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Ed O A Pipe Dream or a Dream Team Position Change ?


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Okay i have been thinking about this for a while & i know that you the Bills fans will give your honest & unbiased opinion on it & some of you may even call me a dum ass for suggesting it but my skin has grown pretty thick since posting here so i'll throw this against the wall & see if it sticks .

 

In the Bills past there has been a few players that they had brought on board at one position  have seen some potential in them & thought that that could be utilized better at another position, the one that we most recognize with is of coarse Jason Peters he came to the Bills as a TE & they changed to LT to be one of the best to ever play the position for his entire career ! Oh & don't forget George Wilson changed from WR to a safety or DB what ever it was .

 

The Bills have recently gotten a rookie that was said to play out of position in college (but did better there than what i've seen in the NFL to this point) & that when they brought him here they would put him at a different position better suited for him but to this point i'm not really seeing it .

 

Ed Oliver is the player that i am talking about if you haven't guessed already . Upon him being drafted they said by putting him in the position he is now he would be a lot better player but from what i have seen to this point he is doing okay but the players here in the NFL are so much bigger than him although strong as he may be when you are out weighed by any where from 30 to 60 lbs that's got to be tough !!

 

So i was thinking given his size, his get off & motor would he be better suited to be a DE opposite Hughs ? I've looked at some resent & past DE's in the NFL & he isn't as tall but around the same weight . Boss in SF is 6'4" 260 ish Bruce was 6'4" about the same in weight Oliver is 6' 1" 286 ? witch could give him a advantage at getting under a O lineman to get around him on the edge .

 

I claim to be a fan & want the players the Bills get to have the best opportunity to produce but i don't really see Ed being that super talent at the position in the middle they need more of the Jordan Phillips/Horrible Harry  in the middle than Ed IMHO. So is there anything to this thought or have any of you had the same thought, or is this just a fan dreaming of what might be nothing but  a pipe dream ? 

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As for the actual content of your post- I don't think this is a good idea for 3 reasons: 

 

1- I don't really believe in positions on the defensive line in the NFL. The good teams rotate guys and play guys in the best spot to win one on one matchups. So Oliver seeing time outside wouldn't bother me. 

 

2- The reason he's a DT and not a DE is because of his shorter stature. Typically shorter guys have trouble going against tackles because the don't have the length to bed around the outside. While this shorter stature can be a benefit inside (I.e. Aaron Donald) It's typically a liability outside.

 

3- Lastly, I don't think Oliver is struggling. There have been plenty of metrics showing he's doing his job and getting pressure and creating havoc inside. He hasn't gotten the sacks yet, but that'll come. 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I think you mean dumb ass...

 

dum-dum. You bring me gum-gum.

 

 

Edited by whatdrought
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12 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

As for the actual content of your post- I don't think this is a good idea for 3 reasons: 

 

1- I don't really believe in positions on the defensive line in the NFL. The good teams rotate guys and play guys in the best spot to win one on one matchups. So Oliver seeing time outside wouldn't bother me. 

 

2- The reason he's a DT and not a DE is because of his shorter stature. Typically shorter guys have trouble going against tackles because the don't have the length to bed around the outside. While this shorter stature can be a benefit inside (I.e. Aaron Donald) It's typically a liability outside.

 

3- Lastly, I don't think Oliver is struggling. There have been plenty of metrics showing he's doing his job and getting pressure and creating havoc inside. He hasn't gotten the sacks yet, but that'll come. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the intelligent & insightful answer that i was looking for & figured the normal reply's but hey at least three is one worth reading  !! 

 

I'm not in a area to watch any of the games so i have to see what little i can on video from replay so i don't really know how he is doing although i have seen him in the back field a few times i guess i was just expecting more form his early draft position !

 

Thanks !! 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Ed Oliver is fine where he is. He has played well. He hasn't been dominant yet but it is 7 games. Chill out.

Agreed.  He would also be a difference making DE in a 3-4, but Sean McDermott is not going to switch any time soon.

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I don't think it would hurt if Oliver put more mass on his frame - maybe about 20 lbs, it he is going to stay a 3 tech DT.  If Oliver can't get off the Guard's block, he gets pushed out of the play.

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I don’t think he needs to move. I think he’ll end up doing well at his position. That said, it is not the worst idea from a physical standpoint. Most people think of ends as taller and more angular. But Robert Mathis played at 6’2”, 245 lbs. Ed is quick and strong. He could be a bigger version. The questions are 1) does his quickness hold up for the increased distance to get around quicker and longer tackles vs. the “phone booth” of guards and 2) how long would it take for him to adjust and learn the position/techniques. 

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Yes, Oliver seems undersized by current NFL standards and I worried about that the moment we drafted him.

 

Some guys can overcome that and their size doesn't matter in the final analysis.

 

I think it's too early to draw a conclusion about Oliver and his size being a problem.

 

 

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I see your point.   They did move Ed around to the left side for a few snaps last game.   Everyone is learning how to play together on that line, especially Ed.

 

He's graded out pretty well this year so far, the one thing i was worried about was him not having enough anchor to play inside, we all know he's twitchy and quick.   But he doesn't get steamrolled at all, even giving up 50lbs to the average NFL guard and being doubled frequently.

 

One thing to consider:   Levon Kirkland, the all-pro inside LB for the Steelers was exactly the same size as Ed, 6'1 280 ish.    Ed's numbers at the combine were LB numbers, far faster and more agile than Kirkland ever was. 

 

Now I'm not proposing we put Ed in the middle LB position (imagine McD and Frasier laughing at that idea) however, in a short yardage packages, when Star and Jordan are inside, what if we put Ed as a backer, or even at edge as the OP proposed.    Here you go Ed,  this is your gap.  Thump away.

 

Anyway here is what scouts generally use a minimum measurable for ILB's.

 

40-yard dash: Minimum Target: 4.80
10-yard split: Minimum Target: 1.70
Vertical jump: Minimum Target: 33”
Broad jump: Minimum Target: 9’6”
3 cone drill: Minimum Target: 7.20
20-yard shuttle: Minimum Target: 4.20
Bench press: Minimum Target: 24

 

Size-wise, Oliver is basically Aaron Donald.

  • Donald at the 2014 combine: 6’1, 285 pounds
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 6’1, 287 pounds

In the 40-yard dash, Oliver is basically Arian Foster.

  • Foster at the 2009 combine: 4.69 seconds
  • Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 4.73 seconds (Milano 4.67)

In the bench press, Oliver is basically Ndamukong Suh.

  • Suh at the 2010 combine: 32 reps
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 32 reps

In the shuttle run, Oliver is basically Le’Veon Bell.

  • Bell at the 2013 combine: 4.25 seconds
  • Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 4.22 seconds

In the three-cone drill, Oliver is basically Jason Pierre-Paul.

  • Pierre-Paul at the 2010 combine: 7.18 seconds
  • Oliver at his pro day, reportedly: 7.15 seconds

In the vertical jump, Oliver is basically Von Miller.

  • Miller at the 2011 combine: 37 inches
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 36 inches

In the broad jump, Oliver is J.J. Watt or Amari Cooper

  • Watt at the 2011 combine: 120 inches
  • Cooper at the 2015 combine: 120 inches
  • Oliver at the 2019 combine: 120 inches

So maybe there are some more creative ways to use the guy as a specialist.

 

 

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