When is Allen going to have "that game", and do you care?

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Seeing as that was one QB of the several that I mentioned, and that the point of discussion was the rookie first round deals, I’d say you both missed the point in an obvious crusade attempt.

 

You are confused. I am FAR too lazy to crusade on anything!  ?

 

But if you want to say Bridgewater is not playing well, you open yourself to question, or far worse. YOU mentioned him, I didn’t bring him up.  I’ll leave the “worse” to others, but it’s easy pickins’. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Augie

[Locomark]

Beating Dallas on Thanksgiving would be a nice way to make a statement for the kid. Basically the way this team calls games he is never going to be given chances at 300 yard games unless someone takes an 8 yard crossing pattern 75 yards. 

[MR8]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don’t get the JP Losman comparator at all - yeah, he had a big arm, but I remember him as being a statue, with negligible pocket sense.  He also had very poor passing production in terms of YPG even though his completion % was OK.  

 

That’s not to say JA is going to be Our Guy much less that he’s there yet, just to say that I don’t get the JP Losman comparison

 

You remember entirely wrong, he was a mobile QB with incredible arm talent coming out of college. He was considered an "improvisational QB" because hed move out of the pocket to throw or run when protection broke down. 

 

I'm not directly saying they're the same since they have some different strengths and weaknesses... Merely pointing out Allen's top and bottom end.

 

I'll be honest people on here love a good comparison butt jump on one that says he'll be bad... You didn't argue that he isn't Rodgers despite the insanely large disparity in this two at this point but rather chose to go after my bottom end comparison... To be 100% fair he'll never be EXACTLY Rodgers just like he'll never be EXACTLY Losman, but those are 2 ends of the similar spectrum that Allen is on. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Beating Dallas on Thanksgiving would be a nice way to make a statement for the kid. Basically the way this team calls games he is never going to be given chances at 300 yard games unless someone takes an 8 yard crossing pattern 75 yards. 

 

I’ll have a couple dozen people at my house that day. Fortunately it’s one of two meals all year that doesn’t fall on me to prepare. I’ll be a MUCH better host if that games goes well! 

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 minutes ago, MR8 said:

 

You remember entirely wrong, he was a mobile QB with incredible arm talent coming out of college. He was considered an "improvisational QB" because hed move out of the pocket to throw or run when protection broke down. 

 

I'm not directly saying they're the same since they have some different strengths and weaknesses... Merely pointing out Allen's top and bottom end.

 

I'll be honest people on here love a good comparison butt jump on one that says he'll be bad... You didn't argue that he isn't Rodgers despite the insanely large disparity in this two at this point but rather chose to go after my bottom end comparison... To be 100% fair he'll never be EXACTLY Rodgers just like he'll never be EXACTLY Losman, but those are 2 ends of the similar spectrum that Allen is on. 

I’d say his floor is more Bortles or EJ than JP.

[Bangarang]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be mistaken, but yes, I think that’s a pretty reasonable interpretation of what Bringbackorton is saying - something about he wants us to draft a QB high next year.

Not sure that means he wants to cut bait right now. We heard a lot this offseason that we’ll have a better idea about Allen after this season. More competition may not be a bad thing. I guess it depends by what he means when he says he wants to draft a QB high.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Bangarang

[CincyBillsFan]

26 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I’ll take the intangibles, the drive to win, fierce competitiveness and a willingness to do whatever it takes to pull out a W in the end, over all the high yardage games in the world that start with L. This kid just has “it,” imho, and we will go plenty far with him, mark it. That will also include some blowout W’s with plenty of TDs—I mean heck, he put up 5 against a better version of this Miami team already in his rook year so we know he’s capable of that too. Right now the Bills are choosing to play complementary ball to the D’s strengths. Could/should today have gone better in terms of style points? Sure, but I’ll happily take my W and move on to Philly in the meantime. 

 

And don't forget his amazing performances in the 4th quarter.  According to the NFL's official site after today Allen now has a QB rating of 139.6 in the 4th quarter this season!  That's close to perfection and every one of those 4th quarters was in a closely contested game. 

 

Allen's play in the 4th quarter demonstrates that he's clutch and that sooner rather then later the gaudy stats will follow.  But first things first,  lets keep getting wins.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That Bridgewater who SUCKS is currently rocking 69% completions, 6.9 YPA, 218 ypg, 7 TD and 2 INT in 4 starts, and his team is 4-0 in those starts.

And yes, I’d be OK with that level of play from Allen - have you watched him?

 

Either you don’t watch much football, or you’re rolling out opinions you can’t really defend to roil things up.

 

 

Lol outside of the INTs (5 of which were in 2 games) that is basically Allen's production/level of play.  

 

And we're 5-0 in games he's played in start to finish. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Big Blitz

[Boatdrinks]

36 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

He sucked in Minnesota.

Most teams are really stupid and bad. The teams that are good have good QB’s.

I’ll agree that the good teams have good QBs. This is not groundbreaking though. Are most teams stupid and bad and have no idea what they are doing ? Or is there a heck of a lot of luck involved in finding a QB ? If most are just bad and stupid, ( unlike NE who not only drafted Brady, but cleverly waited until the 6th round to do so ) their owners should mine the fertile territory of the TBD boards for up and coming GM talent. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I’ll agree that the good teams have good QBs. This is not groundbreaking though. Are most teams stupid and bad and have no idea what they are doing ? Or is there a heck of a lot of luck involved in finding a QB ? If most are just bad and stupid, ( unlike NE who not only drafted Brady, but cleverly waited until the 6th round to do so ) their owners should mine the fertile territory of the TBD boards for up and coming GM talent. 

You’re the one who just said you would have walked away from Winston and Mariota way earlier. Yeah I think they’re stupid.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, MR8 said:

 

You remember entirely wrong, he was a mobile QB with incredible arm talent coming out of college. He was considered an "improvisational QB" because hed move out of the pocket to throw or run when protection broke down. 

 

I'm not directly saying they're the same since they have some different strengths and weaknesses... Merely pointing out Allen's top and bottom end.

 

I'll be honest people on here love a good comparison butt jump on one that says he'll be bad... You didn't argue that he isn't Rodgers despite the insanely large disparity in this two at this point but rather chose to go after my bottom end comparison... To be 100% fair he'll never be EXACTLY Rodgers just like he'll never be EXACTLY Losman, but those are 2 ends of the similar spectrum that Allen is on. 

 

When someone says “I’ll be honest” my bull#### detector usually goes off.  Not saying this is bs or that I endorse the comparison to Rodgers, but I really think all you can conclude is that I personally found the comparison to Losman inept.  It smacks of the “agenda” to generalize to “people on here” or complain about a point that isn’t contested.

 

I sit corrected about how Losman was scouted coming out of college, but the fact is he never rushed very effectively with the Bills (look up stats).  So put that together with his low passing yards production, and Allen has already exceeded him as a floor, as he has for EJ Manuel (another poor comparator being brought up here.

 

Bortles might be a better choice as a “floor”

[MJS]

Last year against the Dolphins. 5 TD's.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

You’re the one who just said you would have walked away from Winston and Mariota way earlier. Yeah I think they’re stupid.

I would have , they didn’t show enough imo. That’s two teams, not most. I wouldn’t have even taken Winston as he is an idiot, but that’s another story altogether lol. 

[KOKBILLS]

He's going to have to fix his deep ball yips to have a BIG game...and that's pretty much what I think it is now...If he was just inaccurate he would get a lot closer...This is mental IMHO...He's missing by WAY too much, too often...I mean...it's inaccurate too...but...Anyway...

 

I do care, but as long as they are winning it's OK...I''m a Josh fan for sure...The truth is he's improved his short to intermediate by quite a lot...And he just started his 17th game...He is leading and learning fast enough to make me still hopeful all the real good is coming...We'll see...?

[Jerome007]

Last year I didn't care as I thought as soon he had some time to throw and some speedy receivers, it would happen that in one game he had a couple of super deep passes so easily topped 300 yards - I mean last year he was a couple of drops away from 300 yards at least two times. This year, he has had good pockets and has speedy receivers, yet for some reason the deep balls are way off. Last year he missed by less than a yard now it's by five. Weird, and probably more mental than skills.

 

Yet... the team wins and he IS a big part of those wins. I'm actually wanting to see a monster game so some of the negative Bills fans give him a break on here! The team is 5-1 with the loss coming to closely fought game against the SB champ yet you'd think the Bills are 1-5 with some of the posts. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah the ones who didn’t get that deal SUCKED. Mariota (lost his job to Tannehill). Winston (SUCKS). Manziel (SUCKS.) Paxton Lynch (SUCKS). Bridgewater knee exploded and (SUCKS). 

 

Is that your argument? Allen is like those dudes?

 

56 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I’d have moved on sooner than each of their teams did, except Bridgewater. He’s pretty good and it was an injury situation.  Not arguing anything except that if the Bills are winning, they’re unlikely to get rid of Allen after year 2. Does that make sense?  

I think that ship sailed on Mariota awhile ago or it should have anyway. 

 

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

I would have , they didn’t show enough imo. That’s two teams, not most. I wouldn’t have even taken Winston as he is an idiot, but that’s another story altogether lol. 

It’s actually 4 and it’s the 4 teams who have drafted 1st round QB’s in the last 5 years, except for the Jags and Bortles (who I imagine you didn’t think was the guy either lol). AKA, you think you were smarter than those 4 or 5 teams. The other teams drafted Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, Allen, Baker, Darnold, Rosen, Murray.  Most of those QB’s are either too early to tell, or already stars/franchise with the exception of Trubisky and Rosen arguably. 

 

Obviously luck plays a huge part in finding a good QB. That’s not my point. It’s recognizing a bad QB and not falling into the sunk cost fallacy that teams SUCK at. The Bucs have wasted most of Evans’ prime waiting for Winston. They haven’t drafted a QB high yet. The Bills did that for EJ. They waited until 2018 to draft a QB in the first, and EJ lost the job in 2014!!!! That’s malpractice.

[MR8]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

When someone says “I’ll be honest” my bull#### detector usually goes off.  Not saying this is bs or that I endorse the comparison to Rodgers, but I really think all you can conclude is that I personally found the comparison to Losman inept.  It smacks of the “agenda” to generalize to “people on here” or complain about a point that isn’t contested.

 

I sit corrected about how Losman was scouted coming out of college, but the fact is he never rushed very effectively with the Bills (look up stats).  So put that together with his low passing yards production, and Allen has already exceeded him as a floor, as he has for EJ Manuel (another poor comparator being brought up here.

 

Bortles might be a better choice as a “floor”

 

Lol yeah comparing a guy to a future HOFer I totally have an agenda lol...

 

Funny how my comparison of what a guy could be AT WORST is "inept" when you don't even know the scouting on the guy I'm comparing to. 

 

if there is anyone pushing an "agenda" it's not me.

 

Oh and if you take 5 seconds to look backt o how Losman was treated by his coaches, he got a raw shake if I ever saw one

 He would've been better than Bortles hands down. It wasn't as negative as your took it, I actually really liked JP. So anyt time you want to do a second of research and not just react to names being thrown out and make assumptions you can go ahead. 

 

Losman was Allen 15 years ago... Differences are 1 Allen is a much more keen football mind, and is not looked at as arrogant coming in, both were JP flaws. However both were highly debated mobile strong arm project QBs coming out with amazing ceilings and low floors.

 

Losman came into a team with Bledsoe, an established QB all be it a statue at the  twilight of his career. Allen was here with Peterman and a journeyman.  Losman's showy arrogance got him hurt in TC when Troy Vincent gave him a little "pop" and accidentally broke his leg....

 

But from then on Losman's development was mismanaged, and frankly the whole front office back then was a tire fire. 

 

Allen thank GOD has been much better managed to TRY to protect him from himself and give him chances to succeed.

 

Not saying Losman would've been a god, but he was terribly managed but in their prime I'd take Losman over Bortles or EJ any day. So you, in my estimation are being more insulting than I am to Allen.

 

Also the Steelers brought Roethlisberger along by limiting him to about 20 pass attempts per game for the first few years to allow him to learn, while leaning on the run and D.  The Bills are passing more since its a passing league but they're doing something similar as they're using short high percentage passes and relying on the D.  It's smart to bring him along slowly.... Something that wasn't property done with Losman or EJ for that matter ... 

 

Calling Allen Bortles in any way is a far worse insult in my estimation than calling him JP or EJ.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

He sucked in Minnesota.

 

Yeah, you're agitating.  Bridgewater played 1.5 seasons in Minnesota before undergoing a horrific, usually career ending injury.

He didn't light everyone's hair on fire, but to call his performance there "sucking" is to use the word in a way most knowledgeable football folks wouldn't concur.

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

I care. I want to see him have monster games. I want to be one of the best teams in the league making runs in the playoffs led by a great QB.

 

I don’t want him to be Andy Dalton where he’s good enough to win during the regular season but gets slapped around in the playoffs.

 

If we want to talk about how high his ceiling is and how he’s going to be our franchise QB then I’m going to hold him to a high standard. 

The fanbase is content with what Allen is doing, now, because we are winning games and his level of play has proven good enough.

 

That will all change very quickly come playoff time, when all teams are good, and we have to go on the road and win in a harsh environment.  

 

Allen's inconsistency and flaws in his game will be a huge problem.  The fanbase will care then.  

They're just a bit behind right now, that's all.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yeah, you're agitating.  Bridgewater played 1.5 seasons in Minnesota before undergoing a horrific, usually career ending injury.

He didn't light everyone's hair on fire, but to call his performance there "sucking" is to use the word in a way most knowledgeable football folks wouldn't concur.

It was actually 28 games and his numbers were pretty pedestrian. He threw less than 1 TD per start as a sophomore. He was a game manager at best. If you watched the games, (I did) he lived off checkdowns and quick throws. 

 

Its okay though. It’s irrelevant to the larger point, but you know that.