Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I don’t conflate the two actually. My apologies. A number of people reading your posts for standard English usage appear to derive the impression that you conflate the two. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Its official!!! JA>Cam Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: My apologies. A number of people reading your posts for standard English usage appear to derive the impression that you conflate the two. Are these the same people that consider QB rating a controversial stat or the ones that hate on PFF in one thread but accept their conclusion in another when it’s what they want to hear? Edited October 18, 2019 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) Based on this list, we’re trading Allen for Marcus Mariota straight up. Major coup for Beane. Allen hasn’t been perfect, but I must be missing something that dictates he’s bottom 5 in the league while Baker Mayfield is top 15... Edited October 18, 2019 by whatdrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, WideNine said: Not convinced, but to each their own. Their opinion is just that, once you get down to the subjective interpretations of things like "accurate pass". It is hard enough to get 3 people watching the same replay in slow motion to agree on what they are seeing. That is where subjective bias comes into play and we know where they and some others stand in regards to Allen. It is not like their opinion really matters, it is our coaches and who they feel gives this team the best chance to win. Sure, maybe two or three percent of plays will be right on the line, as far as accurate. Hard to call. The vast majority, though, could be agreed on by most reasonable people. And nearly every NFL team buys PFF's data. They wouldn't do that if PFF wasn't damn good at what they do. Edited October 18, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, berg1029 said: According to PFF.. Devlin Hodges is better than Josh Allen? WHAT? I don't get really caught up in these rankings, but come on. The guy threw for like 100 yards in a full game... pretty much all of which was to running backs. He gets bonus points for gold embroidered duck calling championship waders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I actually think it’s a tool in the toolbox and I find their rankings interesting but shouldn’t taken too seriously. Going into last week they had a 1-4 steelers squad ranked 4 slots higher than our bills at 4-1..... that’s absolutely ABSURD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Joe Flacco looking every bit of his ranking 11 spots ahead of JA tonight. I honestly don’t mind these rankings. They’re certainly useful as a metric. I’m sure if Josh cuts down on the turnovers and connects on a deep pass every now and then, he will make a huge jump up this list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Scott7975 said: Josh Allen only has like a 42% completions 1 TD 2INTs versus the Blitz, going into the Pats game. I'm sure that has a lot to do with his low ranking. If he escapes the pressure and throws it away it hurts his passer rating. We know he has rolled to the right and thrown some of his worst ints. THAT really hurts his passer rating. If he'd just take a bunch of sacks like Flacco did tonight, his passer rating suffers not a bit. Edited October 18, 2019 by JESSEFEFFER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks in part to the Bills defense Josh has looked more effective than every QB they faced this year. Yet they are all ranked higher on the year. Maybe that's got our view skewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: PFF is good. Not perfect, of course, but they're very good, and they don't tailor the stats to what they want to find. Now, do the watchers find their perceptions are interfered with somewhat by their preconceptions. Yup. Same as every single human being in the history of history, but PFF still does a good job. What exactly are you basing this take on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I’d like to see Allen start making better plays vs the blitz. It’s not the be -all end -all, but it’s important and a good way to make teams think twice about blitzing. They will continue until you beat it, to be certain. The PFF rankings mean jack squat, good or bad. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: Are these the same people that consider QB rating a controversial stat or the ones that hate on PFF in one thread but accept their conclusion in another when it’s what they want to hear? Why did you describe yourself like your someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, whatdrought said: Based on this list, we’re trading Allen for Marcus Mariota straight up. Major coup for Beane. NO, based on this, we're trading straight up ... based only on how people have played the last few weeks. And nobody would make trades based only on that. PFF doesn't throw in very very obvious stuff like the fact that Allen has a major excuse for problems that Mariota doesn't have in that Allen has played - what? 17 games? Plus salary, when someone will get a 2nd contract ... there are thousands of other factors. Nobody would base trades on only this. PFF is only talking about effectiveness so far this season. Edited October 18, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said: What exactly are you basing this take on? Among other things, that nearly all NFL teams buy PFF data. The reason they do so is that they value it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheRockpile Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Among other things, that nearly all NFL teams buy PFF data. The reason they do so is that they value it. Why do you assume that the highly subjective crap they put out for public consumption bear any resemblance to the data products they sell to the NFL or college teams? If I am running a multi billion dollar company and am contracting out analytical analysis to another company I am sure as hell going to require a NDA that keeps the analysis/methods proprietary and define in detail what analysis I need done. The assumption that what they put out for public consumption is the same data products they sell to NFL or major college programs is extremely naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bangarang said: Are these the same people that consider QB rating a controversial stat or the ones that hate on PFF in one thread but accept their conclusion in another when it’s what they want to hear? I would not care if PFF had Allen at the top their QBR - just as meaningless as if they had him dragging the bottom. I just trust my eyes when it comes to whether Allen, a QB that I thought was a very raw but talented prospect needing about 2 years just to get up to speed with more polished draft prospects with some time sitting behind a veteran, is trending in the right direction after being thrown into the fire. That is all I am looking for and it works for me. Just for fun (because it is funny for us anachronistic antagonists of those in love with their arithmetic) just look at the Wikipedia comments about the long and skeptical journey of Total QBR and yes, I know I cherry-picked the funny comments. "Unlike the NFL passer rating, ESPN has not yet been forthcoming on the exact specific formulas and procedures to calculate QBR.[7] The proprietary, complex methodology spans some 10,000 lines of code.[8] In an interview with San Diego's XX Sports Radio, San Diego Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers seemed baffled by the ratings, which put him ninth overall in its metrics for the 2010 season, saying "I still don't get it. I think it's more complicated now" "Further criticism of QBR was brought about when, before some tinkering with the equation of QBR, Steelers quarterback Charlie Batch had the greatest individual game ever evaluated by QBR. Batch threw for 186 yards with two interceptions in the game" "Further controversy erupted when the Total QBR system gave the Denver Broncos' Tim Tebow a higher rating than the Green Bay Packers' Aaron Rodgers in their respective Week 5 contests in 2011. Noting that Rodgers completed 26 of 39 passes for 396 yards and two touchdowns in a win over the Atlanta Falcons, while Tebow completed four of 10 passes for 79 yards and a touchdown, and six rushes for 38 yards and a touchdown, in a loss to the San Diego Chargers." "In a more recent example, a game played on September 24, 2017, Alex Smith of Kansas City Chiefs received an inexplicable QBR of 7.8, half as much as the equally-bad QBR of 16.1 for his counterpart Philip Rivers of the Los Angeles Chargers, even though Smith had a higher completion rate (16/21 vs. 20/40), a better average per completion (7.8 yds vs. 5.9), a far superior TD/int ratio (2-0 vs. 0-3), and won the game handily 24-10." Edited October 18, 2019 by WideNine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Sure, maybe two or three percent of plays will be right on the line, as far as accurate. Hard to call. The vast majority, though, could be agreed on by most reasonable people. And nearly every NFL team buys PFF's data. They wouldn't do that if PFF wasn't damn good at what they do. Apparently Beane was not buying their evaluation of QB's prior to the 2018 draft as PFFs Analysis Team ranking of the 2018 QB draft class went like this: 1. Baker Mayfield 2. Will Grier 3. Mason Rudolph 4. Lamar Jackson 5. Josh Rosen 6. Mike White 7. Jake Browning 8. Luke Falk 9. Auston Allen 10. Jerrett Stidham 11. Daniel Jones 12. Sam Darnold 13. Josh Allen Not that I am saying folks may have a bias, but wouldn't you just look plain silly if the guy you have ranked dead last became good? Not that many NFL teams seemed to be listening to their player evaluations prior to the draft.Though they did get Mayfield right, but heck half our board predicted that and don't claim to be experts with all the secret sauce formulas to back up the educated guesswork needed to predict what QB the Browns would take. Plenty of other metrics have merit and may be leveraged - situational statistics that help teams crunch probabilities for down and distance what a team is most likely to do offensively or defensively. It is the application of those collected metrics that help teams put a thumb on the probability scale and come up with game plans. That is why most teams have an analytics guy and it may be easier to buy the raw data collected by a group like PFF than to create your own. They have data, and they have opinions. I will go out on a limb and say that the Bills and other NFL teams are most likely interested in the data they collect and not so much their opinions, interpretations, and player evaluations. Edited October 18, 2019 by WideNine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 hours ago, BillsFanForReal said: People actually subscribe and pay for this type of garbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 12 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: And Winston, Mariota and Mayfield are? Just to be clear, you realize that PFF says those three are bad as well, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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