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Jonathan Jones NOT fined for his hit on Allen


Herc11
Message added by Hapless Bills Fan

Listen up!

Keep it moderately clean, folks.  When I edit I'm way less creative than y'all are capable of without getting crude.

Damned if I want to toss any Bills fans on game day for righteous upset about league inconsistency and perceived favoring Pats.

But I also don't want to spend game day baby-sitting this topical relevant thread

 

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9 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Do fines affect wins and losses?

 

No, and neither do penalties when they can be offset by a guy on the opposite team with a handful of jersey.

 

Fundamentally, what the league just said is that if you see the refs throwing laundry, launch a free hit at any runner's helmet.  Knock him out but try flashing your shoulder at the last minute, and you're good.  Riveron says so.

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5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's extremely unlikely to happen.  Look at the language.  Key to the ruling is that Allen was regarded as a runner still capable of forward progress.  And you know it - he's gotten yards before with 1-3 guys hanging off him.

 

So we're extremely unlikely to see Brady in an identical situation subject to an identical hit.  Brady is gonna slide, or chuck the ball OOB.

 

The problem is, the league is saying it's OK to do that to a running back.  And if it is, they are no way serious about the helmet to helmet stuff.

I don't think it will happen either, but Riveron deserves to have it happen.  

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2 hours ago, ny33 said:

The legality of the play is a toss-up from my perspective; Jones was definitely too aggressive and positioned himself for a penalty, but I don't think it was driven by malice with intent to injure. Penalty and no fine seems quite appropriate. I'm much more concerned with the fact that the league didn't address, let alone suspend, Henry Anderson for trying to take Josh's legs out a few seconds after Allen was out of the play.

 

Riveron is an embarrassment who is doing more damage to the NFL than the league seems to realize; he's in the most important role in football other than the commissioner, and has prioritized defending the league and referee's decisions over driving continuous improvement and consistency in officiating. He's also made clear errors in numerous decisions in a role that has to be perfect in processing the facts and evidence off the field (Benjamin touchdown reversal last year, for example). The NFL is doing serious harm to its brand, especially post events like Spygate and the impact of officiating failures on games such as Saints-Vikings in last year's playoffs on top of the perception that certain players receive preferential treatment (there is clear evidence that mobile QBs like Newton are granted fewer roughing the passer calls on top of the widely-held belief that Brady and others are treated differently)

Have you seen the fines handed out weekly in the league? 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/05/demarcus-lawrence-fined-for-second-time-this-season/

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/05/von-miller-fined-21056-for-his-illegal-hit-on-gardner-minshew/

 

 

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9 hours ago, klos63 said:

Take off the Buffalo colored glasses and you will see that's exactly what happened. It wasn't a dirty hit.

 

What I see is that (regardless of intent and "dirtyness" of the hit)

1) Jones could have tackled the runner differently in a way that wouldn't smash helmets

2) If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, they have to take a consistent stance on Every One.  Every.  One.

 

Regardless of Jones intent, what the league just said to all DB is "if you see laundry fly, go ahead and helmet the runner in the hat.  your team won't suffer, and if you flip your shoulder as you hit, you're good"

 

I think this is very unfortunate.

 

27 minutes ago, mjpbills said:

If the hit was on Marsha there would have been an ejection and a fine

 

Again....look at the wording.  Allen being regarded as a runner at that point, still on his feet and churning forward for yards, is part of the picture.

 

You are NOT going to see Brady**** putting himself in that same situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, it's the league sending a message to Allen and the Bills as well: "if you (your boy) wants to put himself in harm's way, stiff-arm and truck over linebackers, put his head down and keep his feet churning for yards, he's getting no protection and no benefit of the doubt when he does"

 

Allen:  SLIDE.  S-L-I-D-E.

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8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What I see is that (regardless of intent and "dirtyness" of the hit)

1) Jones could have tackled the runner differently in a way that wouldn't smash helmets

2) If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, they have to take a consistent stance on Every One.  Every.  One.

 

Regardless of Jones intent, what the league just said to all DB is "if you see laundry fly, go ahead and helmet the runner in the hat.  your team won't suffer, and if you flip your shoulder as you hit, you're good"

 

I think this is very unfortunate.

 

 

Again....look at the wording.  Allen being regarded as a runner at that point, still on his feet and churning forward for yards, is part of the picture.

 

You are NOT going to see Brady**** putting himself in that same situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, it's the league sending a message to Allen and the Bills as well: "if you (your boy) wants to put himself in harm's way, stiff-arm and truck over linebackers, put his head down and keep his feet churning for yards, he's getting no protection and no benefit of the doubt when he does"

 

Allen:  SLIDE.  S-L-I-D-E.

Similar to Cam Newton...

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9 hours ago, The Wiz said:

So everyone in the league knows now, turn your shoulder at their helmet when you plan on leading with the helmet and you won't get fined. 

I'm curious if Matthews will get fined for his hit on Wilson from Thursday night. 

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10 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Did you know they assessed a penalty on the play?

Holding on offense, unnecessary roughness on defense.  Penalties offset.  3rd and 10.  Barkley came in and threw a 30 yard dime to Brown against a heavy blitz, in which Gilmore interfered with Brown.  But Brown made a fantastic one handed catch regardless.

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6 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I'm curious if Matthews will get fined for his hit on Wilson from Thursday night. 

 

I thought Matthews did get fined for his hit on Wilson.  Roughed up Russ Wilson, got kicked in the jaw by their RB on a later play.  Ejection from the game and at least 4 games "suspension".

 

That's how the league wants it to be I guess.  Just don't be dumb about it boys.

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4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought Matthews did get fined for his hit on Wilson.  Roughed up Russ Wilson, got kicked in the jaw by their RB on a later play.  Ejection from the game and at least 4 games "suspension".

 

That's how the league wants it to be I guess.  Just don't be dumb about it boys.

All while preaching that they're interested in player safety. JEESH hypocrits

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5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought Matthews did get fined for his hit on Wilson.  Roughed up Russ Wilson, got kicked in the jaw by their RB on a later play.  Ejection from the game and at least 4 games "suspension".

 

That's how the league wants it to be I guess.  Just don't be dumb about it boys.

I'm my option, which may be somewhat skewed,  the hit on Allen was much more egregious than the one Matthews put on Wilson. 

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2 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I'm my option, which may be somewhat skewed,  the hit on Allen was much more egregious than the one Matthews put on Wilson. 

 

Welp then, "fine" appropriately because the writing is on the wall from the league: they won't do a thing.

 

But Allen still has to stop stiff-arming guys and learn to slide.

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31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What I see is that (regardless of intent and "dirtyness" of the hit)

1) Jones could have tackled the runner differently in a way that wouldn't smash helmets

2) If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, they have to take a consistent stance on Every One.  Every.  One.

 

Regardless of Jones intent, what the league just said to all DB is "if you see laundry fly, go ahead and helmet the runner in the hat.  your team won't suffer, and if you flip your shoulder as you hit, you're good"

 

I think this is very unfortunate.

 

 

Again....look at the wording.  Allen being regarded as a runner at that point, still on his feet and churning forward for yards, is part of the picture.

 

You are NOT going to see Brady**** putting himself in that same situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, it's the league sending a message to Allen and the Bills as well: "if you (your boy) wants to put himself in harm's way, stiff-arm and truck over linebackers, put his head down and keep his feet churning for yards, he's getting no protection and no benefit of the doubt when he does"

 

Allen:  SLIDE.  S-L-I-D-E.

I'm okay with this, so long as it is consistent. I did not think this hit was dirty nor illegal. 

 

Just slide, bro!

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It is the kind of thing QBs who can run are subject to, particularly big, strong, physical QBs - Just ask Cam Newton. A double standard in that sense has existed for awhile.

 

However, when I watch this play, I just can't escape 2 facts:

 

1. It was definitely helmet to helmet contact first.

2. Jones' intent was not to attempt a normal, wrap up tackle, it was to deliver a hit - and, he absolutely intended to deliver that hit to Allen's head area. This is really the kind of thing the NFL needs to get rid of: the desire to deliver that highlight hit, instead of making a tackle. It is what gets players hurt.

 

I have watched every ange and fact number 2 above cannot be denied:

 

 

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For anyone defending this...can you honestly look me in the eyes and say were it Brady that was hit like that, there'd be no fine?

 

They got away with it because they are the Pats.  If the league is unwilling to send a message and defend it's players...whelp...I suppose it's up to the Bills.  Turn your shoulder and you can knock Brady into next week.  That's the precident the league just set, right?  What's good for the goose...

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