A Few Thoughts about the Redskins Game, in no particular order

[Big Turk]

Well whatever was the problem in the run game, it appears they addressed it in the second half...Peterson had 10 carries for 101 yards in the first half and 8 carries for 7 yards in the second half.  

 

From what the players said it was on them for not "gapping it up" properly and not making their run fits in the proper gaps...Alexander said that sometimes when you are giving up big plays players try and do too much and try and make a stop outside of what their assignment is on a play...once they went back to playing their proper gaps apparently this addressed much of the issue in the second half...

[Big Turk]

My problem with Daboll is looking at the offensive line stats from Football Outsiders, it is readily apparent that we have a VERY good, if not GREAT run blocking line in pretty much every area EXCEPT Power Runs, where we rank 29th(41% success rate). Power being defined as when you bring jumbo or tank personnel onto the field and try and run for a first down on 3rd or 4th and 2 or less yards OR runs from the goalline on 1st or 2nd down with under 2 yards to go. Yesterday isn't going to do any favors in upping our ranking in that category and may see us fall to 30th or 31st.  The teams currently beneath us are Chicago(36%), Carolina(33%) and surprisingly Washington, who is by far and away the worst power success team in the NFL at only 20%  The NFL Average is 63% so we clearly have a long way to go there.

 

We are #1 in the NFL in Adjusted Line Yards(5.13) and 2nd Level Yards(1.50)

We are #6 in the NFL in Open Field Yards(1.10)

We are #9 in the NFL in Stuffed Percentage (17%)---lower means your team gets stuffed less

 

So basically we do everything well or very well in the run game EXCEPT run Power, so WHY does Daboll INSIST on running Power in these situations??  Just spread them out and run out of a different formation. Problem solved...stop bringing everyone to the LOS and force them to spread out so there are more lanes.

Edited November 4, 2019 by matter2003

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Good post, especially about Daboll. His playcalling is maddening sometimes.

[Nihilarian]

To the OP. Don't even give a second thought to those Bills fans who always want to see the brighter side in everything and complain that you bring up valid points about the problems with the team. Speak your mind man and keep up the good work. Its all about the truth and facts. 

 

This so called elite Bills defense shouldn't be allowing an aged RB in Adrian Peterson 108 yards on 18 rushes to the tune of 6.0 yards per carry. This from a team that was 1-7 and starting a rookie QB that their own coaching staff stated wasn't really ready to start. The Redskins were 31st on offense and 20th in defense. The Bills should have dominated in every facet. 

 

The 2-6 Cleveland Browns, the 1-7 Miami Dolphins, the 3-6 Denver Broncos are the next three opponents and these should be easy wins. They won't be because this team has problems. Problems with the play calling. Problems stopping the run. Problems with the team playing down to bad teams and just squeaking by for some reason. Problems in seeing which RB has the hot hand and going with that player. 

 

By the Cowboys game on Nov 28th we Bills fans honestly don't know if the team will be 9-2 or 6-5? With the #3 overall defense and a stout run game this team should win the next three. 

 

 

[clayboy54]

15 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

You are 100% right and it's something I've honestly thought about as I wrote this.  It's a struggle sometimes because I'm allowing myself to start to treat the team like a playoff caliber unit.  The negatives, as I try to own up front as negatives, is coming from a mindset of what worries me going forward and as I evaluate a 6-2 team.

 

In recent years, it's almost been easier to be positive because expectations were so low.  I didn't think about anything beyond the game we were playing.

 

What's also funny to me is that a lot of my Allen comments could easily have his name removed and replaced with Tyrod from a final result.  But saying that will get me killed.  While they are very different QB's and Allen has way more potential, the end result is similar lately.

 

But yes, I understand your point and am trying to find the common ground.  When we made the playoffs two years ago, I didn't care that we lost to the Jags.  I was just so happy we made it finally. This year, I'd feel pissed if we got bounced in the first round.  I'd be moreso pissed if it's because of the things I mentioned in the first 3 points because it's something we are seeing happen every week now and aren't adjusting.

 

Overall, it's a testament to the raised expectations McD has created for me while also trying not to buy into previous Bills results. 

I honestly appreciate your post and I hope that somewhat adds some light to where I'm coming from.  Remember, we are both coming from the same place of wanting to see a winning team.

 

Also, this

I honestly don't know what has changed around here. I'd guess that many are smitten with the overall record and now are demanding that we should be playing like Superbowl favorites. Then when we don't, they get extremely depressed and negative. Fire the coaches, cut the players, etc.

 

The reality of our season is that we are winning games that good teams win. I see it as, isn't it nice that we have a good, competitive team for a change? Frankly, I am thoroughly enjoying being in the race for a change. I see it as yet another big step in the Process for which McDermott and Beane  are committed. Our young players are growing into their roles. Key players like Josh Allen are improving. The veteran players are holding their peers accountable and it's paying dividends when adversity strikes in each game.

 

The key to this is the defensive performance in the second half yesterday. The reason we fail to stop the inside run is gap integrity. The quick first step gets the front 7 out of position. In the second half, the guys were more disciplined and less impulsive. It's not because Star "sucks" or Edmunds is a bust. It's because the team accountability took over and pushed the young guys to lighten-up, think and react to what you see, all the while "do your job" and maintain your responsibility.

 

What many forget to focus on, is that these young players are so excitable and that includes Allen. When you play with emotion instead of discipline, you lose control and the results are what so many here focus on.

 

There are many great posters here, and you Virgil are one of them. There's a ton of extremely knowledgeable football people around here. We as a group need those of you to maintain discipline and point the emotional fans to the facts rather than to fuel the fire of irrational rants.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response.  

[Dan]

17 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I honestly don't know what has changed around here. I'd guess that many are smitten with the overall record and now are demanding that we should be playing like Superbowl favorites. Then when we don't, they get extremely depressed and negative. Fire the coaches, cut the players, etc.

 

The reality of our season is that we are winning games that good teams win. I see it as, isn't it nice that we have a good, competitive team for a change? Frankly, I am thoroughly enjoying being in the race for a change. I see it as yet another big step in the Process for which McDermott and Beane  are committed. Our young players are growing into their roles. Key players like Josh Allen are improving. The veteran players are holding their peers accountable and it's paying dividends when adversity strikes in each game.

 

The key to this is the defensive performance in the second half yesterday. The reason we fail to stop the inside run is gap integrity. The quick first step gets the front 7 out of position. In the second half, the guys were more disciplined and less impulsive. It's not because Star "sucks" or Edmunds is a bust. It's because the team accountability took over and pushed the young guys to lighten-up, think and react to what you see, all the while "do your job" and maintain your responsibility.

 

What many forget to focus on, is that these young players are so excitable and that includes Allen. When you play with emotion instead of discipline, you lose control and the results are what so many here focus on.

 

There are many great posters here, and you Virgil are one of them. There's a ton of extremely knowledgeable football people around here. We as a group need those of you to maintain discipline and point the emotional fans to the facts rather than to fuel the fire of irrational rants.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response.  

Thank you.   I couldn't agree more.   Yes, there are issues with this team. It's full of young players that play with emotion and will make mistakes.  But...

 

They're half way through the season and not only sitting with a winning record, but the 2nd best record in the conference.  The season isn't over; we're not all looking at who to draft.   We're talking about playoff position.

 

It feels like half this fan base is just so used to being let down that they refuse to see what's happening.  That this team is learning to win, they're getting better. And for the first time this millennium they are in a position to make the playoffs because they won the games, not because other teams helped them get in.  

 

I agree with Hyde.  I'm not apologizing for wins anymore.  We're 6-2.  No game is a given, but no game is a guaranteed loss.   Enjoy it folks.  We haven't seen a season like this in decades.    We can nitpick the team all off season, but for now let's enjoy it. 

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

Nor does it make the statements any less true. 

They had four sacks yesterday, and both starting DEs recorded sacks. 

[ganesh]

15 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Totally irrespective of what Allen does in the passing game, does it bother anyone else that our WRs don't attack the ball at all?

 

I mean, zero aggressiveness toward the football.

We need more talent on that side of the ball.  And our OL is below average after a good start to the season. 

[BillsfanAZ]

11 hours ago, GreggTX said:

My big concern for this team is the GM. We are getting gashed up the middle, despite the 2nd half turnaround, so let's look at the 3 starters in that middle triangle.

 

1. Star Lotulelei was signed for 6 years to a big money contract. He's been terrible for years, so why the big money for him? He's way overpaid. Unlike may other observers, I think Beane's FA acquisitions have been a mixed bag.

2. Ed Oliver was a 1st round pick. He may turn out OK, but right now he's a serious liability and it's not like his position is all that difficult to play for a rookie. Many rookies perform well at DT.

3. Tremaine Edwards. He's still young, but he was a 1st round pick and he sure doesn't look like it. He just can't get off blocks.

 

These are some of the most important acquisitions that Beane has made considering that 6 year deal and 2 of our top 3 picks under Beane aren't performing very well. Quite honestly, I don't know if Josh Allen will ever be anything more than an average pocket passer even with his arm strength. He continues to struggle with his accuracy. We need for those 1st and 2nd round picks to become the elite players we thought we were drafting and early returns are not promising. If Allen, Edmunds, Oliver and Ford don't start playing much, much better, I think we can only be a mediocre team in the long run. We have to do a much better job. I admit that I liked all the pre-draft chatter about Ed Oliver like many of you. He's been invisible all season long. Quite frankly, I think Harrison and Jordan Phillips are the 2 best DT's on our roster right now.

I cannot disagree more.....

 

1. Star hasnt been great in every game but he has been good in several games. Does his play match his contract? No but who cares. The Bills overpaid but it is not hurting them right now. 

 

2. Using hind sight to second guess a first round pick after 8 games is crazy. If Oliver would have gone in the top 5 nobody would have second guessed it. He was one the top rated players in the draft. 

 

3. There are time Edwards does get tied up in blocks but watch the game. He makes a lot of plays. He has lived up to being a 1st round pick. 

[Virgil]

3 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

2. Using hind sight to second guess a first round pick after 8 games is crazy. If Oliver would have gone in the top 5 nobody would have second guessed it. He was one the top rated players in the draft.

 

I'm not using hindsight.  As I said originally, I wasn't a big fan of the pick originally.  And if you compare him to DE Allen, the guy I was really hoping we'd trade up to 5 and get, you could see those results. 

 

Ultimately, I want Oliver to pan out because he's on the team.  But I think he fell for a reason

[Pokebball]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

To the OP. Don't even give a second thought to those Bills fans who always want to see the brighter side in everything and complain that you bring up valid points about the problems with the team. Speak your mind man and keep up the good work. Its all about the truth and facts. 

 

This so called elite Bills defense shouldn't be allowing an aged RB in Adrian Peterson 108 yards on 18 rushes to the tune of 6.0 yards per carry. This from a team that was 1-7 and starting a rookie QB that their own coaching staff stated wasn't really ready to start. The Redskins were 31st on offense and 20th in defense. The Bills should have dominated in every facet. 

 

The 2-6 Cleveland Browns, the 1-7 Miami Dolphins, the 3-6 Denver Broncos are the next three opponents and these should be easy wins. They won't be because this team has problems. Problems with the play calling. Problems stopping the run. Problems with the team playing down to bad teams and just squeaking by for some reason. Problems in seeing which RB has the hot hand and going with that player. 

 

By the Cowboys game on Nov 28th we Bills fans honestly don't know if the team will be 9-2 or 6-5? With the #3 overall defense and a stout run game this team should win the next three. 

 

 

I believe we're 2.5 pt dogs to the Browns.  We shouldn't be taking any team lightly.

8 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I cannot disagree more.....

 

1. Star hasnt been great in every game but he has been good in several games. Does his play match his contract? No but who cares. The Bills overpaid but it is not hurting them right now. 

 

2. Using hind sight to second guess a first round pick after 8 games is crazy. If Oliver would have gone in the top 5 nobody would have second guessed it. He was one the top rated players in the draft. 

 

3. There are time Edwards does get tied up in blocks but watch the game. He makes a lot of plays. He has lived up to being a 1st round pick. 

Edwards is in his second year.  Oliver is in his first.  They'll both be OK.

[Gugny]

18 hours ago, Virgil said:

3 - Daboll - Every season I seem to have a public enemy number one.  While Oliver is up there on my list considering his draft status, he gets the pass being a rookie.  I don't know if Daboll doesn't understand what works for him or if he has a Martz complex where he feels like he has to prove how smart he is.  Allen is more comfortable, and we rush better, out of the shotgun.  Our jet sweep plays come from that, which creates mis-direction, and again, gives Allen another option.  Today, when we moved right down field in the first half consistently, we did it mainly out of that core formation.  Then we get to 1st and goal from the 2.  Daboll, in all his infinite wisdom, tries to cute plays and we end up 3rd and long; eventually settling for a field goal.  Then, we have multiple short yardage plays where we prove time and time again that we can't execute.  While I do appreciate giving Motor the start today and getting him way more involved in the offense, we also took Beasley and Brown completely out of the offense.  And this brings me to my overall issue with Daboll.  The man doesn't seem capable of doing more than one thing at a time.  We are either a passing team or a rushing team.  He can't keep it going and then, when things are looking good, he out thinks himself and sets the entire offense back, destroying any rhythm they have.  I'm sorry, but Daboll hasn't performed in any job he's had and I'm not seeing the issues with the players for once.

 

I agree with this 110%.  While I was unhappy with the first half run defense, I could not get over how absolutely horrible Brian Daboll was yesterday.

 

It's not like this offense is stacked with talent; but it's certainly not devoid of it.  And the talent that we DO have on this roster is being terribly misused and underutilized.

 

He fixes things that aren't broken EVERY ***** WEEK and it's not doing our young QB and favors.

 

[ctk232]

18 hours ago, Virgil said:

3 - Daboll - Every season I seem to have a public enemy number one.  While Oliver is up there on my list considering his draft status, he gets the pass being a rookie.  I don't know if Daboll doesn't understand what works for him or if he has a Martz complex where he feels like he has to prove how smart he is.  Allen is more comfortable, and we rush better, out of the shotgun.  Our jet sweep plays come from that, which creates mis-direction, and again, gives Allen another option.  Today, when we moved right down field in the first half consistently, we did it mainly out of that core formation.  Then we get to 1st and goal from the 2.  Daboll, in all his infinite wisdom, tries to cute plays and we end up 3rd and long; eventually settling for a field goal.  Then, we have multiple short yardage plays where we prove time and time again that we can't execute.  While I do appreciate giving Motor the start today and getting him way more involved in the offense, we also took Beasley and Brown completely out of the offense.  And this brings me to my overall issue with Daboll.  The man doesn't seem capable of doing more than one thing at a time.  We are either a passing team or a rushing team.  He can't keep it going and then, when things are looking good, he out thinks himself and sets the entire offense back, destroying any rhythm they have.  I'm sorry, but Daboll hasn't performed in any job he's had and I'm not seeing the issues with the players for once.

 

Great takes for sure - and I can certainly see the reason for the skepticism. I'm with you on most of this, but without making it sound like I'm trying to excuse the above, I think we still need to consider a few variables regarding our perspective of the above and Daboll. Generally, we were going to be, at best, an 8-8/7-9 team this year before our schedule became the cupcake that it is, and no one expected us to be truly SB/playoff competitive this year. A lot of that had to do with the fact that on opening day, we returned and started three offensive players: Allen, Dawkins, and Jones/Foster (McKenzie too, but not qualifying as "starter"). Not only does it take offenses more than a single offseason and eight real game weeks to begin to show form and pull together with an identity, Daboll comes from a coaching tree predicated on complex offensive looks and schemes. John Brown was the first to subtly mention it publicly, but we're running a very complex O that does get too cutesy at times for what the situation may call for, but provides us a great arsenal for attacking teams on a fundamental basis.

 

As much as it's difficult to watch at times, I don't think this is something to be calling for dramatic change at this point - it certainly needs to improve, but I'd like to see us first have a consistently good offensive roster continue beyond just a single season before we coin our offense as overly complex and by result, inept. Tweaks certainly need to be made, but a lot of the reason why our offense can look different week to week is to limit how much opposition can scheme to us. Look what a power run offense under Greg Roman, a known pistol/power run guy, is doing with the right personnel in Baltimore - the Pats D hasn't seen anything like that, nor the NFL for that matter, since the early/mid 2000's. Mixing up offensive looks week to week very much helps us to open up the passing game, or run game with Motor, or rushes with Josh (if he could please learn ball security)...but all of these do help in a league that will take you to school once you start to get too rhythmic.

 

All this to say, at this point what I'd rather see is Daboll simplifying the scheme and approaching things in the present. Looking instead at the current situation/offensive drive rather than setting up for a later drive with varied looks in hopes of giving us a better 4th quarter look. Not looking ahead to next year by any means, but for being 6-2 as a team that is truly not yet ready to compete on the perennial playoff level, I'm happy to see we're at least taking care of the games we absolutely should win, and to take this into next season with another year under the system and returning offensive players like we did for the Defense this year, it's honestly the most hopeful I've been for this team in 20 years. Daboll should at least have the rest of the season to show what the scheme can do and make necessary adjustments, but a new system for Allen at this point or next year could just as easily have a regressive impact than a progressive one.

[CodeMonkey]

18 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

So negative after a solid win.

What solid win was that??

[26TrapDraw]

18 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

So negative after a solid win.

Solid? ?

[Spiderweb]

19 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

"I don't know if Daboll doesn't understand what works for him or if he has a Martz complex where he feels like he has to prove how smart he is."

 

This has been my complaint all year.  Outthinking his own self.

 

No one expects the unexpected!

 

I too have now begin to believe that Daboll was a poor choice for OC...... McBean needs to rethink what they believe makes a good OC. So many years of this same old nonsense.

[Brand J]

Don’t know if this has been discussed, but I absolutely HATED the 3rd and 8 run to play for a FG. Don’t know if that falls on Daboll or McD’s direction, but it was a cowardly call that was bailed out by defensive holding. The coaches lack aggression, I wish they were as greedy as Belicheat and co. That timid mindset trickles down to the players. There was a quote a week or two ago from Allen that went something like “with the way our defense plays, I don’t feel like I always have to throw for touchdowns.” Whaaat?! Anyone else catch that golden nugget?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

1 - Oliver - (....) Moreso, on the one drive where Peterson really gashed us, that was the only drive I saw where he was in there for highest percentage of snaps.  On one play in particular, I watched Oliver not only get beat by a single offense lineman, I saw him get pushed backwards off his feet by more than a few yards. (...) The fact that he wasn't in the game on multiple 3rd and long plays also makes me wonder if the coaches are seeing something too.

 

2 - Rush Defense - (....) On the majority of the big rushes, the linebackers are at the line of scrimmage, getting consumed by blocks before Peterson gets there.  That allows him to see where the gaps will be and hit them.  We are hitting the line so quickly that we aren't creating a second level, so once he gets past the line, he's free for 10+ yards.  My analysis could be wrong, but I think this is what McD is talking about when referring to technique issues.  They defensive line aren't taking up their gaps allowing our LB's to get swallowed up in blocks.  Either way, it's not 3 weeks in a row and doesn't seem to be getting any better.  We were lucky that the Redskins switched up what was working for them with toss plays. 

 

So first off, I disagree with the "doesn't seem to be getting any better".  Credit is due that they made some adjustments at the half and shut the rush game down.  We owe (I believe) the win to that.

 

There was some discussion of this in the game and post-game thread.  Phillips, in his post-game interview, said something about the DL being drawn in - I interpret that as penetrating too far - and needing to make that adjustment.  It's a bit hard for me to understand but check it out.  Someone (GunnerBill?) commented on McDermott needing to move away from Oliver towards bigger bodies on the DL to stop the run because the LB weren't doing their job as expected.

In any event Oliver saw his snaps fall from 60-65% in the first 4 games to a low of 35% this past game, and making adjustments to stop the run more effectively is likely why.

 

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

3 - Daboll - Every season I seem to have a public enemy number one. ........I don't know if Daboll doesn't understand what works for him or if he has a Martz complex where he feels like he has to prove how smart he is.  Allen is more comfortable, and we rush better, out of the shotgun.  Our jet sweep plays come from that, which creates mis-direction, and again, gives Allen another option.  Today, when we moved right down field in the first half consistently, we did it mainly out of that core formation.  Then we get to 1st and goal from the 2.  Daboll, in all his infinite wisdom, tries to cute plays and we end up 3rd and long; eventually settling for a field goal.  Then, we have multiple short yardage plays where we prove time and time again that we can't execute.  While I do appreciate giving Motor the start today and getting him way more involved in the offense, we also took Beasley and Brown completely out of the offense.  And this brings me to my overall issue with Daboll.  The man doesn't seem capable of doing more than one thing at a time.  We are either a passing team or a rushing team.  He can't keep it going and then, when things are looking good, he out thinks himself and sets the entire offense back, destroying any rhythm they have.  I'm sorry, but Daboll hasn't performed in any job he's had and I'm not seeing the issues with the players for once.

 

I see brilliance out of Daboll at times.  I also seem mind-boggling mind-baffling turning aside from things that work.  Allen, judging by his post-game presser, believes in him completely and takes it on himself that he doesn't execute.  Perhaps he's right.

 

When I think of Daboll, the persistent mental image of Vizzini in The Princess Bride comes to mind.  I feel like Daboll too often chooses plays according to some tortured logic he scripts in his own mind, and not according to the best use of the actual players he has to work with and dispassionate observations of what is or is not working on a given day.  He seems painfully slow to make adjustments. 

 

I don't think you can say we took Beasley and Brown completely out of the offense.  Brown led the team with 4 receptions on 7 targets for 76 yds.  Beasley had 2 receptions including a TD.  But one does have to wonder if they could have been used more to good effect.

 

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

5 - Defensive line - At what point is the most expensive unit on our team going to step up and earn their paychecks this season?

 

See above on adjustments to shut down the run.  We have an above average defense by most metrics.  I don't think you should focus on bright, shiny things (sacks).

 

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

 Hughes gets a bit of a pass from me because he was getting absolutely mugged out there.  There was one hold on Hughes that was so bad it's hard to not buy into the theory that he pissed off the refs with his tunnel incident. 

 

From some comments Eric Wood let out, apparently the tunnel incident was part of a long line of jawing at the refs, and perhaps he still is?  If so, he needs to shaddup.  If not, McDermott and Frazier need to put together a film mashup of uncalled Hughes muggings and send them to the league for an explanation because it is becoming beyond absurd.

 

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

7 - PI Calls - Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not PI if the defender initiates the tackle on the receiver before the ball gets to the receiver and also makes zero attempt to make a play for the ball?  I really want to know more about how that play wasn't considered PI and why McD didn't challenge it. 

 

That call absolutely should have been PI.  I imagine you have the correct reason McD didn't challenge: they have not been overturned.

 

 

 

[Nihilarian]

There are some positive things I want to comment about that happened this game!

 

ONLY two penalties for 20 yards the ENTIRE game!!  I have been complaining that this team has averaged 8.5 penalties a game. This was huge!! 

 

NOT having Josh Allen run a designed QB run play. No turnovers or fumbles by the QB. This is another smart thing to do to help keep the QB upright and gaining confidence. 

 

Using RB Devin Singletary like he should be used, 20 carries for 95 yards a 4.8 YPC AVG, 1 TD. 3 receptions for 45 yards

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

There are some positive things I want to comment about that happened this game!

 

ONLY two penalties for 20 yards the ENTIRE game!!  I have been complaining that this team has averaged 8.5 penalties a game. This was huge!! 

 

NOT having Josh Allen run a designed QB run play. No turnovers or fumbles by the QB. This is another smart thing to do to help keep the QB upright and gaining confidence. 

 

Using RB Devin Singletary like he should be used, 20 carries for 95 yards a 4.8 YPC AVG, 1 TD. 3 receptions for 45 yards

 

Um...No fumbles lost.  Allen fumbled twice, though.