Question for the Liberals/Progressives on the Forum

[Chef Jim]

 

15 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You... Me.

 

The old saying:

 

"Don't trust anyone over 30."

 

In 30 more, you'll probably be dead:

 

 

 

 

I'm not exactly sure your age (early 40's?) but I know lots and lots LOTS of people there are younger than you and conservative and lots and lots and lots more that are older than you who were conservative before they were your age.  So you're talking out your ass again.   Probably because you don't know what makes a person conservative.  

Edited October 21, 2019 by Chef Jim

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

 

I'm not exactly sure your age (early 40's?) but I know lots and lots LOTS of people there are younger than you and conservative and lots and lots and lots more that are older than you who were conservative before they were your age.  So you're talking out your ass again.   Probably because you don't know what makes a person conservative.  

51 going on 52... So I am old fart like you. 

[Tiberius]

On 10/20/2019 at 10:33 AM, westside2 said:

I've voted Democrat my whole life, except for this past election. I couldn't vote for Hillary after doing a bunch of research on her and her past. I'm happy so far with the job he's doing despite the witch hunt. 

This is definitely not the democratic party that I supported all my life. I don't think I'll vote for a Democrat again as long as the current "leaders" of the party are still in charge.

Did you vote for Al Gore? John Kerry? 

[row_33]

most younger kids have chosen not to let their marriage become an immoral sewer ending in a horrible divorce

 

like their parents wallowed in

 

[Foxx]

On 10/19/2019 at 7:04 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

@Foxx... great post. The one that was really long that I don't want to quote.

 

There are things in there I think I might come back to, but overall I appreciate the spirit of the post and thread as a whole. It's generally been civil.

 

One question: you like Trump because he is "exposing the corruption of the elite class that thinks they are above us"... you seriously don't believe that Trump is part of that????

the elite class that thinks they are above us? if that is your question, i'm sure he thinks he is above most Americans but in a different way. Trump is a businessman and has an outlook that comes from being a very successful self made man. he didn't earn his wealth off the backs of a constituency of American voters. 

 

let me ask you... had Hillary won, do you believe we would be seeing the exposure of the corruption of the Dems that we are now? what about the evidence that is now slowly coming out about the illegal surveillance that was going on prior to the actual election. why do you think Hillary said that if she lost, they were all going to hang.

 

do you think Epstein, the pedophilia and all the human trafficking that is being exposed and prosecuted would have happened under the Hillmeister? what about illegal immigration (i'm sure it wouldn't have been as pronounced had Hill won because the Dem sponsored groups wouldn't have had to create a crisis)? do you think we would be at war with anyone other than who we were at war with in 2016 if the Hillster won?

 

and not to be one sided here, the Republicans are just as corrupt in my book. i think we are seeing a different attack on that front though, with many of these guys being forced to retire. it is my hope that when he gets elected, he will go after those Repubs who are equally corrupt because they are no different than the corrupt Dems.

 

clean the entire cesspool.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

the elite class that thinks they are above us? if that is your question, i'm sure he thinks he is above most Americans but in a different way. Trump is a businessman and has an outlook that comes from being a very successful self made man. he didn't earn his wealth off the backs of a constituency of American voters. 

 

 

I'm sorry I just can't even get past this part to read the rest of your post without you actually addressing it:

 

Trump is a self-made man?

 

The guy admitted himself that he got his start thanks to a $1 million loan from his father nearly half a century ago.

 

That's the number Trump, a consistent liar, has repeated himself he was given to start his business empire.

 

There's a high end report that he was actually given over $60 million at the time.

 

Self-made man?

 

C'mon man...

 

And once you dispense with that premise and realize that Trump is just ultimately "Old Money," how the hell do you NOT see that he's ABSOLUTELY part of that elite class that thinks he's above us?

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm sorry I just can't even get past this part to read the rest of your post without you actually addressing it:

 

Trump is a self-made man?

 

The guy admitted himself that he got his start thanks to a $1 million loan from his father nearly half a century ago.

 

That's the number Trump, a consistent liar, has repeated himself he was given to start his business empire.

 

There's a high end report that he was actually given over $60 million at the time.

 

Self-made man?

 

C'mon man...

 

And once you dispense with that premise and realize that Trump is just ultimately "Old Money," how the hell do you NOT see that he's ABSOLUTELY part of that elite class that thinks he's above us?

You know very little about the world of high end real estate development if you think those figures are big money! I’m guessing  you think you’re a ‘player’ when you’re sitting at the penny slot machines.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

You know very little about the world of high end real estate development if you think those figures are big money! I’m guessing  you think you’re a ‘player’ when you’re sitting at the penny slot machines.

 

I'm sorry.

 

Go look up how much $1 million in 1975 would be worth today after adjusting for inflation and then come back with a straight face pretending that's not a  LOT of money.

 

What an absolute head-scratching statement.

 

Do some of you seriously believe Donald Trump is the portrait of the "rags to riches" American Dream story? Sure seems like it. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm sorry.

 

Go look up how much $1 million in 1975 would be worth today after adjusting for inflation and then come back with a straight face pretending that's not a  LOT of money.

I’m sorry, go look at how much of that money you can lose with one bad deal. Nothing is guaranteed in the private sector. You have to get up every day and compete in the marketplace of process and products. It’s not as easy as you seem to think it is.

[Chef Jim]

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

51 going on 52... So I am old fart like you. 

At least I’m not senile like you yet. 
 

[3rdnlng]

12 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm sorry.

 

Go look up how much $1 million in 1975 would be worth today after adjusting for inflation and then come back with a straight face pretending that's not a  LOT of money.

It doesn't matter when it's Manhattan real estate. I've had decades in the commercial real estate field mainly in finding locations and securing them for national & regional retailers. I say this not that it gives me any expertise in Manhattan itself, but I have been privy to certain specifics of the market and know that a million dollars wasn't some extraordinary amount in 1975.

 

If you've ever been to Manhattan and shopped at the stores throughout the city you would have most likely noticed that all of the touristy type stores are like bowling alleys with very little street frontage but decent depth. They might be 1500 or 2000 s/f but at $150.00 s/f that's upwards of $300,000 a year in rent not considering any of the addons. This was 10-15 years ago so it could be much higher now. Development in Manhattan is extremely expensive so a million dollars isn't/wasn't jackshit, then or now.

29 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

At least I’m not senile like you yet. 
 

I think that was his IQ too.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm sorry I just can't even get past this part to read the rest of your post without you actually addressing it:

 

Trump is a self-made man?

 

The guy admitted himself that he got his start thanks to a $1 million loan from his father nearly half a century ago.

 

That's the number Trump, a consistent liar, has repeated himself he was given to start his business empire.

 

There's a high end report that he was actually given over $60 million at the time.

 

Self-made man?

 

C'mon man...

 

And once you dispense with that premise and realize that Trump is just ultimately "Old Money," how the hell do you NOT see that he's ABSOLUTELY part of that elite class that thinks he's above us?

What’s always been sort of fascinating about DJT to me is that with as brash as he is, with as many people as he dealt with, you would think former employees would be lined up for miles willing to talk about what a horrible human being he is having cheated/lied/screwed them while they worked for him.  The fact is that absent a few outliers who certainly might just be part of a money grab, a surreptitious recording of some vulgar language, that’s never really been an issue for him.  
 

As for being a self-made man, well, considering the totality of his life, I’m hard-pressed to not consider him self-made. He’s worth some variation of billions with a b, has survived and thrived in the commercial real estate market in NYC and beyond, had a successful television show and, oh yeah, defeated some of the most powerful people/political cabals on the planet to become THE most powerful person on the planet through sheer force of will.  A quick google search indicates that there have been an estimated 545,000,000 people living during the period of time commencing in 1776, and 44 men have served as President (as of today, no women have been elected but one was really, really popular). 
 

Amazing. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[keepthefaith]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm sorry I just can't even get past this part to read the rest of your post without you actually addressing it:

 

Trump is a self-made man?

 

The guy admitted himself that he got his start thanks to a $1 million loan from his father nearly half a century ago.

 

That's the number Trump, a consistent liar, has repeated himself he was given to start his business empire.

 

There's a high end report that he was actually given over $60 million at the time.

 

Self-made man?

 

C'mon man...

 

And once you dispense with that premise and realize that Trump is just ultimately "Old Money," how the hell do you NOT see that he's ABSOLUTELY part of that elite class that thinks he's above us?

 

It may be fact that Trump started with $1 million.  It may also be fact that he was provided loans through has father in greater amounts and it may also be fact that he was given other funds at his Father's death.  Even if $60 Million in total, he's turned that into a lot of money in a very risky business.  Big real estate is risky and potentially very rewarding but also widely affected by swings in the economy.  It's also a complex business.  By any reasonable measure Trump has been successful in his business endeavors.  If it were so easy more would do it.  Few of our elected officials have even small business accomplishments worthy of praise. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by keepthefaith

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m sorry, go look at how much of that money you can lose with one bad deal. Nothing is guaranteed in the private sector. You have to get up every day and compete in the marketplace of process and products. It’s not as easy as you seem to think it is.

 

#1: Give me a friggin break. Maybe you know what it's like to have gotten a $1 million loan ($60+ million by today's standards), and if you do, congratulations! You got something the vaaAAaast majority of Americans have never and will never get.

 

#2: The premise of this argument is that Donald Trump somehow came up from nothing. He did not. Without Daddy's minimum $1 million ($60+ million by today's standards), Donald Trump just... well... actually he's STILL rich because he's an heir, afterall.

 

#3: I guess you can make the argument that Trump has "worked hard" to earn his money--though 6 bankruptcies, continued loaned money from his father and banks, and PLENTY of "shady" practices might disagree--but do you think that guy got his hands dirty a day in his life?

 

Maybe you're confusing "worked hard" with a combination of birthright, arrogance, and not giving 2 $#!+$ about others.

[3rdnlng]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

#1: Give me a friggin break. Maybe you know what it's like to have gotten a $1 million loan ($60+ million by today's standards), and if you do, congratulations! You got something the vaaAAaast majority of Americans have never and will never get.

 

#2: The premise of this argument is that Donald Trump somehow came up from nothing. He did not. Without Daddy's minimum $1 million ($60+ million by today's standards), Donald Trump just... well... actually he's STILL rich because he's an heir, afterall.

 

#3: I guess you can make the argument that Trump has "worked hard" to earn his money--though 6 bankruptcies, continued loaned money from his father and banks, and PLENTY of "shady" practices might disagree--but do you think that guy got his hands dirty a day in his life?

 

Maybe you're confusing "worked hard" with a combination of birthright, arrogance, and not giving 2 $#!+$ about others.

1 million dollars in 1975 would be worth about $4.84 million in 2019. Where did you get the figure from (60 million) that you are quoting?

 

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1000000&year=1975

 

You are talking about things that you have no knowledge of at all. Borrowing money and using leverage is partially how fortunes are made. Other favorable attributes such as hard work and good ideas along with good timing are necessary too. While bankruptcy has bad connotations with the general public, there's much more to it than you obviously know. You are in way over your head and would be better served learning rather than trying to teach others what you don't know. Your TDS is strong but your ignorance is giving it a run for its money. I shudder to think that you actually teach our children.

[snafu]

8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

#1: Give me a friggin break. Maybe you know what it's like to have gotten a $1 million loan ($60+ million by today's standards), and if you do, congratulations! You got something the vaaAAaast majority of Americans have never and will never get.

 

#2: The premise of this argument is that Donald Trump somehow came up from nothing. He did not. Without Daddy's minimum $1 million ($60+ million by today's standards), Donald Trump just... well... actually he's STILL rich because he's an heir, afterall.

 

#3: I guess you can make the argument that Trump has "worked hard" to earn his money--though 6 bankruptcies, continued loaned money from his father and banks, and PLENTY of "shady" practices might disagree--but do you think that guy got his hands dirty a day in his life?

 

Maybe you're confusing "worked hard" with a combination of birthright, arrogance, and not giving 2 $#!+$ about others.

 

$1,000,000 in 1976 isn’t $60,000,000 today. Not close.

There are surely a multitude of people who get a loan or an inheritance and squander it, no?  And there are surely a multitude of people who get a loan or an inheritance and buy perhaps one or two buildings with it and never do more to grow their holdings.

 

I’ll give you arrogant and self-centered. I even understand you “birthright” point.  But I think what trump did with a kickstart is a heluva lot more than sitting in a room and eating bon bons.  You going to rip on Roosevelt and Kennedy for coming from money, too? 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure where this discussion is going. You can be jealous of people with money but that’s about YOU, not about them. Trump is actually very consistent in his approach to business and government. He’s fully aware he didn’t start with nothing but his goal in business is the same as his approach to government and it stems from his life experience. He didn’t sit on his good fortune. He used it to increase his position. He didn’t say “I guess this is the new normal.” or “I didn’t build that.” or “I’ll lead from behind” or run around NYC on an apology tour after inheriting his position. No, he went straight to work! He built upon what he’d received and turned it into more. More finances. More employees with pay checks. More opportunity for everyone! This all sounds EXACTLY like how he’s trying to run the country. Where’s the problem?

[Koko78]

3 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

You are talking about things that you have no knowledge of at all.

 

You have actually read his posts before, right?

[Keukasmallies]

17 hours ago, row_33 said:

most younger kids have chosen not to let their marriage become an immoral sewer ending in a horrible divorce

 

like their parents wallowed in

 

 

Whoa dude, that's a  pretty black indictment of the 'rents.  On the other hand, I do see the "not in our lifetime" aspect of free love, live together, and just hang out.

[3rdnlng]

45 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

You have actually read his posts before, right?

Yes, that's why I felt very confident in my statement. You ever play Texas Holdem? There's more than one way to play the game.

1 minute ago, Keukasmallies said:

 

Whoa dude, that's a  pretty black indictment of the 'rents.  On the other hand, I do see the "not in our lifetime" aspect of free love, live together, and just hang out.

It's done wonders for certain parts of our population.