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syhuang

Something fishy in Texans-Chiefs game on a pass interferce call

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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/14/something-fishy-happened-in-that-texans-chiefs-call/

 

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It occurred with the Chiefs leading 17-9 in the second quarter, and driving for more with a first down on the Houson 32. Quarterback Patrick Mahomes fired a deep ball to the end zone, and it was intercepted by Texans defensive back Tashaun Gipson.

 

Referee Shawn Hochuli initially informed the fans in the stadium and the TV audience that Texans defensive back Lonnie Johnson Jr. had committed defensive pass interference on Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce, with the video showing Johnson grabbing Kelce and driving him into the ground. Then, as the teams were lined up for the next play at the spot of the infraction (the Houston 23), Hochuli and two other officials huddled. During the conversation, one of the other officials clearly can be seen pressing his finger against his ear, it what most likely was an attempt to better hear whatever someone was saying to him.

 

PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called.

 

After the consultation, Hochuli announced “the contact that was potentially a hold was while the ball was in the air; it is not pass interference, because it was not on the receiver that caught the ball.” While a little clunky on the back end, the point was that the officials concluded, apparently with input from either the replay official or 345 Park Avenue, that the blatant hold on Kelce happened while the ball was in the air, and that Kelce wasn’t the intended receiver — making the ball uncatchable as to him and thus resulting in no interference.

But the contact on Kelce seems to have clearly commenced and continued before Mahomes threw the ball. Thus, if there was going to be any type of consultation (even if technically unauthorized by the procedures for helping the officials on the field), someone should have told the officials that Johnson committed defensive holding on Kelce, with the interception nullified and possession given to the Chiefs, first and 10 from the Houston 27.

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Go to 1:12 to see one of the officials seems to listen to something. Note that the play wasn't under review.

 

Conspiracy? 😎

 

Edited by syhuang
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So what's the fishy part? They shouldn't have been talking to the officials at that point in time? Is there a rule against that?

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Just now, MJS said:

So what's the fishy part? They shouldn't have been talking to the officials at that point in time? Is there a rule against that?

 

From the article:

 

PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called.

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I would have expected this to happen during a Patriots* game.

 

😋

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5 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

From the article:

 

PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called.

But why does it mean that? Is that what the rule is? The league can only talk to the officials when there is an official review?

 

I'm just trying to understand the actual rules behind this.

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Does it count if the call from the office is “You idiots ¥}%< up one more call, and your crew will be selling beer in Section 307!!”?

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14 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

From the article:

 

PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called.

Refs are allowed to huddle up tho and change calls

 

They wear an O20 official to official radios

Edited by Buffalo716
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Is it out of the realm of possibility that he was simply communicating with an official on another part the field? There's 7 of them.

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1 minute ago, MJS said:

But why does it mean that? Is that what the rule is? The league can only talk to the officials when there is an official review?

 

I'm just trying to understand the actual rules behind this.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just needed clarification on how the rules line up with what they saw but who knows.

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1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they just needed clarification on how the rules line up with what they saw but who knows.

Yeah, I would expect the officials to be able to contact the league any time they need to regardless of the situation and vice versa, but knowing the league, there's probably some rules around when you can and can't.

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Where in the rulebook does it say referees can't communicate w/replay officials via headset on non-replay review calls?

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Screw it. The Chiefs were due for a hosing by the Refs. 

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4 minutes ago, Fortunesmith said:

Is it out of the realm of possibility that he was simply communicating with an official on another part the field? There's 7 of them.

Ding ding ding

 

That's exactly what was going on..  NFL officials use O20 official to official radios

 

They are linked up to all officials so all 7 don't have to huddle

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2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Where in the rulebook does it say referees can't communicate w/replay officials via headset on non-replay review calls?

That's my exact question. There's only something fishy if the rules state they can't.

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19 minutes ago, syhuang said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/14/something-fishy-happened-in-that-texans-chiefs-call/

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It occurred with the Chiefs leading 17-9 in the second quarter, and driving for more with a first down on the Houson 32. Quarterback Patrick Mahomes fired a deep ball to the end zone, and it was intercepted by Texans defensive back Tashaun Gipson.

 

Referee Shawn Hochuli initially informed the fans in the stadium and the TV audience that Texans defensive back Lonnie Johnson Jr. had committed defensive pass interference on Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce, with the video showing Johnson grabbing Kelce and driving him into the ground. Then, as the teams were lined up for the next play at the spot of the infraction (the Houston 23), Hochuli and two other officials huddled. During the conversation, one of the other officials clearly can be seen pressing his finger against his ear, it what most likely was an attempt to better hear whatever someone was saying to him.

 

PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called.

 

After the consultation, Hochuli announced “the contact that was potentially a hold was while the ball was in the air; it is not pass interference, because it was not on the receiver that caught the ball.” While a little clunky on the back end, the point was that the officials concluded, apparently with input from either the replay official or 345 Park Avenue, that the blatant hold on Kelce happened while the ball was in the air, and that Kelce wasn’t the intended receiver — making the ball uncatchable as to him and thus resulting in no interference.

But the contact on Kelce seems to have clearly commenced and continued before Mahomes threw the ball. Thus, if there was going to be any type of consultation (even if technically unauthorized by the procedures for helping the officials on the field), someone should have told the officials that Johnson committed defensive holding on Kelce, with the interception nullified and possession given to the Chiefs, first and 10 from the Houston 27.

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I don't know man.  Looked to me like Kelsey was the one holding and he fell down trying to push the defender away.   Guess it depends on your point of view.

 

 

 

Go to 1:12 to see one of the officials seems to listen to something. Note that the play wasn't under review.

 

Conspiracy? 😎

 

 

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Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Ding ding ding

 

That's exactly what was going on..  NFL officials use O20 official to official radios

 

They are linked up to all officials so all 7 don't have to huddle

Ah yes. And they still end up huddling up often, wasting time when they could be communicating via headsets.

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I think the issue is, even if it was not pass interference it was defensive holding and thereby defensive holding. It’s absolutely nuts to me that they gave that ball to the Texans. That turned the game.

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NFL -  

 

Uh Sorry about that.....  Better luck next time 

4 minutes ago, Nanker said:

Screw it. The Chiefs were due for a hosing by the Refs. 

now it is the Pats*** turn 

 

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1 minute ago, MJS said:

Ah yes. And they still end up huddling up often, wasting time when they could be communicating via headsets.

Yep because zebras  are pack animals

 

And need to be Led in a herd

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4 minutes ago, MJS said:

That's my exact question. There's only something fishy if the rules state they can't.

 

I didn't locate the exact rules in NFL rulebook but found this article relating to it when quickly googling it. Not sure if anything changes afterward.

 

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https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/224822/mike-pereira-wants-to-reveal-nfls-undercover-officiating-program

 

In a conversation this week about his book, "After Further Review," Pereira reiterated and amplified a theory that he first advanced last year -- a premise that makes perfect sense but would undermine the transparency of NFL game administration. According to Pereira, referees regularly receive assistance and advice from replay officials on their wireless headsets, communication that helps them make accurate calls but would be in violation of rules the league itself has published and publicized.

 

"They're never going to come out and admit it because it's not allowed in the rules," he said. "I get that. And I'm not against the notion of trying to get as many calls right as you can, but my only concern is if the rulebook doesn't allow you to do it -- to me, there is a conflict. I get the side of trying to avoid controversy, but I'd rather the rulebook allow it first."

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Edited by syhuang
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2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Ah yes. And they still end up huddling up often, wasting time when they could be communicating via headsets.

Well i mean it is easier to go over something and come to a consensus when you can see who's talking.

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I don't know if the NFL called in that reversal, although the ref is obviously listening to someone on his headset and I definitely don't put it past the NFL to skew games  a bit here and there (I think it happens a lot),

 

But, how can that not be a penalty. He basically tackled Kelce off the line of scrimmage. Tough to make that changed call seem believable (within the rules of the game).. 

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1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Well i mean it is easier to go over something and come to a consensus when you can see who's talking.

Why?

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2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Because it's how human beings are designed.

Look at us, communicating without even looking! Or even speaking!

 

And parents and kids texting each other when they are all in the same house.

 

Any company that uses radios frequently to communicate implements radio etiquette rules to ensure clear and effective communication.

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