SCBills Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Still didn't change the fact that the Bills D is still struggling to stop the run. But then again I kind of expected AP to have a good game anyways.So hopefully the run D will improve from here on out. I don't know what we did in the second half, or if it's sustainable against a team without a rookie QB in his first start, but it was dramatic how much better they were against the run after halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: It didn't. We played bigger in the middle and still got gashed for 10 ypc from Peterson. I don't know what's going on but they have to fix it very quickly. It’s not that complicated. The inside run defense is flawed. The space eaters up front aren’t eating up enough space and our linebackers are getting caught up in the crashing waves of the ‘uneaten’ offensive linemen instead of riding over the top of them to meet the running back in the hole. IMO the remedy, given our personnel, is to teach a more slanting defensive strategy in which our front seven slice across the play instead of trying to meet it head on. 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Just watch the ***** game.? It's not that complicated. KEY IN ON THESE GUYS. Watch Edmunds. Watch Star. Edmunds consistently takes the wrong angle, misses tackles, struggles to disengage blocks, and is late to plays. Star essentially engages his block and does absolutely nothing outside of that. Dude has no idea where the ball is. Spot on! Nobody’s a bigger Bills fan than me but the problem is obvious! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: This. On their second drive he collapsed the pocket again on a 2nd and 6 forcing an errant throw and an incompletion. He also came in (with Taylor) at the end of their second long drive (when it had been Phillips and Star all the way down the field) and had two consecutive assisted tackles at the line on two back to back run plays. In fact that drive only stalled when Phillips and Star were rotated out and Taylor and Oliver came in fresh. He might have played 18 snaps yesterday but there were 4 actual impact plays in those 18 snaps. They took him out because they are trying to get bigger bodies in against the run - but I maintain the biggest problem in the run game is gap discipline at the 2nd level. I just rewatched and it looked like blame for run was pretty well distributed. A play or two where the DL got pushed back pretty good, a play where Edmunds got lost on the cutback and taken out of the play, a play where AP just wasn’t tackled and brought to the ground surrounded by defenders, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Just watch the ***** game.? It's not that complicated. KEY IN ON THESE GUYS. Watch Edmunds. Watch Star. Edmunds consistently takes the wrong angle, misses tackles, struggles to disengage blocks, and is late to plays. Star essentially engages his block and does absolutely nothing outside of that. Dude has no idea where the ball is. We told me to watch the "tape" earlier now we can breakdown the entire game in just a broadcast view? You also told me that you've watched enough film to know you're 100% right.....are you now admitting you haven't watched ANY FILM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SCBills said: I don't know what we did in the second half, or if it's sustainable against a team without a rookie QB in his first start, but it was dramatic how much better they were against the run after halftime. Yes it was better, but you would think they would know the Skins were going to run the ball A LOT especially with the rookie starting and could not stop it in the 1st half.I'm glad they got it handled better in the 2nd half. But I would like to see them not get gashed like that in the 1st half when it's pretty obvious that's their game plan to help the rookie out. But again as I stated earlier, it was AP. I had a feeling he was going to play well. Edited November 4, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I think I predicted 4 sacks and struggle in the run game. For the first four weeks he was better against the run than I thought he would be. DT is the hardest position to transition to NFL although OT is catching up. We won't be able to judge Oliver until mid way through 2021. I suspect he will be worse as the season wears on. I'm a bit biased as I was against picking Oliver. Maybe a few less snaps per game will make him a little more productive towards the end of the season. All that said, the problem on this team is Murphy and Lorax. Zero pass rush from either. It was the biggest issue in training camp and it is as bad as I predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 So wait a minute. All the horrible DT play in the first half can't be on Star alone, if Phillips was playing so much. Can the snap count totals be broken down by quarter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It is way too premature to worry about the kid. Watch the games; he gets penetration in the passing game, but is more vulnerable in the running game. Kyle was kind of like that. I need to go back and watch the game again, but from what I've read they changed their gap schemes the second half, hit gaps quicker rather than wait for blockers to get to them. That might help the kid in the run game. I'd also like to see if they could put him outside, with Phillips and Star inside, in earlier downs. He certainly has the quickness to be outside. Agreed. The reason Oliver's snaps were limited is because the Skins were committed to running the ball and Phillips is better at run stuffing right now. I believe Oliver will continue to progress and have a better all around game soon enough. I am looking forward to the day he "breaks out". I hope it is one of the next couple of games, but if not, I am predicting it will be on Thanksgiving day. He will be highly motivated to show up big in Texas and the added bonus of a National game will be what it takes too have his first "signature" game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. SpacePuppy Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Amazing how you can judge and entire career of a player in his first 8 games. Well, I guess if it was up to you we'd still be waiting on Maybin to grow into his role. I thought that was a god awful pick and I stand by the same opinion of Oliver being a reach because of his size. There were better prospects on the board...IMO. To me, based off of my opinion, it looks like I was right. Based on hype and where he was selected, he has massively under performed....you cant argue that. He just has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLBighits Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 54 minutes ago, Mr. SpacePuppy said: Such a terrible pick. A top ten pick should produce. This ones a whiffer big time. We don't even need him when the Phillips brothers are in. Should have grabbed a reciever or guard I don't think it's a terrible pick but they had a great offer to trade back for two or three spots they should've jumped All over that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. SpacePuppy Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Just watch the ***** game.? It's not that complicated. KEY IN ON THESE GUYS. Watch Edmunds. Watch Star. Edmunds consistently takes the wrong angle, misses tackles, struggles to disengage blocks, and is late to plays. Star essentially engages his block and does absolutely nothing outside of that. Dude has no idea where the ball is. 100% correct...I'd like to see a stat on how many tackles he has from behind....8 yards past the LOS Edited November 4, 2019 by Mr. SpacePuppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. SpacePuppy said: Well, I guess if it was up to you we'd still be waiting on Maybin to grow into his role. I thought that was a god awful pick and I stand by the same opinion of Oliver being a reach because of his size. There were better prospects on the board...IMO. To me, based off of my opinion, it looks like I was right. Based on hype and where he was selected, he has massively under performed....you cant argue that. He just has. Of course I can argue that. It depends on your expectations. If your expectation was another Aaron Donald, sure. But that would have been a completely unrealistic expectation. Oliver is getting good pressure on passing downs, struggling more against the run. He'll improve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Because he isn't playing as bad you stubbornly think he is. He is still upset over the Marcell Darius trade.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: I just rewatched and it looked like blame for run was pretty well distributed. A play or two where the DL got pushed back pretty good, a play where Edmunds got lost on the cutback and taken out of the play, a play where AP just wasn’t tackled and brought to the ground surrounded by defenders, etc etc. There was definitely one where Milano was in the wrong gap too. There was one play on the first long drive with the three back to back runs (I think it was the first one) where Oliver was just tossed aside by the olineman. That run was at least in part on him. There was one where Stat got totally turned around and was facing his own goalline as Peterson ran off his left hip into our secondary and there was play where Phillips was there to make the tackle and just whiffed on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Oliver is going to be fine. Phillips is playing great and deserves the start. Whatever the Bills can save by cutting Star after this season should be put towards resigning Phillips. I know the Star cut isn’t a huge savings this next year but it’s something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. SpacePuppy Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Of course I can argue that. It depends on your expectations. If your expectation was another Aaron Donald, sure. But that would have been a completely unrealistic expectation. Oliver is getting good pressure on passing downs, struggling more against the run. He'll improve 8 games in he has 10 solo tackles and one "sack" against a WR. C'mon. I'll take DK Metcalf right now in a straight up swap...but considering performance, Bills would need to give up more. Im willing to bet that we could sit Oliver the rest of the year and not miss him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr. SpacePuppy said: Well, I guess if it was up to you we'd still be waiting on Maybin to grow into his role. I thought that was a god awful pick and I stand by the same opinion of Oliver being a reach because of his size. There were better prospects on the board...IMO. To me, based off of my opinion, it looks like I was right. Based on hype and where he was selected, he has massively under performed....you cant argue that. He just has. Holy hyperbole. Am I allowed to use someone that didn't set the NFL world on fire in his first year but then became great after? Like Geno Atkins? The guy was projected to be a top 5-10 pick. He was taken at 9. That is not a reach. Basically this guy isn't what you wanted so you're going to judge his entire career. So on 11/4/2019...your'e declaring Oliver a bust and will never be good. Put a stamp on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. SpacePuppy Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: Holy hyperbole. Am I allowed to use someone that didn't set the NFL world on fire in his first year but then became great after? Like Geno Atkins? The guy was projected to be a top 5-10 pick. He was taken at 9. That is not a reach. Basically this guy isn't what you wanted so you're going to judge his entire career. So on 11/4/2019...your'e declaring Oliver a bust and will never be good. Put a stamp on it. Lets not stop there either....Allen, also a bust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Just now, Mr. SpacePuppy said: Lets not stop there either....Allen, also a bust. You're a teenager aren't you? 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr. SpacePuppy said: Lets not stop there either....Allen, also a bust. good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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