Jump to content

Josh Allen haters: a 10 year history lesson on 1st round QBʻs


rayray808

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We scored 14 points. 

 

We scored 7 more than they did

 

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I generally agree. However, it would be great to see a monster game once against a good team from Allen.  

This feels a little Mark sanchez like.  And that’s fine because I love a playoff run but it makes me nervous long term. 

 

Why do you feel Allen is "Mark Sanchez like"?  I don't see the resemblance at all.

But in order to discuss, I need to understand what you see as the relevant factors of resemblence.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We scored 14 points. 

Yup and that’s kinda my point.  I forgot the undrafted guy last year from SF who would have monster games last year.  Why can’t the highest drafted guy in Bills history?

 

and I get it. We’re winning.  I just want to see a complete game from our potential franchise qb.

Why is it so hard to understand that it is not just Josh Allen here.....it is

 

The fact that our defense holds everyone down

10 new starters on offense

And then it is of course because of turnovers

 

We also still have pass catchers DROPPING TOUCHDOWN passes

 

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We scored 7 more than they did

 

 

Why do you feel Allen is "Mark Sanchez like"?  I don't see the resemblance at all.

But in order to discuss, I need to understand what you see as the relevant factors of resemblence.

High pick qb, playing on a team with a great defense, and winning games.  Jets fans would just say he wins but ignore the overwhelming evidence that he was along for the ride.  He would have “comebacks” but it would beecause he was terrible all game and the defense kept it close. 

 

Long way way to go to see that for Allen and I think he is more physically gifted. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Why is it so hard to understand that it is not just Josh Allen here.....it is

 

The fact that our defense holds everyone down

10 new starters on offense

And then it is of course because of turnovers

 

We also still have pass catchers DROPPING TOUCHDOWN passes

 

 

And Josh Allen playing inconsistently. We should all hope this is not his ceiling. This defense will not sustain this level of play every game and for years to come. In many ways this team is winning despite Allen not because Allen. They would likely have the same outcomes and maybe actually have won the NE game if we had Tyrod Taylor level play thus far. That was not good enough and either should this version of Josh Allen. We have him because the hope is he continue to develop. I can guarantee you the coaches are not pleased and want more from him. No question. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Why is it so hard to understand that it is not just Josh Allen here.....it is

 

The fact that our defense holds everyone down

10 new starters on offense

And then it is of course because of turnovers

 

We also still have pass catchers DROPPING TOUCHDOWN passes

 

 

I mean this honestly. When will allowed to want more from Allen?  Am I bad fan because I want our highest drafted qb to have more tds than ints?

  • Awesome! (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ngbills said:

And Josh Allen playing inconsistently. We should all hope this is not his ceiling. This defense will not sustain this level of play every game and for years to come. In many ways this team is winning despite Allen not because Allen. They would likely have the same outcomes and maybe actually have won the NE game if we had Tyrod Taylor level play thus far. That was not good enough and either should this version of Josh Allen. We have him because the hope is he continue to develop. I can guarantee you the coaches are not pleased and want more from him. No question. 

OMFG

 

All you can ask for is playing well enough to win while showing improvement year to year....its called developing a QB (which is happening)

 

if it makes you feel better to cry over other teams toys...have at it

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean this honestly. When will allowed to want more from Allen?  Am I bad fan because I want our highest drafted qb to have more tds than ints?

No you are not a bad fan for wanting it

 

As long as you recognize that the arrow is pointing up and that it is journey to develop a QB like this

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

QBs mature at different progressions......

 

And if you cannot see the improvements in his game even from year 1 I dont know what to tell you....its there and verifiable both statistically and visably

And this is what I always worried about with Allen. We are just going to keep hearing about raw he is and how he needs a little more time. 

 

Ive grown to really like how he carries himself and he has shown some progression in the short game.  But he is so inconsistent and I just hope that’s not going to be his whole career. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This does support the argument that those who have posted if Allen's a bust McD and Beane should be fired for wasting a high pick.  The rate of success with QB's where ever they are drafted is very low.  If it turns out Oliver or Edmunds, or Tre are busts then yes, but faulting a GM for picking a bad QB is silly and just setting the team back years again to start over.  There was not a no brainer in the 2017 draft class either.  Both Mayfield and Darnold the two drafted highest did also have question marks about them too.  

 

I do wonder what has happend to Goff though?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

OMFG

 

All you can ask for is playing well enough to win while showing improvement year to year....its called developing a QB (which is happening)

 

if it makes you feel better to cry over other teams toys...have at it

Play well enough to win? Then why not just keep Tyrod or find the most mediocre Qb that will protect the ball?

 

I am not saying we ditch Allen. I just disagree with all the attempts to show he is actually playing great, he is actually better than xyz, this is the plan with him, its WR fault, fill in your excuse here.

 

Yes, it is going to be a development process. Nothing wrong with being honest when the guy struggles. I dont think I have ever "cried over other team toys". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

This does support the argument that those who have posted if Allen's a bust McD and Beane should be fired for wasting a high pick.  The rate of success with QB's where ever they are drafted is very low.  If it turns out Oliver or Edmunds, or Tre are busts then yes, but faulting a GM for picking a bad QB is silly and just setting the team back years again to start over.  There was not a no brainer in the 2017 draft class either.  Both Mayfield and Darnold the two drafted highest did also have question marks about them too.  

 

I do wonder what has happend to Goff though?

What happened with Goff is the common misconception about what wins football.  Goff lost some good O linemen and now he is getting more pressure.  

 

I know I’m old fashioned but football starts up front.  Win the battles up front, win the games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

What happened with Goff is the common misconception about what wins football.  Goff lost some good O linemen and now he is getting more pressure.  

 

I know I’m old fashioned but football starts up front.  Win the battles up front, win the games.

 

don't follow other teams that closely, was it due to lack of $$ to pay them or they made some bad cuts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

High pick qb, playing on a team with a great defense, and winning games.  Jets fans would just say he wins but ignore the overwhelming evidence that he was along for the ride.  He would have “comebacks” but it would beecause he was terrible all game and the defense kept it close.

 

OK.    So I'll give you 3 differences:

1) In 4 years playing on the Jets including with solid veteran WRs, a strong run game, and a good OL, Sanchez best completion % was 56%.  His 4 year average was 55%.

     So far this year, Allen has improved from 53% to 63%.  If Allen keeps it up, that's a very significant improvement his 2nd year.

2) Sanchez lacked the athleticism and rushing ability that Allen possesses - he actually was seen as athletic in college, perhaps a knee injury in college put paid to it.

3) Josh Allen seems to be taking a step in his progressions his 2nd year in the pros.  Mark Sanchez was rumored to be struggling with Schottenheimer's playbook in his 3rd season.  Now this may reflect relative experience: Allen played for 3 years in college, where Sanchez chose to declare for the draft after 1 season.  Sanchez did start looking like a real QB in his 5th season, playing for Shurmer in Philly, so there's that. 

 

I don't think the Bills had a great defense last year.  I'd call 18th on points mediocre.  We got blown out in what, 5 games?

 

Has Allen arrived, No.  He has to progress as a QB to show that he's The Man, in particular with "taking what the D is giving him" and protecting the football. 

But is it reasonable to compare him to Sanchez? Also, No.

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And this is what I always worried about with Allen. We are just going to keep hearing about raw he is and how he needs a little more time. 

 

Ive grown to really like how he carries himself and he has shown some progression in the short game.  But he is so inconsistent and I just hope that’s not going to be his whole career. 

Rushing yards are way down because he is not just taking off out of the pocket at the first sight of trouble and

 

22 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Play well enough to win? Then why not just keep Tyrod or find the most mediocre Qb that will protect the ball?

 

I am not saying we ditch Allen. I just disagree with all the attempts to show he is actually playing great, he is actually better than xyz, this is the plan with him, its WR fault, fill in your excuse here.

 

Yes, it is going to be a development process. Nothing wrong with being honest when the guy struggles. I dont think I have ever "cried over other team toys". 

Josh Allen is a better QB then Tyrod (who I supported)...is playing better......and who has MUCH more upside.

 

Find a way to keep Tyrod in the pocket and we were toast.....Josh can actually throw the ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

No sorry, but I encourage you to try again. Every borderline insane opinion is not a valid “bills’ fan” let’s go buffalo-approved one just because they try to paint an Allen compliment in through the back door.

Truly his reckoning is upon him. 

It does appear your opinion is something you have grown to believe is fact, and that seems to work for you, and I am happy for you, But still, I digress, Go Bills!!! ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I pulled the first 5 years passing statistics of the 30 Quarterbacks drafted since 2010 and put them in a spreadsheet for a statistical look of all the QBs taken there.

So I am going to post some stats that I thought were important but I want to open it up to everyone, lemme know what stats you want, or if you want the spreadsheet I am more than willing to share it.

YEAR 1

I decided to make 6 starts or more their rookie season, it's just under half but enough to get a bit of a look at a QB. If you'd like me to alter the data another way I can... the guys who were weeded out because of insufficient starts: Daniel Jones (4), Tim Tebow (3), Paxton Lynch (2), Johnny Manziel (2), Patrick Mahomes (1), Dwayne Haskins (0), Jake Locker (0)

What I am going to post is the top 10 at each of the following Category with Allen inserted in (If he's not in the top 10), and the Average of all QBs.

Number of Games Started:
 

Ranking Name GS
1 Andrew Luck 16
2 Carson Wentz 16
3 Sam Bradford 16
4 Ryan Tannehill 16
5 Cam Newton 16
6 Jameis Winston 16
7 Robert Griffin III 15
8 Brandon Weeden 15
9 Blaine Gabbert 14
10 Baker Mayfield 13
17 Josh Allen 11
  GROUP AVERAGE 14.9


Win Percentage:
 

Ranking Name GS Wins Losses Win%
1 Lamar Jackson 7 6 1 86%
2 Andrew Luck 16 11 5 69%
3 Robert Griffin III 15 9 6 60%
4 Teddy Bridgewater 12 6 6 50%
5 Deshaun Watson 6 3 3 50%
6 Baker Mayfield 13 6 7 46%
7 Josh Allen 11 5 6 45%
8 Carson Wentz 16 7 9 44%
9 Sam Bradford 16 7 9 44%
10 Ryan Tannehill 16 7 9 44%
  GROUP AVERAGE 12.4 4.9 7.4 39.5%


Completion Percentage: (This one I left the whole list because I was surprised Luck was as low as he was)
 

Ranking Name Cmp%
1 Robert Griffin III 65.6
2 Teddy Bridgewater 64.4
3 Kyler Murray 64.3
4 Baker Mayfield 63.8
5 Carson Wentz 62.4
6 Marcus Mariota 62.2
7 Deshaun Watson 61.8
8 Sam Bradford 60
9 Cam Newton 60
10 Mitchell Trubisky 59.4
11 Blake Bortles 58.9
12 EJ Manuel 58.8
13 Ryan Tannehill 58.3
14 Jameis Winston 58.3
15 Lamar Jackson 58.2
16 Sam Darnold 57.7
17 Brandon Weeden 57.4
18 Josh Rosen 55.2
19 Jared Goff 54.6
20 Christian Ponder 54.3
21 Andrew Luck 54.1
22 Josh Allen 52.8
23 Blaine Gabbert 50.8
  GROUP AVERAGE 59%


Yards:
 

1 Andrew Luck 4374
2 Cam Newton 4051
3 Jameis Winston 4042
4 Carson Wentz 3782
5 Baker Mayfield 3725
6 Sam Bradford 3512
7 Brandon Weeden 3385
8 Ryan Tannehill 3294
9 Robert Griffin III 3200
10 Teddy Bridgewater 2919
11 Blake Bortles 2908
12 Sam Darnold 2865
13 Marcus Mariota 2818
14 Josh Rosen 2278
15 Blaine Gabbert 2214
16 Mitchell Trubisky 2193
17 Josh Allen 2074
18 EJ Manuel 1972
19 Christian Ponder 1853
20 Deshaun Watson 1699
21 Kyler Murray 1664
22 Lamar Jackson 1201
23 Jared Goff 1089
  Group Average 2744



Touch Downs:
 

Ranking Name TD
1 Baker Mayfield 27
2 Andrew Luck 23
3 Jameis Winston 22
4 Cam Newton 21
5 Robert Griffin III 20
6 Marcus Mariota 19
7 Deshaun Watson 19
8 Sam Bradford 18
9 Sam Darnold 17
10 Carson Wentz 16
11 Teddy Bridgewater 14
12 Brandon Weeden 14
13 Christian Ponder 13
14 Ryan Tannehill 12
15 Blaine Gabbert 12
16 Blake Bortles 11
17 EJ Manuel 11
18 Josh Rosen 11
19 Josh Allen 10
20 Kyler Murray 7
21 Mitchell Trubisky 7
22 Lamar Jackson 6
23 Jared Goff 5
  GROUP AVERAGE 14.5


Interceptions:
 

Ranking Name Int
1 Andrew Luck 18
2 Cam Newton 17
3 Brandon Weeden 17
4 Blake Bortles 17
5 Jameis Winston 15
6 Sam Bradford 15
7 Sam Darnold 15
8 Carson Wentz 14
9 Baker Mayfield 14
10 Josh Rosen 14
11 Ryan Tannehill 13
12 Christian Ponder 13
13 Teddy Bridgewater 12
14 Josh Allen 12
15 Blaine Gabbert 11
16 Marcus Mariota 10
17 EJ Manuel 9
18 Deshaun Watson 8
19 Mitchell Trubisky 7
20 Jared Goff 7
21 Robert Griffin III 5
22 Kyler Murray 4
23 Lamar Jackson 3
  Group Average 11.7

I will try and get year 2 done tonight, but definitely tomorrow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...