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PUNT750

I'm sick of hearing about "metrics" in evaluating the Bills

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Just now, Gugny said:

It was just a joke re: the length and the amount of information packed into it.  It was a shot at Exiled; not you!

 

I don't pontificate about locks and waterway ecology

 

I do pontificate at times :bag:

 

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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't pontificate about locks and waterway ecology

 

 

And for this, I thank you!

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15 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

A lot of people seem to make excuses  for the LACK OF PERFORMANCE of individual Bill's players.  Ed Oliver doesn't get sacks or make big plays.  Yet, his metrics for causing disruption on the opponents OL is high?  Edmunds has great metrics for covering receivers but he has yet to make an impact in games.  Trent Murphy & Star are similar examples.  We keep waiting for Josh to take over a game with all his great metrics!

KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) are much different from metrics. Literally anything, as long as you can count it, can be a metric. The problem is that a metric doesn’t actually do much for you. It doesn’t give you a true indicator of how someone is performing. It’s just a number and not and indicator of performance.  That number can be divided or multiplied by anything to support a pre determined inferential statistic.

 

 

 

If a player is recording sacks, making tackles, throwing for touchdowns or making FG’s that’s a performance level that counts and can be measured!.

 

 


On the defense - we don’t have many huge star machines but they have been relatively efficient. So one might say that some of these guys are playing higher than their sack or INT or TFL stats might indicate... you know, since those are somewhat arbitrary metrics to measure a guy on too

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Penalty #85, HOLDING

Penalty #85, illegal formation

Penalty #85 , HOLDING

Penalty #85, too many men on field

Penalty, not sure of the number but it was probably #85

 

Image result for lee smith nfl

Yahoo News

Edited by HOUSE

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15 hours ago, nrenegar said:

KPIs are examples of metrics.

 

Even wins are an example of a metric...

As someone that uses KPIs daily, this is 100% correct. It's just a more complicated word for "metrics"

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The measuring of anything makes it a metric, you must be enormously pissed off about everything by that standard....

 

Go Bills!!!

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18 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

A lot of people seem to make excuses  for the LACK OF PERFORMANCE of individual Bill's players.  Ed Oliver doesn't get sacks or make big plays.  Yet, his metrics for causing disruption on the opponents OL is high?  Edmunds has great metrics for covering receivers but he has yet to make an impact in games.  Trent Murphy & Star are similar examples.  We keep waiting for Josh to take over a game with all his great metrics!

KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) are much different from metrics. Literally anything, as long as you can count it, can be a metric. The problem is that a metric doesn’t actually do much for you. It doesn’t give you a true indicator of how someone is performing. It’s just a number and not and indicator of performance.  That number can be divided or multiplied by anything to support a pre determined inferential statistic.

 

 

 

If a player is recording sacks, making tackles, throwing for touchdowns or making FG’s that’s a performance level that counts and can be measured!.

 

 

what if you throw 2 tds but have a turn over?  what if you have 3 sacks but get blown out of the water for a 30 rushing td? what if you have an int but give up 100+ receiving?

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9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm just curious here. 

 

We beat the Tennessee Titans, who currently are 4-4 with the #4 defense, the #26 offense, and ahead of the Bills with a point differential/game of 2, are "garbage"

We lost to the Eagles, who are currently 4-4 with the #21 defense, the #14 offense, and currently have a point differential/game of 0.

 

The Titans scored 43, 17, 7, 24, 7, and 0 points with Mariota (the last two games being what benched him) and have scored 23 and 27 points with Tannehill.

So it's not as though all Mariota's games were impotent offense - 2 were equal or greater points scored than Tannehill's 2 games.

 

So.....why exactly is Mariota the difference that makes a strong defensive team "garbage", and a team that is by some measures not as good, a "good team"?

 

Then, while you point out we got the Giants with Eli as though that proves they were horrid, Eli did put up 68% completions for 306 passing yards and a TD for a 95.5 passer rating the previous week against Dallas, so it's not as though they were shown to be impotent on offense before we played them.  We also got the Jets with Darnold, who then proceeded to suck on offense without him for 3 subsequent Sundays before rebounding against the Cowboys, but you don't point that out.

 

It just seems like really twisting the data to fit a narrative.

 

 

😱 That's actually quite a Vintage Hapless post, while I haven't seen Exiled pontificating about statistical matters.   (maybe I missed it)

 

So I'm really totes not sure where that's coming from, Gugny

 

we beat the titans when they had mariota..... they are a complete diff team wiithout him. and your right they do have a good defense thats why we only put up 14 points lmao! 7 being on a short field. and thats are best win by far so that really says something, cause mariota is trash and until they benched him they were multiple games below 500. we have beaten all garbage.

 

Honestly if we had the raiders schedule where they faced KC...and then @Minn @indy, Vs the bears IN LONDON @ GB and then @ Houston those are all playoff caliber teams I dont know where we would be. the 2 teams we played that will be playoff teams or close to playoff teams we lost. its just a fact. we got an extremely lucky schedule this year with both jets and dolphins taking, and still have some easy games coming up, nobody takes us serious cause we have no legit wins.

 

lmao bro you can do mental gymnastics all you want but there is a reason why he was benched, cause he was trash, all he could throw was check downs so not shocked he had a high completion rate, and even with daniel jones they blow but eli made it that more easy. we get another gimme this week, its just a fact nobody will take us serious  until we beat some legit competition.

 

again mental gymnastics, they benched mariota because of turn overs and when he did score some points and yards they were down a crap ton going against prevent, its a FACT that the offense is MORE efficient without him, they stay in games and dont turn it over. just a fact. and again beating a .500 team where we scored just 14 points isnt anything to brag about, thats also a team that beat....browns, falcons, buccs, and chargers., scrubs to, with the chargers pretty much giving the game away getting stuffed on the goal line. so barley beating a team who also has no real legit wins while they were using a QB they benched is nothing to brag about.

 

is daltons completion % next lol?

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13 hours ago, Mojo44 said:

Wins are not metrics. They are what metrics try to predict.

Or you can use wins to project the likelihood of future wins or making the playoffs, which means of course they are a metric. 

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28 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Or you can use wins to project the likelihood of future wins or making the playoffs, which means of course they are a metric. 

 OK, I suppose there is something to that. But ultimately, wins is an outcome measure that you are trying to predict with metrics. To me that is fundamental to this discussion. The metrics are the many variables that may or may not predict the only important statistic which is wins. So it may be a matter of semantics. To me the metrics are the variables and wins is the outcome measure.

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On 11/1/2019 at 9:33 PM, fansince88 said:

But look at the notoriety peanuts got!

God I hated that cartoon, snoopy is not funny.

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14 hours ago, Mojo44 said:

Wins are not metrics. They are what metrics try to predict.

A win is the ultimate Metric. In fact any great company gets that way because they understand performance is improved by measuring things that matter and that includes measuring quality. It’s what PFF tries to do and assuredly the Bills rate their players down to the quality of technique on specific plays. They just don’t share it with us. Coach McD has mentioned Kaizen before which is Japanese for continuous improvement. Hence “the process.” Major companies have trashed their competition by measuring the right things and then finding the ways and people that improve them. Metrics matter immensely. 

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1 hour ago, FreeMaxB585 said:

we beat the titans when they had mariota..... they are a complete diff team wiithout him. and your right they do have a good defense thats why we only put up 14 points lmao! 7 being on a short field. and thats are best win by far so that really says something, cause mariota is trash and until they benched him they were multiple games below 500. we have beaten all garbage.

 

lmao bro you can do mental gymnastics all you want but there is a reason why he was benched, cause he was trash, all he could throw was check downs so not shocked he had a high completion rate

 

again mental gymnastics, they benched mariota because of turn overs and when he did score some points and yards they were down a crap ton going against prevent, its a FACT that the offense is MORE efficient without him, they stay in games and dont turn it over. just a fact.

 

Punctuation saves lives

 

I'm not your bro, but while you're jumping back and forth between subjects in a blissfully punctuation free screed, do you ever, I dunno, like, look at a box score or peruse a stat sheet or pause to consider some facts? 

 

I do suspect I know the answer, but for the sake of completeness I figured I'd ask

 

I don't need mental gymnastics, I have facts.  Was Mariota lighting the world on fire, No.  Was he doing enough to have his team in the lead or in a close game in 4 of the 6 games he played, yes.  Tannehill has played 2 1/2 games, and while they've been better QBing, it's not been a "completely different team".  In fact if I pasted up 2 games from each of them I bet you couldn't tell who was who. 

 

Let's try shall we?  Here you go, Bright Eyes, tell us which 2 games are Trashy Mariota and which 2 are Terrific Tannehill.  No peekin' at the box scores now.

image.thumb.png.7bfd003d5ad42ec25c97cded55279364.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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THANK YOU for the intelligent and informative replies.  I have coached teams (baseball) for many years.  I KNOW you can't win games with players that have just great metrics.  A guy that hits a HR every few games but is a liability in the field may have wonderful metrics.  Winning games is a statistic that can be measured.  I see the phrase "great metrics" for a player that doesn't have great statistics as a prop. 

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7 hours ago, JDubya76 said:

God I hated that cartoon, snoopy is not funny.

Oh I see what you did there but FYI, it was supposed to teach life lessons, not be funny!!! Youngsters these days.

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7 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

THANK YOU for the intelligent and informative replies.  I have coached teams (baseball) for many years.  I KNOW you can't win games with players that have just great metrics.  A guy that hits a HR every few games but is a liability in the field may have wonderful metrics.  Winning games is a statistic that can be measured.  I see the phrase "great metrics" for a player that doesn't have great statistics as a prop. 

 

Aren't you arguing against your own position?

 

A player that is a liability in the field but perhaps doesn't commit many scored errors would presumably field poorly in ways that could be measured - METRICS

If he hits Home Runs - he might have great KEY PERFORMANCE INDICATORS

 

So he would be bad at something you poo-poo (metrics that aren't KPIs or common statistics) and good at something you extoll (HR, a KPI)

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14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Punctuation saves lives

 

I'm not your bro, but while you're jumping back and forth between subjects in a blissfully punctuation free screed, do you ever, I dunno, like, look at a box score or peruse a stat sheet or pause to consider some facts? 

 

I do suspect I know the answer, but for the sake of completeness I figured I'd ask

 

I don't need mental gymnastics, I have facts.  Was Mariota lighting the world on fire, No.  Was he doing enough to have his team in the lead or in a close game in 4 of the 6 games he played, yes.  Tannehill has played 2 1/2 games, and while they've been better QBing, it's not been a "completely different team".  In fact if I pasted up 2 games from each of them I bet you couldn't tell who was who. 

 

Let's try shall we?  Here you go, Bright Eyes, tell us which 2 games are Trashy Mariota and which 2 are Terrific Tannehill.  No peekin' at the box scores now.

image.thumb.png.7bfd003d5ad42ec25c97cded55279364.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

very simple because mariota turned over the ball and tannehill didnt. again our best win is vs a team we scored 14 points against, a team who also has 3 garbage wins. we didnt do anything vs the 2 teams on the upper half of the league. thats just a fact. I bet you think the bengals was a great win as well. you can pull those box scores all you want but with tannehilll they actually convert 3rd downs. regardless titans arent a top 15 team and anyone whose not a homer would admit that. another team with 3 garbage wins and we only put up 14. we suck vs good defenses, pats, titans, and didnt do anything vs average philly. we have only beaten the lowest of the low. and if really want to convince yourself titans was an amazing win go ahead. thats ONE

Edited by FreeMaxB585

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5 minutes ago, FreeMaxB585 said:

 

very simple because mariota turned over the ball and tannehill didnt. again our best win is vs a team we scored 14 points against, a team who also has 3 garbage wins. we didnt do anything vs the 2 teams on the upper half of the league. thats just a fact. I bet you think the bengals was a great win as well. you can pull those box scores all you want but with tannehilll they actually convert 3rd downs. regardless titans arent a top 15 team and anyone whose not a homer would admit that. another team with 3 garbage wins and we only put up 14. we suck vs good defenses, pats, titans, and didnt do anything vs average philly. we have only beaten the lowest of the low. and if really want to convince yourself titans was an amazing win go ahead. thats ONE

 

So which two are Mariota and which two are Tannehill?  Number 1,2,3,4 from top.  Go!

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So which two are Mariota and which two are Tannehill?  Number 1,2,3,4 from top.  Go!

 

yea the 4-5 titans are so damn good your right. you know mariota was benched for a reason right? and I already said if you want to tell yourself that thats fine, fact is even they are 4-5 with 3 garbage wins and we only scored 14 against them, a d where kyle allen is lighting up. NO wins vs teams with winning records, with numerous vs the worst of the worst

 

im happy we have what have but have to be a little realistic

Edited by FreeMaxB585

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