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SlimShady'sGhost

The pirouette. What are the NFL stats on onsides kicks?

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After every replay I’m more impressed with the timing, the height of his jump, and agility. Mostly the timing. It would seem that if Hyde didn’t go an get it, it most likely would have went out of bounds. The Poyer block should be it’s own separate highlight. 

Edited by benderbender

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24 minutes ago, coloradobillsfan said:

 

why not?  the game would have been OVER right at that point.  no hail marys, no chance of further injuries, nothing but 2 kneels and 00:00 on the clock.  Sal C's tweet indicates that MH realized this but couldn't resist when he saw all that daylight.  but what if Brady was the opposing qb, would you really have wanted to give him any chance?  I'm sure he's scored 10 points in 90 seconds in his career before, probably a lot of times.  when you get the chance to close the door, you slam it shut.  that's all I'm sayin

 

I understand all the dynamics. But sheesh, when you have a wide open field to add another 7 points. I think you do it.  The reason is, your reasoning is flawed: There is always a chance of SOMETHING happening. "Just kneel down twice" you say. "Bad snap", I say. "DT calling the OG's sister "a *****", he's distracted and he smacks Josh before he can kneel. Recovers the fumble and scores!!!"  In this game, against this team, I'll take the extra points, thank you.

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4 hours ago, Doc said:


Taking a knee would’ve been smarter.  But I could have sworn that in the past, you couldn’t advance an onsides kick recovery?

 

 

The kicking team cant advance if they recover.  The return team can.

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1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

Completely agree. Said the same when he kicked it. "That's got a chance...", then the return.

 

And if he was going to kneel, he'd do it where he caught it. Is anyone suggesting once he realize he could score that he should have stopped? Are you kidding me?

 

 

 

The book says you knerl ehen grtting the ball be ause buffalo woukd have 3 kneal downs  and the game.

 

if this was say a surprise onside kick then you want the return player to do thst if they can like a receiver or DB but not so with others who 

 

it’s not just with onside kicks but when  the offense gets a 1st down the game is over so the defense lets him score to get the bill back.

 

a game a few years ago the bills beat the Patriots. Bills had the ball and only needed a FZg to win. Buffalo ran plays to bunt the click to get it down to 3 sec and kick. Patriot trackers tried to throw the RB into the end zone ( they were inside the 5) and then the pats got an unsportsmanlike like penalty giving buffalo a first down so thry could just kneal.

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

I understand all the dynamics. But sheesh, when you have a wide open field to add another 7 points. I think you do it.  The reason is, your reasoning is flawed: There is always a chance of SOMETHING happening. "Just kneel down twice" you say. "Bad snap", I say. "DT calling the OG's sister "a *****", he's distracted and he smacks Josh before he can kneel. Recovers the fumble and scores!!!"  In this game, against this team, I'll take the extra points, thank you.

 

how many times has a game been lost by a bad snap in victory formation, vs. how many times has a game been lost by a team giving up 10 or more points in the last 90 seconds.  I'll contend that the latter is much more probable and this would determine the validity of the reasoning.  

Edited by coloradobillsfan
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12 minutes ago, coloradobillsfan said:

 

how many times has a game been lost by a bad snap in victory formation, vs. how many times has a game been lost by a team giving up 10 or more points in the last 90 seconds.  I'll contend that the latter is much more probable and this would determine the validity of the reasoning.  

 

 

No doubt. In a vacuum, taking a knee is more likely to succeed. Game isn't played in a vacuum. In this case, either way probably isn't that big of an issue. Bills up by 10. Fins need to be otherworldly to succeed. Bills just need to be relatively competent.  It ain't the Pats* and the Bills have a young QB and team. Even so, I'm guessing the cold hard odds are to kneel. 

 

I'm wondering if Farwell gave them those instructions before hand. If he did, then I concede, Hyde should have kneeled. In situations like that (eg, hail mary knockdown/don't intercept) you should be stressing what you need on that one, particular, unusual play). The player's instinct is to get the ball and score. In this case, I think I like what he decided to do.

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3 hours ago, NoSaint said:


Was it Fred that did that very thing - giving himself up before the end zone to seal the win?

 

If you're talking about the win against that Patriots in 2011, he tried to score and it was called a TD. However, it was overturned and placed at the one, where the Bills took knees to run the clock down and kicked the chip shot FG as time expired to win.

 

*Disclaimer - my memory can be a bit... uh... cloudy. Yeah, cloudy is an appropriate descriptor.*

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You see daylight.  Run there as fast as you can.  He did it right imo

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Micah Hyde made that play because Micah Hyde is smarter than everybody else on the field at any given time. If he had any doubt he would have kneeled.

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THREE little words - Music City Miracle!  - Sixteen Seconds left on the clock...

Quote

After the Bills had taken a 16–15 lead on a field goal with 16 seconds remaining in the game, Titans tight end Frank Wycheck threw a lateral pass across the field to Kevin Dyson on the ensuing kickoff return, and Dyson then ran 75 yards to score the winning touchdown and earn a 22–16 victory.

 

^^^^^^^ This is why you go down before the end zone. If Hyde gave himself up the Bills would have had the ball 1st and 10 at the one yard line and would have been able to run out the clock to end the game.

 

I remember clear as day nearly 20 years ago, I was jumping for joy that we had won the AFC Wildcard game.  The next thing I look over and wonder what the hell was going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

SIXTEEN F___ng SECONDS!

 

This is a Chess vs Checkers thing.

Edited by cd1

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16 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Micah Hyde made that play because Micah Hyde is smarter than everybody else on the field at any given time. If he had any doubt he would have kneeled.

He said he should've gone down on that play after the game citing the chance of giving the Fins the ball back still with the minute chance to get two scores.  He goes down there and the game is over.

Edited by Doc Brown
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16 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He said he should've gone down on that play after the game citing the chance of giving the Fins the ball back still with the minute chance to get two scores.  He goes down there and the game is over.

 

So Micah Hyde surveyed all options in the space time continuum and considered going for the TD at that given moment the optimal choice. Come on Doc, you know this.

 

Yeah you're probably right, but whatever. It was awesome.

Edited by Nelius

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6 hours ago, Doc said:


Taking a knee would’ve been smarter.  But I could have sworn that in the past, you couldn’t advance an onsides kick recovery?

Kicking teams cannot advance an onside kick iirc

 

Returning teams can. Bills did it in 99 I believe , last time I saw it

35 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He said he should've gone down on that play after the game citing the chance of giving the Fins the ball back still with the minute chance to get two scores.  He goes down there and the game is over.

They literally had 140 left down 10 with no Timeouts. They had about .001% chance even less

 

The same percentage that Allen could fumble the victory formation and give them the ball back twice in 140

 

Same odds honestly

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2 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

So Micah Hyde surveyed all options in the space time continuum and considered going for the TD at that given moment the optimal choice. Come on Doc, you know this.

 

Yeah you're probably right, but whatever. It was awesome.

Now that I think of it in case of some crazy tiebreaker net points could make the difference so I guess.  He'd be criticized ad nauseam if Fitz came back to tie/win it though.

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2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

They literally had 140 left down 10 with no Timeouts. They had about .001% chance even less

 

The same percentage that Allen could fumble the victory formation and give them the ball back twice in 140

 

Same odds honestly

Pry not.  Let's say they kick it to the Fins and they return it for a touchdown (not a stretch given this franchises history).  They then get the onside kick with a minute or so left and have a chance to tie or win the game.  It was a mental error that Hyde admitted to after the game.  When you're running full speed like that and only see the endzone in front of you I can understand going for the touchdown.  However, Jamaal Williams was in a similar situation against the Lions last Monday Night and fell at the one yard line so the Lions wouldn't get the ball back.  It was an awesome play but ultimately stupid.

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1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Pry not.  Let's say they kick it to the Fins and they return it for a touchdown (not a stretch given this franchises history).  They then get the onside kick with a minute or so left and have a chance to tie or win the game.  It was a mental error that Hyde admitted to after the game.  When you're running full speed like that and only see the endzone in front of you I can understand going for the touchdown.  However, Jamaal Williams was in a similar situation against the Lions last Monday Night and fell at the one yard line so the Lions wouldn't get the ball back.  It was an awesome play but ultimately stupid.

Onside kicks are dead as people say with 0% rate, so they'd have a 0% chance still up by 2 scores (lions game was just 1), either way micah deserved this return for his top notch playing this season

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45 minutes ago, motorj said:

Onside kicks are dead as people say with 0% rate, so they'd have a 0% chance still up by 2 scores (lions game was just 1), either way micah deserved this return for his top notch playing this season

Bears recovered one today.  Eight percent success rate last year with same rules.  I don't care what he deserves.  If he falls down it's almost a guaranteed victory as you rarely see a fumbled snap on a kneel down.

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9 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

There hasn't been an onsides kick recovered by the kicking team yet this year therefore it's more likely to be returned for a TD than recovered by the kicking team.


 

On-side was recovered on the same day by Chicago and they nearly got a second on-side recovery - minus the guys toe being out of bounds as he recovered it.

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HaHaHa.. While watching the game with my wife, when I believe Lofton described it as a "pirouette", I burst out laughing. I said that I don't think I've ever heard that word while watching an NFL game.... Spin, twist.. etc... Just made us laugh.   But I tried to remind her of Tasker in a playoff game vs the Raiders in a freezing cold playoff game catching a line drive onside kick and nearly taking it all the way.

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6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Kicking teams cannot advance an onside kick iirc

 

 sorry to interrupt, but I remember Steelers vs Cowboys SB XXX - Steelers recovered their onside kick and the guy could advance/progress. Did the rules changed since ?

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1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

On-side was recovered on the same day by Chicago and they nearly got a second on-side recovery - minus the guys toe being out of bounds as he recovered it.

My bad, I didn't watch that game or see it anywhere.

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9 hours ago, coloradobillsfan said:

 

why not?  the game would have been OVER right at that point.  no hail marys, no chance of further injuries, nothing but 2 kneels and 00:00 on the clock.  Sal C's tweet indicates that MH realized this but couldn't resist when he saw all that daylight.  but what if Brady was the opposing qb, would you really have wanted to give him any chance?  I'm sure he's scored 10 points in 90 seconds in his career before, probably a lot of times.  when you get the chance to close the door, you slam it shut.  that's all I'm sayin

 

To all those worried about injuries ....  They happen.  It can be on the first snap or the last snap.  

 

If your game plan is not to get hurt...  plan on a 0-16 record. 

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

I prefer that ^ than taking 4 knees

 

Edited by SlimShady'sGhost

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17 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

question...Tasker kept saying "go down.go down". but he ran it back to go up 10. with 1:39 on the clock, no timeouts for Dolphins.would you have ran it back? or taken a knee?

You make the smart play and go down and give yourself up.  Had he been tackled and stripped of the ball, the discussions today might have a different tone to them.  He does not carry the ball normally, and generally D players don;t have great hands ... if they did they'd be on the offense :)

Tasker was right IMO.

 

People that took the Bills at -17 probably disagree with me ;)

Edited by CodeMonkey

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17 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The league changed the rules a year or two ago that made it much, much more difficult to recover an onsides, mostly by outlawing a team to load up on one side. And then not allowing the kicking team to get a running start. 

 

The funny thing about the Hyde play, which was awesome, was that is exactly how you want an onsides kick to be. Maybe a mite long but that kick is in the 90 percentile I would imagine considering how you would want it kicked. Hyde just made an extraordinary play. 

I agree. When I watched that again, I thought, wow, if that was another player besides Hyde (a great punt catcher!!), that might have turned out the be the first successful onside kick all season. It was a perfect kick. 

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