachT Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) These defensive tackles are no good. The drought was dreadful, but we had 2 bright spots.. Fred and Kyle. Fred was a good player, but Kyle was great! We have been spoiled with good defensive tackle play for years, and I think we have almost come to expect it. This group we have has been a major disappointment. I’ve gone back and re-watched the games focusing on the backers and d-line. Edmunds and Milano haven’t been perfect but they are good enough. These tackles simply cannot get off blocks. Here is a brief breakdown of what I’ve seen. Star Wow he’s bad! He comes off the line ok, but stops driving his feet and has a terrible habit of allowing his pads to be turned sideways. For a big guy he doesn’t seem that strong and gets moved fairly easily. I guess I just don’t see what they see, definitely not a starter. Oliver This has been discussed. Still a rookie, but he looks out of place. He either needs to add weight to play tackle or lose some and play end. Maybe a DE in a 3-4. I can also see him being like a James Harrison. Definitely a great athlete and a decent pass rusher right now. I’m still optimistic but….. Jordan Phillips Our best guy so far, but maybe a little over-hyped because of the sacks. Lacks the consistency to get too excited about. Pad level is often too high, he gets away with it because of his size. Harrison Phillips I got him as our 2nd best guy. Like Jordan he also plays with pad level too high(worst than Jordan) but unlike Jordan lacks the size to get away with it. He is actually pretty strong and has good instincts. Can see him developing into a top DT but he’s not there yet. Hopefully he’s recovering well. Lorenzo You may have notices we line Zo up in the DT 3-tech spot on passing downs. I think this tells you something about our tackles. The results haven’t been there. I love Zo but I can’t help but feel that we always play him out of position. He exploded on the scene primarily as an edge rusher. But we have been using him either as an off the line LB or a DT. Peko was the worst one, but he’s gone. Jury is still out on the new guy Taylor #96, nothing really jumped out at me. Overall they all give pretty good effort and seem to be “process guys”. Jordan and Harrison would make good backups, but have been clearly better than Star and Oliver, so it’s puzzling why Star and Oliver were the starters. Hopefully the new guy is good but I’m losing faith in this staff and their ability to scout and coach defensive tackles. Edited November 7, 2019 by CoachT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I appreciate what you are analyzing, but be prepared to receive some serious rebuttal - especially about Star L. and Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 IN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I thought the simple answer to the problem is our guys don't tackle their guys fast enough. McDermott should tell them to do that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Just now, ColoradoBills said: I thought the simple answer to the problem is our guys don't tackle their guys fast enough. McDermott should tell them to do that. And stay in their run fits..... be gap responsible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 So our entire D line sucks? Just trying to clarify. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachT Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, TroutDog said: So our entire D line sucks? Just trying to clarify. ? I think our ends are ok. Hughes is good, but is double teamed all day and has never been a double team beater. Again I think Zo would be more help playing end/edge rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, CoachT said: I think our ends are ok. Hughes is good, but is double teamed all day and has never been a double team beater. Again I think Zo would be more help playing end/edge rusher. I got you. When I read the talking heads who review the All 22 (I don’t), they come up with a decidedly different opinion. In the game last week the issue was fixed at half so, to me, it makes some of your takes dubious. I do appreciate the time invested, though! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 OP - what experience are you bringing to the table to enlighten us with such analysis? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17islongenough Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 How are you going to throw Harrison Phillips under the bus. Run defense was better when he was playing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I thought the simple answer to the problem is our guys don't tackle their guys fast enough. McDermott should tell them to do that. The Lord must first tell McD.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 If your analysis is correct, I wouldn't call it a simple problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachT Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, 17islongenough said: How are you going to throw Harrison Phillips under the bus. Run defense was better when he was playing I was actually very interested to see if he was the difference. He's just average right now IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 OP. You forgot about the disgraced El Capitan we shipped of to Jax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, CoachT said: These defensive tackles are no good. The drought was dreadful, but we had 2 bright spots.. Fred and Kyle. Fred was a good player, but Kyle was great! We have been spoiled with good defensive tackle play for years, and I think we have almost come to expect it. This group we have has been a major disappointment. I’ve gone back and re-watched the games focusing on the backers and d-line. Edmunds and Milano haven’t been perfect but they are good enough. These tackles simply cannot get off blocks. Here is a brief breakdown of what I’ve seen. Star Wow he’s bad! He comes off the line ok, but stops driving his feet and has a terrible habit of allowing his pads to be turned sideways. For a big guy he doesn’t seem that strong and gets moved fairly easily. I guess I just don’t see what they see, definitely not a starter. Oliver This has been discussed. Still a rookie, but he looks out of place. He either needs to add weight to play tackle or lose some and play end. Maybe a DE in a 3-4. I can also see him being like a James Harrison. Definitely a great athlete and a decent pass rusher right now. I’m still optimistic but….. Jordan Phillips Our best guy so far, but maybe a little over-hyped because of the sacks. Lacks the consistency to get too excited about. Pad level is often too high, he gets away with it because of his size. Harrison Phillips I got him as our 2nd best guy. Like Jordan he also plays with pad level too high(worst than Jordan) but unlike Jordan lacks the size to get away with it. He is actually pretty strong and has good instincts. Can see him developing into a top DT but he’s not there yet. Hopefully he’s recovering well. Lorenzo You may have notices we line Zo up in the DT 3-tech spot on passing downs. I think this tells you something about our tackles. The results haven’t been there. I love Zo but I can’t help but feel that we always play him out of position. He exploded on the scene primarily as an edge rusher. But we have been using him either as an off the line LB or a DT. Peko was the worst one, but he’s gone. Jury is still out on the new guy Taylor #96, nothing really jumped out at me. Overall they all give pretty good effort and seem to be “process guys”. Jordan and Harrison would make good backups, but have been clearly better than Star and Oliver, so it’s puzzling why Star and Oliver were the starters. Hopefully the new guy is good but I’m losing faith in this staff and their ability to scout and coach defensive tackles. It's my understanding that our DTs job is to stay in their gaps and clog up the o-line to make sure they can't get to the LBs on the 2nd level, not shed blocks to try and make a play. We play gap control team defense. When everyone holds their gap there's nowhere for the RB to go. In your research did you find what adjustments we made in games? Last week AP ran for over 100 in the 1st half. We shut him down in the 2nd. Against the Giants Barkley ran for like 70 on the 1st drive then shut him down too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachT Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said: It's my understanding that our DTs job is to stay in their gaps and clog up the o-line to make sure they can't get to the LBs on the 2nd level, not shed blocks to try and make a play. We play gap control team defense. When everyone holds their gap there's nowhere for the RB to go. In your research did you find what adjustments we made in games? Last week AP ran for over 100 in the 1st half. We shut him down in the 2nd. Against the Giants Barkley ran for like 70 on the 1st drive then shut him down too. You are right. Some defenses like Schwarts' have the D-line always attacking. We use our guys to eat up blocks so our backers can fly to the ball. But every defense is a gap crontrol defense. And no matter what defense you run, you can's have guys being moved off their spot and not shedding blocks. I teach my guys to hold the patch of grass that's in their gap. Can't get moved back or sideways, Have to dominate the LOS. I was focusing more on individual players than scheme or what wen't wrong. But from what I seen, it was simply guys hitting the wrong gap and being moved out off their spot. There were a few plays that first half where we clearly didn't have a body in the gap. Tough to say where it went wrong without knowing the play called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 40 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: L Bell, S Barkley and J Mixon all had same opportunity against this defensive front. Tell me Coach, what was different from then to now? And how would you fix this horrible defense? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 It’s entertaining to read “the answer “‘to our problem threads, invariably the op turns out to be wrong, mostly because in their thoughts the team D line scheme is not what they would use, and then critique line play when they don’t know what the line assignments are or what the scheme is intended to do/ achieve, jmo. Must be a public forum... Go Bills!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 54 minutes ago, CoachT said: These defensive tackles are no good. The drought was dreadful, but we had 2 bright spots.. Fred and Kyle. Fred was a good player, but Kyle was great! We have been spoiled with good defensive tackle play for years, and I think we have almost come to expect it. This group we have has been a major disappointment. I’ve gone back and re-watched the games focusing on the backers and d-line. Edmunds and Milano haven’t been perfect but they are good enough. These tackles simply cannot get off blocks. Here is a brief breakdown of what I’ve seen. Star Wow he’s bad! He comes off the line ok, but stops driving his feet and has a terrible habit of allowing his pads to be turned sideways. For a big guy he doesn’t seem that strong and gets moved fairly easily. I guess I just don’t see what they see, definitely not a starter. Oliver This has been discussed. Still a rookie, but he looks out of place. He either needs to add weight to play tackle or lose some and play end. Maybe a DE in a 3-4. I can also see him being like a James Harrison. Definitely a great athlete and a decent pass rusher right now. I’m still optimistic but….. Jordan Phillips Our best guy so far, but maybe a little over-hyped because of the sacks. Lacks the consistency to get too excited about. Pad level is often too high, he gets away with it because of his size. Harrison Phillips I got him as our 2nd best guy. Like Jordan he also plays with pad level too high(worst than Jordan) but unlike Jordan lacks the size to get away with it. He is actually pretty strong and has good instincts. Can see him developing into a top DT but he’s not there yet. Hopefully he’s recovering well. Lorenzo You may have notices we line Zo up in the DT 3-tech spot on passing downs. I think this tells you something about our tackles. The results haven’t been there. I love Zo but I can’t help but feel that we always play him out of position. He exploded on the scene primarily as an edge rusher. But we have been using him either as an off the line LB or a DT. Peko was the worst one, but he’s gone. Jury is still out on the new guy Taylor #96, nothing really jumped out at me. Overall they all give pretty good effort and seem to be “process guys”. Jordan and Harrison would make good backups, but have been clearly better than Star and Oliver, so it’s puzzling why Star and Oliver were the starters. Hopefully the new guy is good but I’m losing faith in this staff and their ability to scout and coach defensive tackles. Think about it; McBeane are fully invested in those 2 as "their guys" and they are going to get every chance to succeed...Oliver will get more chances than he probably deserves. It's all part of the politics of who plays and who doesn't. Look how long they tried to make Nate work or Zay Jones for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachT Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, r00tabaga said: L Bell, S Barkley and J Mixon all had same opportunity against this defensive front. Tell me Coach, what was different from then to now? And how would you fix this horrible defense? You are weirdly defensive over something you have no control over .. 1. Just because we stopped some guys doesn't mean the tackles played well. 2. I never said our defense is horrible, I think we have elite DBs and good coaches. I already mentioned I like the linebackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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