Mark Schofield: Precarious Handling of Young Quarterbacks

[Thurman#1]

Terrific article on HT work on deciding how much autonomy to give a young QB.

 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2019/10/22/ruining-quarterbacks-2-0-zheng-he-admiral-james-stavridis-and-the-precarious-handling-of-young-quarterbacks/

 

Full title: Ruining Quarterbacks 2.0: Zheng He, Admiral James Stavridis and the Precarious Handling of Young Quarterbacks

 

 

 

 

Two short excerpts from a fairly long and thoughtful article:

 

 

First:  

"Those of us who cover the game, particularly from an evaluation standpoint, have devoted hours and hours to the concept of developing quarterbacks. Given the importance of the position, the hours spent studying the position, and the various ways teams have approached the development question, it is stunning that in the year 2019 we still do not have a firm grasp of the right approach to take when turning a young draft prospect into an upper-level quarterback talent.

"With the depth of human knowledge at our disposal, we still cannot crack this code. While we can put men and women into space, prepare for a voyage to Mars, travel around the globe in hours and not years, and unlock the vast wealth of human knowledge by simply unlocking our phones, we cannot find and develop 32 people to play a single position in just one of humanity’s sports. It is almost unfathomable. 

"Now, in the past few years, this question seemed to lose its importance. Perhaps Sean McVay had cracked the code in a way that few could see coming.

"Instead of developing the quarterback the old-fashioned way, by having him sit and learn and then start to learn by doing, and seeing if the QB can “sink or swim,” play him right away and hold his hand the entire way, McVay used the helmet radio rules in his favor, getting Jared Goff to the line of scrimmage early in the play clock so he can continue to relay information to his young passer. The technological version of a college quarterback peering at the sidelines to read big poster boards with funny pictures on them. McVay did not rely on his quarterback to make audibles and changes at the line of scrimmage, he would make them for him.

"For a while, it worked. So much so that teams began to copy the approach. If you so much as waited in line for coffee with McVay you were linked to a head coaching job. Every owner of a team with a young quarterback wanted to find their McVay. People like Matt Nagy, Zac Taylor, and Matt LaFleur were given head coaching jobs. 

"This all seemed to make sense, and the economics of the day backed up this approach. In a piece I wrote for last year’s Pro Football Weekly draft preview I examined how teams were starting to handle their young passers. This is how Dan Hatman, a former NFL scout and the current Director of the Scouting Academy, crystalized the new world for me: 'We don’t have three years to develop QBs anymore. We want them to perform at a high level on their rookie contracts.'

"So that means doing what you can to make them perform during that rookie window. If it means simplifying the offense and holding their hand every step of the way, that is what you do."

 

 

and second ...

 

"Last season the Los Angeles Rams seemed to be the offense and approach everyone wanted to emulate. But in a late-season game against the Detroit Lions—one that the Rams would win—Matt Patricia took the approach that McVay’s jet motion was eye candy. A distraction to draw the defense away from the true intent of the play. 

"So they ignored it.

"That would be a model for teams who faced the Rams later that season, such as the Chicago Bears, the Philadelphia Eagles and of course the New England Patriots to follow.

"Of course, Bill Belichick took things a step further. Since McVay insisted on feeding his quarterback information at the line of scrimmage, creating a situation where Goff had come to 'over-rely on constant and near-instant access to a higher authority,' Belichick severed the connection.

"How? By calling two defensive looks in the huddle. One to show during the early part of the play clock, when McVay could still communicate with his quarterback, and the second to shift into after the rules mandate that the headset radio is turned off.

"Forcing Goff to operate autonomously. 

"The Rams scored three points in that game. 

"Now this season the Rams and their offense continue to struggle. Other elements that teams saw the Patriots implement in Super Bowl 53 are being used against them now, from 6-1 fronts to late shifts to Cover 4 looks in the secondary.

"Although there are more problems beyond the quarterback position, there is still a question as to whether Goff can be counted upon to function outside of what his coach puts in front of him. A similar situation is playing out in Chicago, where Nagy and his young quarterback Mitchell Trubisky are facing an offense at a crossroads. While the offense of a season ago worked well enough to make the team competitive, there are strong signs that when forced to work autonomously and outside simplified designs that defenses know to key on, Trubisky is going to struggle."

 

This article was right in my wheelhouse. Hope you enjoy it as well.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Thurman#1

[CSBill]

Excellent read Thurman, thanks.

 

As I'm processing it, the way he weaves leadership development and trust into the analysis is interesting. He grounds that in character development. I think his point is, the best young leaders earn trust by learning to make good decisions. But a team has to be willing to let them learn those lessons.

 

We can question Josh Allen's football skills, he is still learning and growing in that. And as for decions making development, much of the script is given to him. But we have also seen him when things go off script. In those moments, he has made some incredible plays, and of course, some really big head scratchers.

 

But I think the point is this; good QB--and leadership--development gives room for the decision making, and mistakes of youthful enthusiasm. That is where real growth will occur. I am convinced that in Josh Allen the Bills have the most valuable of attributes a QB needs, a leader his teammates trust. Will he make mistakes, yes, but he is learning and the growth is evident for all to see.

 

And as long as that trajectory continues up, the skills (physical abilities) and mental side (character and trustworthiness) will eventually get to the same place. And in that, you have the combination that makes for a dynamic player and leader.

 

I truly believe the Bills are in good shape at this position for many years ahead.

Edited October 23, 2019 by CSBill

[SoTier]

Why would anybody think that there is some miracle formula for developing quarterbacks -- or other positions?  People are different and they respond differently to the same teaching/training methods.   Maybe McVay isn't the genius his fans think he is -- or maybe Goff (and Trubisky) actually aren't truly as talented as people think.   One or both of those scenarios may or may not be true.

 

Long before Sean McVay, coaches guided young QBs -- and their teams -- to success by tightly orchestrating their play.   Russell Wilson started from the get-go as a rookie.  Ben Roethlisberger was thrown into the first game of his rookie season when Tommy Maddox was injured.

[Hue5711]

I second that, perfect coffee read.

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

Wow, so McVay was changing the play in Goff's headset at the line?   Wow, didn't know Goff was a total robot.   So McVay maybe ruined him by not allowing him to learn from mistakes, not allowing him to checkdown, etc. based on what the defense did?   McVay simply changed the play at the line based on the defense McVay saw and Goff just obeyed?   That kind of control?   Wow...  Maybe that is why young QBs seem to be running around a little lost if the original read isn't there? 

 

did not know the headset is not on all the time.. never knew it cuts off at a certain time in the pre play.  Does anyone know what the headset turn off timing is??  That would be super good to know when watching the play clock wind down.  Interesting.    Thanks OP.    Does Daboll do this with Allen?   I hope not.   If he's just a puppet on a string, how much and by when will he really learn to do on this own? 

Edited October 23, 2019 by ProcessTruster

[IgotBILLStopay]

Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes are the poster boys for having a QB sit and learn. Brady, Josh Allen (when he was hurt last year), Kyle Allen (this year) all benefited from sitting for a bit. Yet the Mannings, Luck, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott are examples of throwing a QB into the deep end right away.

 

Bottomline - every QB is different and no one method will work for everyone. That said, the article is very well written. I did not know the specifics of the Rams with Goff and it makes for an interesting read. Maybe Darnold had the same issue vs. the Pats, eh?

Edited October 23, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay

[billsfan1959]

Ditto @CSBill and @Hue5711- good read, Thurman! 

 

We live in an instant gratification society and we want results now. It is difficult for coaches to keep highly drafted QBs on the bench, even for one year as Reid did with Mahomes, without taking a beating from the media and fan base - or interference from owners. Consequently, coaches, in so many instances, are forced to create "limited" game plans for thier young QBs  that minimize mistakes rather than maximise results. There is no tolerance for the necessary: The mistakes a young QB will make while learning to operate in an ever increasingly complex systems (offensively and defensively). 

 

There is that rare talent that can exceed right away (such as Mahomes - although there is no way of knowing how he would have fared starting immediatelty); however, most QBs that are successful in this league for awhile, need to get through that initial couple of years striking a balance between not making so many mistakes they get benched and showing just enough promise to keep their organization's faith in them.

 

I think this method of limiting game plans can be helpful and harmful. Sometimes it can help that good QB get through the growing pains in a way he stays on the field. Sometimes, it masks the real limitiations of a QB and ends up costing an organization the very thing they didn't want to happen - spending 4 years on a QB only to find out he isn't very good.

 

I still think those QBs that are exceptional talents will find a way to succeed. The QBs at the levels below them that are most affected in good and bad ways.

 

[H2o]

I have been very reluctant to recognize Goff as one of the top young QB's in this league for the fact that McVay is the brains behind the operation. I think that the blueprint provided by a BB understudy like Patricia has pretty much sealed that team's fate. Couple that with an aging, suspect OL, and Todd Gurley's rapid decline leave you with what you see this year. Now if Goff can become self-sufficient, making the adjustments, reads, and checks at the line himself then things may be different down the road. Many times he looks like a deer in the headlights out there. He just got paid a ton of money by LA though for basically being a puppet. I love what I have seen from Josh this year, despite the mistakes made, and see true growth in our young QB. One would be a fool to say that they haven't seen improvement in Jackson as well, even though I worry about him reverting to his old ways the further we get into the season. Right now he and Josh are looking like the top two QB's from last year's draft with Mayfield taking a step back and Darnold looking like the same player from his Junior year at USC. 

 

In this day and age no one is going to sit a QB for multiple years ala Aaron Rodgers. Front office and coaching leashes are much shorter now than they used to be before. Every regime that comes in wants their guy at the helm and they basically sink or swim from that. See Kingsbury and the Arizona Cardinals. You have to build around your young QB. You have to put them in situations to succeed. You have to play off of his strengths and hopefully build until the weaknesses are no longer that. Outside of Daboll calling in a few head scratchers at times, I feel that is exactly what we are doing with Josh and you can see the improvement from year one to year two. I see improvement in the same manner with Lamar, though him running as much as he does and coming back to earth since the Miami game make me wonder if it is sustainable. Even Vick, who was built like a RB, started coming up with injuries due to that playing style. But what can you do if you are Baltimore? You work with him to continue to make him better, but you have to let him do what he does out there on the field. 

 

Another thing to consider when looking at today's QB's is the college game itself. It's mainly Spread formations, RPO, a lot of dual threat QB's, and not really much traditional QB play anymore. Where a QB has 5 to 7 seconds at times in college to read a defense, and allow things to open up, you only have 3 in the NFL for the most part on any given play. Where guys in college can wait for their guy to come open so they can throw the ball, now they are forced to read where the man will be open and throw with anticipation. Many of these young QB's have a hard time with that, processing the information from pre-snap to the release of the pass. All of the greats have had the mental aptitude to succeed in the game. Brady, Manning, Brees, Marino, Kelly, Montana, Rodgers, Steve Young, Ben Ro, Favre, Rivers, and the rest are/were very cerebral in their approach processing what they see on the field quickly. With the way college offenses are run these days there aren't many who are developed for those 3 or 4 years in this regard in the college game. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by H2o

[Royale with Cheese]

29 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Wow, so McVay was changing the play in Goff's headset at the line?   Wow, didn't know Goff was a total robot.   So McVay maybe ruined him by not allowing him to learn from mistakes, not allowing him to checkdown, etc. based on what the defense did?   McVay simply changed the play at the line based on the defense McVay saw and Goff just obeyed?   That kind of control?   Wow...  did not know the headset is not on all the time.. never knew it cuts off at a certain time in the pre play.  Does anyone know what the headset turn off timing is??  That would be super good to know when watching the play clock wind down.  Interesting.    Thanks OP.    Does Daboll do this with Allen?   I hope not.   If he's just a puppet on the string, how much and by when will he really learn to do on this own? 

I was pretty surprised too.  It’s like McVay is playing a human form of Madden.  That’s got to be so much fun.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Terrific article on HT work on deciding how much autonomy to give a young QB.

 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2019/10/22/ruining-quarterbacks-2-0-zheng-he-admiral-james-stavridis-and-the-precarious-handling-of-young-quarterbacks/

 

Full title: Ruining Quarterbacks 2.0: Zheng He, Admiral James Stavridis and the Precarious Handling of Young Quarterbacks

 

 

 

 

Two short excerpts from a fairly long and thoughtful article:

 

 

First:  

"Those of us who cover the game, particularly from an evaluation standpoint, have devoted hours and hours to the concept of developing quarterbacks. Given the importance of the position, the hours spent studying the position, and the various ways teams have approached the development question, it is stunning that in the year 2019 we still do not have a firm grasp of the right approach to take when turning a young draft prospect into an upper-level quarterback talent.

"With the depth of human knowledge at our disposal, we still cannot crack this code. While we can put men and women into space, prepare for a voyage to Mars, travel around the globe in hours and not years, and unlock the vast wealth of human knowledge by simply unlocking our phones, we cannot find and develop 32 people to play a single position in just one of humanity’s sports. It is almost unfathomable. 

"Now, in the past few years, this question seemed to lose its importance. Perhaps Sean McVay had cracked the code in a way that few could see coming.

"Instead of developing the quarterback the old-fashioned way, by having him sit and learn and then start to learn by doing, and seeing if the QB can “sink or swim,” play him right away and hold his hand the entire way, McVay used the helmet radio rules in his favor, getting Jared Goff to the line of scrimmage early in the play clock so he can continue to relay information to his young passer. The technological version of a college quarterback peering at the sidelines to read big poster boards with funny pictures on them. McVay did not rely on his quarterback to make audibles and changes at the line of scrimmage, he would make them for him.

"For a while, it worked. So much so that teams began to copy the approach. If you so much as waited in line for coffee with McVay you were linked to a head coaching job. Every owner of a team with a young quarterback wanted to find their McVay. People like Matt Nagy, Zac Taylor, and Matt LaFleur were given head coaching jobs. 

"This all seemed to make sense, and the economics of the day backed up this approach. In a piece I wrote for last year’s Pro Football Weekly draft preview I examined how teams were starting to handle their young passers. This is how Dan Hatman, a former NFL scout and the current Director of the Scouting Academy, crystalized the new world for me: 'We don’t have three years to develop QBs anymore. We want them to perform at a high level on their rookie contracts.'

"So that means doing what you can to make them perform during that rookie window. If it means simplifying the offense and holding their hand every step of the way, that is what you do."

 

 

and second ...

 

"Last season the Los Angeles Rams seemed to be the offense and approach everyone wanted to emulate. But in a late-season game against the Detroit Lions—one that the Rams would win—Matt Patricia took the approach that McVay’s jet motion was eye candy. A distraction to draw the defense away from the true intent of the play. 

"So they ignored it.

"That would be a model for teams who faced the Rams later that season, such as the Chicago Bears, the Philadelphia Eagles and of course the New England Patriots to follow.

"Of course, Bill Belichick took things a step further. Since McVay insisted on feeding his quarterback information at the line of scrimmage, creating a situation where Goff had come to 'over-rely on constant and near-instant access to a higher authority,' Belichick severed the connection.

"How? By calling two defensive looks in the huddle. One to show during the early part of the play clock, when McVay could still communicate with his quarterback, and the second to shift into after the rules mandate that the headset radio is turned off.

"Forcing Goff to operate autonomously. 

"The Rams scored three points in that game. 

"Now this season the Rams and their offense continue to struggle. Other elements that teams saw the Patriots implement in Super Bowl 53 are being used against them now, from 6-1 fronts to late shifts to Cover 4 looks in the secondary.

"Although there are more problems beyond the quarterback position, there is still a question as to whether Goff can be counted upon to function outside of what his coach puts in front of him. A similar situation is playing out in Chicago, where Nagy and his young quarterback Mitchell Trubisky are facing an offense at a crossroads. While the offense of a season ago worked well enough to make the team competitive, there are strong signs that when forced to work autonomously and outside simplified designs that defenses know to key on, Trubisky is going to struggle."

 

This article was right in my wheelhouse. Hope you enjoy it as well.

 

 

Enjoyed the article thank you!

 

One thing that always seem to strike me with regard to modernity, are the people who believe in a formula, algorithm or some precise way of beating complex situations. Adaptability and adjustment, while giving a nod of respect to bias and procedure, would seem to be the obvious. The competing forces of opposition would seem to dispel the notion of "cracking the code". We struggled for years in the Middle East until General Stanley McCrystal modernized the approach to an Army of adaptable strengths, communication, tactics etc. And, the approach is ever changing, because complex situations can't be viewed strictly in a vacuum.

[billybob71]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Terrific article on HT work on deciding how much autonomy to give a young QB.

 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2019/10/22/ruining-quarterbacks-2-0-zheng-he-admiral-james-stavridis-and-the-precarious-handling-of-young-quarterbacks/

 

Full title: Ruining Quarterbacks 2.0: Zheng He, Admiral James Stavridis and the Precarious Handling of Young Quarterbacks

 

 

 

 

Two short excerpts from a fairly long and thoughtful article:

 

 

First:  

"Those of us who cover the game, particularly from an evaluation standpoint, have devoted hours and hours to the concept of developing quarterbacks. Given the importance of the position, the hours spent studying the position, and the various ways teams have approached the development question, it is stunning that in the year 2019 we still do not have a firm grasp of the right approach to take when turning a young draft prospect into an upper-level quarterback talent.

"With the depth of human knowledge at our disposal, we still cannot crack this code. While we can put men and women into space, prepare for a voyage to Mars, travel around the globe in hours and not years, and unlock the vast wealth of human knowledge by simply unlocking our phones, we cannot find and develop 32 people to play a single position in just one of humanity’s sports. It is almost unfathomable. 

"Now, in the past few years, this question seemed to lose its importance. Perhaps Sean McVay had cracked the code in a way that few could see coming.

"Instead of developing the quarterback the old-fashioned way, by having him sit and learn and then start to learn by doing, and seeing if the QB can “sink or swim,” play him right away and hold his hand the entire way, McVay used the helmet radio rules in his favor, getting Jared Goff to the line of scrimmage early in the play clock so he can continue to relay information to his young passer. The technological version of a college quarterback peering at the sidelines to read big poster boards with funny pictures on them. McVay did not rely on his quarterback to make audibles and changes at the line of scrimmage, he would make them for him.

"For a while, it worked. So much so that teams began to copy the approach. If you so much as waited in line for coffee with McVay you were linked to a head coaching job. Every owner of a team with a young quarterback wanted to find their McVay. People like Matt Nagy, Zac Taylor, and Matt LaFleur were given head coaching jobs. 

"This all seemed to make sense, and the economics of the day backed up this approach. In a piece I wrote for last year’s Pro Football Weekly draft preview I examined how teams were starting to handle their young passers. This is how Dan Hatman, a former NFL scout and the current Director of the Scouting Academy, crystalized the new world for me: 'We don’t have three years to develop QBs anymore. We want them to perform at a high level on their rookie contracts.'

"So that means doing what you can to make them perform during that rookie window. If it means simplifying the offense and holding their hand every step of the way, that is what you do."

 

 

and second ...

 

"Last season the Los Angeles Rams seemed to be the offense and approach everyone wanted to emulate. But in a late-season game against the Detroit Lions—one that the Rams would win—Matt Patricia took the approach that McVay’s jet motion was eye candy. A distraction to draw the defense away from the true intent of the play. 

"So they ignored it.

"That would be a model for teams who faced the Rams later that season, such as the Chicago Bears, the Philadelphia Eagles and of course the New England Patriots to follow.

"Of course, Bill Belichick took things a step further. Since McVay insisted on feeding his quarterback information at the line of scrimmage, creating a situation where Goff had come to 'over-rely on constant and near-instant access to a higher authority,' Belichick severed the connection.

"How? By calling two defensive looks in the huddle. One to show during the early part of the play clock, when McVay could still communicate with his quarterback, and the second to shift into after the rules mandate that the headset radio is turned off.

"Forcing Goff to operate autonomously. 

"The Rams scored three points in that game. 

"Now this season the Rams and their offense continue to struggle. Other elements that teams saw the Patriots implement in Super Bowl 53 are being used against them now, from 6-1 fronts to late shifts to Cover 4 looks in the secondary.

"Although there are more problems beyond the quarterback position, there is still a question as to whether Goff can be counted upon to function outside of what his coach puts in front of him. A similar situation is playing out in Chicago, where Nagy and his young quarterback Mitchell Trubisky are facing an offense at a crossroads. While the offense of a season ago worked well enough to make the team competitive, there are strong signs that when forced to work autonomously and outside simplified designs that defenses know to key on, Trubisky is going to struggle."

 

This article was right in my wheelhouse. Hope you enjoy it as well.

 

 

This is exactly how i feel you gotta let the kid play and learn. Coach him up during the week but on Sunday the QB should be in control of the offense not a guy on the sideline. Let him fail at times in order to learn and come back more prepared and dont take away his natural ability and stifle his creativity. But coaches are on such a short leash and quickly on the hot seat and fans have zero patience to let a guy take his lumps everything is now now now in our society its just the way it is. I actually think the Bills are doing a pretty good job walking this fine line with Allen. Not over coaching just trying to refine whats already there and give him freedom to audible and make him read defenses, dont be so afraid to fail that you play scared with zero aggression, we have all seen this approach way to many times since Kelly.

[Dan]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

Wow, so McVay was changing the play in Goff's headset at the line?   Wow, didn't know Goff was a total robot.   So McVay maybe ruined him by not allowing him to learn from mistakes, not allowing him to checkdown, etc. based on what the defense did?   McVay simply changed the play at the line based on the defense McVay saw and Goff just obeyed?   That kind of control?   Wow...  Maybe that is why young QBs seem to be running around a little lost if the original read isn't there? 

 

did not know the headset is not on all the time.. never knew it cuts off at a certain time in the pre play.  Does anyone know what the headset turn off timing is??  That would be super good to know when watching the play clock wind down.  Interesting.    Thanks OP.    Does Daboll do this with Allen?   I hope not.   If he's just a puppet on a string, how much and by when will he really learn to do on this own? 

Now imagine if coach of low moral character found a way to keep the headset live and could tell the QB where the blitz was coming from or what the coverage was or whatever he wanted, right up to the snap.  And then he took it a step further and recorded every opponents defensive call and formations.   I mean that team, and QB, could form the foundation for a dynasty the likes of which the sport has never seen.  

[oldmanfan]

My way of saying what the article says is that young QBs have to get the game to slow down.  And it won't happen until they have to make decisions. 

[billsfan1959]

9 minutes ago, Dan said:

Now imagine if coach of low moral character Bill Belichick found a way to keep the headset live and could tell the QB where the blitz was coming from or what the coverage was or whatever he wanted, right up to the snap.  And then he took it a step further and recorded every opponents defensive call and formations.   I mean that team, and QB, could form the foundation for a dynasty the likes of which the sport has never seen.  

FIFY 

[GunnerBill]

Good read. Thanks for sharing. I am very much of the view that the Rams' offensive struggles are much more to do with the league working McVay out than the league working Goff out. I said a lot last season that I didn't think his offense was that innovative. Matt Patricia was right to simply ignore the jet motion as window dressing. The offense is a lot of smoke and a lot of mirrors but when you strip it all back he is basically running the Shanahan stretch zone out of 11 personnel. The key to stopping the stretch zone has always been to take the threat of the run away because most of the big passing plays generated in that style of offense are off play action. Take away the threat of the run, reduce the opportunities available deep in play action and make the offense rely on a more traditional drop back passing game and you can bottle teams running that scheme up somewhat.

 

That is why the Rams paid big $$s to a running back with a dodgy knee. They knew Gurley was critical to making the offense go. Unfortunately for them he got injured. Then their oline aged and started to look a bit pricey. They decided to move on from John Sullivan, Roger Saffold left in free agency and suddenly the offensive line isn't winning up front and their formerly world class back has become positively average. It should be no surprise whatsoever to anyone paying attention that the team that really exposed the offense was the San Francisco 49ers coached by Kyle Shanahan.... he knows the key to that scheme better than anyone... his dad was basically the architect of the NFL version of the stretch zone scheme as a branch off from the west coast offense.  When you don't have the all-pro back and you don't have much of an oline and people have started ignoring your eye candy your offense quite quickly looks dull, uninspired and a bit incoherent...... think more Rick Dennison version of the stretch zone than Gary Kubiak stretch zone.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Terrific article on HT work on deciding how much autonomy to give a young QB.

 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2019/10/22/ruining-quarterbacks-2-0-zheng-he-admiral-james-stavridis-and-the-precarious-handling-of-young-quarterbacks/

 

Full title: Ruining Quarterbacks 2.0: Zheng He, Admiral James Stavridis and the Precarious Handling of Young Quarterbacks

"Now, in the past few years, this question seemed to lose its importance. Perhaps Sean McVay had cracked the code in a way that few could see coming.

"Instead of developing the quarterback the old-fashioned way, by having him sit and learn and then start to learn by doing, and seeing if the QB can “sink or swim,” play him right away and hold his hand the entire way, McVay used the helmet radio rules in his favor, getting Jared Goff to the line of scrimmage early in the play clock so he can continue to relay information to his young passer. The technological version of a college quarterback peering at the sidelines to read big poster boards with funny pictures on them. McVay did not rely on his quarterback to make audibles and changes at the line of scrimmage, he would make them for him.

"Last season the Los Angeles Rams seemed to be the offense and approach everyone wanted to emulate. But in a late-season game against the Detroit Lions—one that the Rams would win—Matt Patricia took the approach that McVay’s jet motion was eye candy. A distraction to draw the defense away from the true intent of the play. 

"So they ignored it.

"That would be a model for teams who faced the Rams later that season, such as the Chicago Bears, the Philadelphia Eagles and of course the New England Patriots to follow.

"Of course, Bill Belichick took things a step further. Since McVay insisted on feeding his quarterback information at the line of scrimmage, creating a situation where Goff had come to 'over-rely on constant and near-instant access to a higher authority,' Belichick severed the connection.

"How? By calling two defensive looks in the huddle. One to show during the early part of the play clock, when McVay could still communicate with his quarterback, and the second to shift into after the rules mandate that the headset radio is turned off.

"Forcing Goff to operate autonomously. 

"The Rams scored three points in that game. 

"Now this season the Rams and their offense continue to struggle. Other elements that teams saw the Patriots implement in Super Bowl 53 are being used against them now, from 6-1 fronts to late shifts to Cover 4 looks in the secondary.

"Although there are more problems beyond the quarterback position, there is still a question as to whether Goff can be counted upon to function outside of what his coach puts in front of him. A similar situation is playing out in Chicago, where Nagy and his young quarterback Mitchell Trubisky are facing an offense at a crossroads. While the offense of a season ago worked well enough to make the team competitive, there are strong signs that when forced to work autonomously and outside simplified designs that defenses know to key on, Trubisky is going to struggle."

 

Great find!  And with Allen's struggles with the Patriots and the Patriot-coaching-tree offenses, it does give perspective.  I had wondered if the get-to-the-line-early, get-advice-from sideline was an approach the Bills were using and/or should use.

 

This would argue - "no", it's a crutch that can fail at the worst times.

I would like to note that while I don't believe Daboll is copying McVay's approach, Belicheck seems to be successfully utilizing something he did in that game against the rookie QBs.  He is shifting defensive looks just before the snap, and literally forcing them to "think twice".

 

I believe we did that to Sam in the first Jets game as well.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great find!  And with Allen's struggles with the Patriots and the Patriot-coaching-tree offenses, it does give perspective.  I had wondered if the get-to-the-line-early, get-advice-from sideline was an approach the Bills were using and/or should use.

 

This would argue - "no", it's a crutch that can fail at the worst times.

I would like to note that while I don't believe Daboll is copying McVay's approach, Belicheck seems to be successfully utilizing something he did in that game against the rookie QBs.  He is shifting defensive looks just before the snap, and literally forcing them to "think twice".

 

I believe we did that to Sam in the first Jets game as well.

 

 

 

The Bills change coverages late a lot. It is why Poyer and Hyde are so critical. They communicate with one another amazingly well. Try watching the games back sometime and on defense just watch Hyde and Poyer from the moment the offense gets to the line. They are constantly making subtle little signals to one another. I suspect if one of them were out for any length of time the Bills would have to simplify what they do on the back end somewhat because those two are absolutely critical to making the whole thing go. I am firmly in the pay Poyer camp.

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

Wow, so McVay was changing the play in Goff's headset at the line?   Wow, didn't know Goff was a total robot.   So McVay maybe ruined him by not allowing him to learn from mistakes, not allowing him to checkdown, etc. based on what the defense did?   McVay simply changed the play at the line based on the defense McVay saw and Goff just obeyed?   That kind of control?   Wow...  Maybe that is why young QBs seem to be running around a little lost if the original read isn't there? 

 

did not know the headset is not on all the time.. never knew it cuts off at a certain time in the pre play.  Does anyone know what the headset turn off timing is??  That would be super good to know when watching the play clock wind down.  Interesting.    Thanks OP.    Does Daboll do this with Allen?   I hope not.   If he's just a puppet on a string, how much and by when will he really learn to do on this own? 

 

Supposed to be turned off 15 seconds prior to the expiration of the play clock.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

Wow, so McVay was changing the play in Goff's headset at the line?   Wow, didn't know Goff was a total robot.   So McVay maybe ruined him by not allowing him to learn from mistakes, not allowing him to checkdown, etc. based on what the defense did?   McVay simply changed the play at the line based on the defense McVay saw and Goff just obeyed?   That kind of control?   Wow...  Maybe that is why young QBs seem to be running around a little lost if the original read isn't there? 

 

did not know the headset is not on all the time.. never knew it cuts off at a certain time in the pre play.  Does anyone know what the headset turn off timing is??  That would be super good to know when watching the play clock wind down.  Interesting.    Thanks OP.    Does Daboll do this with Allen?   I hope not.   If he's just a puppet on a string, how much and by when will he really learn to do on this own? 

 

It's supposed to cut off 15 seconds into the 30 second playclock eg 15 seconds before the snap

 

So what the Rams were doing was coming to the line quickly, which forced the D to come to the line quickly.  Then McVay would make the read and change the play before the (legal) radio cut off.

 

[Rumor was, and there was enough "smoke" about it that it may be true, that early on in Brady**'s career, the Patriots*** found a way to circumvent the radio shutoff (2nd radio perhaps?) and Belicheck**** was able to help Brady up until right before the snap.  He doesn't need that now, of course, but even for an experienced QB having an "eye in the sky" who can quickly spot and decode defensive patterns would be invaluable. 

 

Especially if you've been videotaping other team's practices for extra help indecoding their defensive play call signals.]

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

"With the depth of human knowledge at our disposal, we still cannot crack this code. While we can put men and women into space, prepare for a voyage to Mars, travel around the globe in hours and not years, and unlock the vast wealth of human knowledge by simply unlocking our phones, we cannot find and develop 32 people to play a single position in just one of humanity’s sports. It is almost unfathomable. 

 

This part stood out to me, because it's just a silly argument.

 

The NFL absolutely DOES have 32 guys who can play the Quarterback position very well. 

In fact, every QB that has managed to make a professional roster is extremely good at the sport.

 

But there are always going to be a handful who play BETTER than everyone else.  And it's those top guys who are going to set the standard around the league.  The worst starting QB in the NFL would be ridiculously good against 99 percent of football competition around the world.  But since he's not on the level of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Patrick Mahomes, etc. -- fans consider that player bad.