Jordan Phillips earns start; Oliver only plays 18 def snaps vs Redskins

[H2o]

28 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And you believe 'busts' don't manifest themselves in their rookie year?  I believe that's an essential criteria of the definition!  Now, this is not to say that all poor rookie seasons end up being busts, but I think it's safe to say that all busts had bad rookie seasons.  Wrongly forecasting the future does not make people 'borderline disabled'!  It just makes them wrong.

 

That's just the thing, he hasn't had a "poor" rookie season. They gave a guy who has turned into an animal this year the starting nod, rewarding him for his GREAT play on the field thus far. JJ Watt only had 4.5 sacks as a rookie. Arron Donald had 9 total, with 6 of those sacks coming after his 8th game in his rookie year. He has 2 less tackles and 2 less sacks than Donald had his rookie season through 8 games. He has 6 less tackles and the same amount of sacks JJ Watt had through his first 8 games. That's the definition of a bust? Has he REALLY had a "poor" season?  So in turn, yes, the intelligence level of some people on this board is seemingly borderline disabled at times.  

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Distorted One said:

 

I bet you $1000 you're dead-wrong.  You have ZERO idea what you're talking about.  Ed is a freaking ROOKIE!!!!   Why can't you guys remember that?  He's going to need a year or two to add weight, if needed, and develop his game more.  That's all.  You guys are ridiculous writing him off so quickly.  Your expectations are nonsense.

I wrote “it’s still extremely early in his career.” Take about six deep breaths home slice.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I thought Lawson looked decent yesterday.

 

I agree, just getting noticed = improvement. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

When did Oliver play more, in the first half when the run D was sucking like an open chest wound, or the second half when it miraculously got better?

Pretty sure the first half. Noticed on the one drive where Peterson broke back to back long runs haskins audibled at the line and ran to side oliver was lined up on. Was noticeable because oliver kept switching between the 2 tackle postions

[Virgil]

3 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Pretty sure the first half. Noticed on the one drive where Peterson broke back to back long runs haskins audibled at the line and ran to side oliver was lined up on. Was noticeable because oliver kept switching between the 2 tackle postions

The drive where Peterson had 3 straight big runs, Oliver was in on all 3 of them.  
 

He got absolutely blown up on one of them.  Comically bad 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Virgil

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I'm pretty sure every team passed up on him 5+ times.  Wasn't he a 6th or 7th round pick?  Everyone thought he would suck.  Oh well

Nahh slipped to the 2nd rd.  Numerous people (myself included) here would have taken him in the 1st or 2nd rd. 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Oliver rotate through the line and play some DE with his speed he might really excel opposite of Hughes. His actual size is better suited for the position. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Real McCoy

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, JohninMinn. said:

Marcell Dareus

How do you see Phillips as Dareus? I don't see it myself. I don't see him turning out the same at all.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[billsfanmd07]

Did not read every post. Any way Oliver could be a hybrid DE? Seems if he could be on one hand and take off could get after the QB.

 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

More than 8 games??? Is that possible??? 

 

I some times have to laugh when it comes to fans perceptions and memories.

Kyle Williams did not set the league on fire as a rookie, in fact he didn't have a sack until halfway thru his 2nd season.

Oliver still has a lot of learning and growing to do but to even talk about bust after 8 games is just reactionary.

 

What are we going to do with these people Augie?  LOL

[Royale with Cheese]

17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

NFL gamepass. It's not that complicated. Are you dense? I said watch the tape. Meaning WATCH THE GAME.?

 

So you're telling me that you have an NFL Gamepass account and each week you break down Star?

Watch the tape doesn't mean watch the game.  Watch the tape means evaluating the game film.  It's not a broadcast view.

 

So again, how much time have you actually put in breaking down film of Star specifically?

 

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Lol wha the ***** are you even talking about? So you have no idea if a player had a good or bad game by simply watching the game? 

 

You really think it's that complicated dude? ? It's not hard to see Edmunds get lost in a pile, react slow to a play, get easily engaged by blocks and driven back 4-5 yards.... or when Stars back is facing the running back as he runs through a wide open hole.?

 

 

 

So you call me out to "watch the tape" when you haven't actually done it yourself.  Good stuff there Scott.

When it comes to interior battles on a broadcast view, it's tough to tell.  It's easy to see a corner beat over the top or a QB throwing a completely bad pass.  Do you think the coaches are watching broadcast view in their film meetings?  Why is the view in game film different?

 

It must be that complicated because his snaps aren't decreasing and actually increasing.  So McDermott is seeing something on game film that you're seeing differently on the broadcast view.  But of course, you're Scottlaw and for whatever reason, never think you can be wrong. 

Here's the thing...you actually think you get as good or even better evaluation on players in your broadcast view than McDermott has on film....where's he's actually spending time to break it down.  

 

Again for the millionth time....as soon as his playing time decreases significantly, then I'll start believing he's useless.  But for some reason, you can't handle that.  It's the oddest thing.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Royale with Cheese

[H2o]

4 minutes ago, Virgil said:

The drive where Peterson had 3 straight big runs, Oliver was in on all 3 of them.  
 

He got absolutely blown up on one of them.  Comically bad 

The whole DL and LB unit was getting blown up on those chunk runs by AP. I saw Star, Edmunds, and Milano getting eaten alive in there as well. They had the running game going in the first half, but we made some adjustments and they looked better as a whole after halftime.  

[GoBills808]

28 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So you're telling me that you have an NFL Gamepass account and each week you break down Star?

Watch the tape doesn't mean watch the game.  Watch the tape means evaluating the game film.  It's not a broadcast view.

 

So again, how much time have you actually put in breaking down film of Star specifically?

 

I only started doing it because there seems to be an inordinate amount of people here who don’t understand the basic dline concepts we run. It’s not hard to see what the issue is. I’ve broken it down in like 3 other threads already but new ones keep spawning.

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There was definitely one where Milano was in the wrong gap too. There was one play on the first long drive with the three back to back runs (I think it was the first one) where Oliver was just tossed aside by the olineman. That run was at least in part on him. There was one where Stat got totally turned around and was facing his own goalline as Peterson ran off his left hip into our secondary and there was play where Phillips was there to make the tackle and just whiffed on it.

I think this is the second play you're referring to-

 

 

...and this is why the Lotulelei thing is stupid. I know, I'm sorry to use that term but if anyone watches this and thinks this is a DT issue is just fundamentally unaware of our defensive line scheme. In the first half (and for much of the season) they line up Lotulelei in this 1tech spot tilted toward center to open up B gaps for the LBs. He takes the C/LG double (his job) and you can actually see him attempt to engage RG who is putting the opposite double on Oliver I think. If Oliver keeps both occupied it's an easy fill by Edmunds for possible TFL or the RB bounces into B gap which is what happens where Lotulelei still has double occupied for S to fill. 

 

They stopped tilting Lotulelei in the second half and had him at more 3tech because it allowed Edmunds and Milano to play A gaps instead of playing Bs, which is an easier read for them against a back like Peterson who can bounce in the hold quickly. It looked to me like they were also having trouble when Washington ran zone (not here, this is straight man/gap blocking and honestly played well by everyone except Johnson, who just needs to make the tackle). 

 

If someone looks at this play and say 'well Lotulelei had his back turned to the runner and wasn't doing his job'...I mean, this is him literally doing his job to perfection. 

[DrDawkinstein]

It shouldnt be surprising that a veteran who was a 2nd round pick out of Oklahoma can earn/keep a starting spot over a rookie.

 

It's not a bad thing to have 2 good players at a position. Especially a position that uses a ROTATION.

 

Once again I find myself reminding Bills fans that ITS OK TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE GOOD PLAYER AT A POSITION.

 

Sign J. Phillips to a new contract, and be glad that we can afford to pay him because the other rotational guy is going to be on his rookie deal for a few more years.

[formerlyofCtown]

6 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Ouch man.  This pick is looking far worse than I thought it would.  I hope he turns it around

I dont think its about Oliver as much as it is Phillips.  Dudes been a beast.

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Oliver is in trouble. His ceiling was Aaron Donald. His floor was, well, I don’t know. 

 

He’s an undersized, squat DT who hasn’t been super effective rushing the passer. I’m not sure what his role in the defense is at his level of play right now. Still extremely early in his career, but I can understand why McD is limiting his role.

I’d rather my pass rushing rookie DT get 9 sacks like Donald, or 6 like Dareus, not benched at 6-2 with the run defense imploding since the 3rd round pick last year got hurt.

Hes not a polished pass rusher. Despite what all the talking heads and media say he was always a better run stuffer than pass rusher in college

 

He has the POTENTIAL to become a big time interior rusher. He has no pass rush moves rn and relies on quickness and strength

 

Give him a off-season to work on a rip swim move and he should come back a better pass rusher

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think this is the second play you're referring to-

 

 

...and this is why the Lotulelei thing is stupid. I know, I'm sorry to use that term but if anyone watches this and thinks this is a DT issue is just fundamentally unaware of our defensive line scheme. In the first half (and for much of the season) they line up Lotulelei in this 1tech spot tilted toward center to open up B gaps for the LBs. He takes the C/LG double (his job) and you can actually see him attempt to engage RG who is putting the opposite double on Oliver I think. If Oliver keeps both occupied it's an easy fill by Edmunds for possible TFL or the RB bounces into B gap which is what happens where Lotulelei still has double occupied for S to fill. 

 

They stopped tilting Lotulelei in the second half and had him at more 3tech because it allowed Edmunds and Milano to play A gaps instead of playing Bs, which is an easier read for them against a back like Peterson who can bounce in the hold quickly. It looked to me like they were also having trouble when Washington ran zone (not here, this is straight man/gap blocking and honestly played well by everyone except Johnson, who just needs to make the tackle). 

 

If someone looks at this play and say 'well Lotulelei had his back turned to the runner and wasn't doing his job'...I mean, this is him literally doing his job to perfection. 

 

Edmunds runs right into Star's back. Star does a good job early in that down and you are right if Johnson makes the tackle the play is dead. 

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Hes not a polished pass rusher. Despite what all the talking heads and media say he was always a better run stuffer than pass rusher in college

 

He has the POTENTIAL to become a big time interior rusher. He has no pass rush moves rn and relies on quickness and strength

 

Give him a off-season to work on a rip swim move and he should come back a better pass rusher

Sure. I’m just saying he’s in a bad spot right now because he isn’t a super polished pass rusher and McD and co are taking him off the field to go big. So he’s in between a rock and a hard place.

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Oliver is in trouble. His ceiling was Aaron Donald. His floor was, well, I don’t know. 

 

He’s an undersized, squat DT who hasn’t been super effective rushing the passer. I’m not sure what his role in the defense is at his level of play right now. Still extremely early in his career, but I can understand why McD is limiting his role.

I’d rather my pass rushing rookie DT get 9 sacks like Donald, or 6 like Dareus, not benched at 6-2 with the run defense imploding since the 3rd round pick last year got hurt.

So let Me see his ceiling is the best DT in the league and his floor is less than thatMe see his ceiling is the best DT in the league and his floor is less than that what exactly is the problem here he is being played outplayed buy a veteran who is Str8 Ballin and he is a rookie what exactly is the problem here he is being played outplayed buy a veteran who is Str8 Ballin and he is a rookie