Progression from Good to Elite Defense

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Similar to Allen on offense.  Edmunds has been in position multiple times to make a big play.  To take the next step as a defense they need to score points.

 

 Good points. 

 

Elite defenses have 2 or 3 or more sacks a game as well as more turnovers.  

 

Where are all the INTs (from 2 years ago)?  

Where are the forced fumbles? 

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

 Good points. 

 

Elite defenses have 2 or 3 or more sacks a game as well as more turnovers.  

 

Where are all the INTs (from 2 years ago)?  

Where are the forced fumbles? 

The Bills have 7 sacks in 4 games , almost 2 a game...

 

No team averaged 4 sacks a game last season, and offenses know enough not to throw into the backend of our defense which will limit some Interceptions

 

If we keep forcing 3 and outs, and making teams fight for every yard , all the other things will come

[VW82]

Love how the defense is playing. They deserve all the credit though I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that we could lose Leslie Frazier tomorrow and wouldn’t miss a beat. McD is the one calling the shots here.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, VW82 said:

Love how the defense is playing. They deserve all the credit though I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that we could lose Leslie Frazier tomorrow and wouldn’t miss a beat. McD is the one calling the shots here.

Its obviously McDermott's team but you need to give Frazier credit for calling the game

 

He isn't just there to look pretty, he's calling the plays so gets credit for Dictating what teams do

[VW82]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Its obviously McDermott's team but you need to give Frazier credit for calling the game

 

He isn't just there to look pretty, he's calling the plays so gets credit for Dictating what teams do

 

That’s fair though I do question how much autonomy he really has. Are we sure McD gave him play calling duties back after he took them away last year? 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

That’s fair though I do question how much autonomy he really has. Are we sure McD gave him play calling duties back after he took them away last year? 

Yes 100% , he said it himself... Sometimes a HC takes on playcalling if a coordinator doesn't have a great feel for THAT PARTICULAR GAME... Frazier adapted after

 

Frazier has called every game since then

Edited October 3, 2019 by Buffalo716

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Elite is all about turnovers and short fields.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Elite is all about turnovers and short fields.

I don't think that's a fact ...

 

Id rather have a team ranked #1 in points against at the end of a season than any stat... We had some of the most turnovers in the league 2 years ago and our D was no where near the level of play now

 

Also when our offense constantly gives the other team the ball near with a short field , it's kinda hard for them to flip the field position...

 

They can only work with what happens

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They need a Stud pass rusher who finishes plays and not complains about getting held.  If they could get that, this would be one of the best defenses in franchise history.  

I agree with all of this and definitely would have welcomed JC here, especially at that awful trade Seattle got him for.  But he’s not an elite pass rusher. He should be but he’s not. 

They are what I would call stout and extremely effective. In order to be elite and impose your will on an offense, you've got to get in the QB's mug early and often. That's the missing component here. Yes, they dominated Brady, but don't forget about the Cincy game. Dalton had all day to throw in the 2nd half. Did you watch them against Pitt? Pitt was getting in his face to the bitter end and never let him get in sync because that OL is trash. The defense is very, very, good. Top 5 even. But I don't see the pressure/sacks and turnovers I want to see from an ELITE defense. Beane was poking around with stud edge rushers this past offseason and I expect him to make a move in 2020.

[Rocket94]

37 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

They are what I would call stout and extremely effective. In order to be elite and impose your will on an offense, you've got to get in the QB's mug early and often. That's the missing component here. Yes, they dominated Brady, but don't forget about the Cincy game. Dalton had all day to throw in the 2nd half. Did you watch them against Pitt? Pitt was getting in his face to the bitter end and never let him get in sync because that OL is trash. The defense is very, very, good. Top 5 even. But I don't see the pressure/sacks and turnovers I want to see from an ELITE defense. Beane was poking around with stud edge rushers this past offseason and I expect him to make a move in 2020.

When you say make a move for a pass rusher, are you referring to the 2020 draft, or FA's if any as well?

[Buffalo716]

40 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

They are what I would call stout and extremely effective. In order to be elite and impose your will on an offense, you've got to get in the QB's mug early and often. That's the missing component here. Yes, they dominated Brady, but don't forget about the Cincy game. Dalton had all day to throw in the 2nd half. Did you watch them against Pitt? Pitt was getting in his face to the bitter end and never let him get in sync because that OL is trash. The defense is very, very, good. Top 5 even. But I don't see the pressure/sacks and turnovers I want to see from an ELITE defense. Beane was poking around with stud edge rushers this past offseason and I expect him to make a move in 2020.

Dalton had all day to throw because they max protected and blocked 7 sometimes 8 in the second half

 

They had to because our 4 man rush destroyed their 5 man line

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Dalton had all day to throw because they max protected and blocked 7 sometimes 8 in the second half

 

They had to because our 4 man rush destroyed their 5 man line

So we have issues in the secondary or what? They changed their protection scheme against Pitt to no avail. Their line is trash so it's pretty much expected that a good defense will force them to use extra blockers.

6 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

When you say make a move for a pass rusher, are you referring to the 2020 draft, or FA's if any as well?

Either one. I know all signs point to the draft being plush with receivers(and we need one), but you never know how that'll shake out. I would prefer they draft a WR in RD 1 and find that edge on the market, but that's a ways off.

[Rocket94]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

So we have issues in the secondary or what? They changed their protection scheme against Pitt to no avail. Their line is trash so it's pretty much expected that a good defense will force them to use extra blockers.

Either one. I know all signs point to the draft being plush with receivers(and we need one), but you never know how that'll shake out. I would prefer they draft a WR in RD 1 and find that edge on the market, but that's a ways off.

Yeah...now that we are getting a better idea of this Bills team, the need for a dangerous No.1 receiver is obvious, as well as a DE. You are right and we already know Beane is thinking about it. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

So we have issues in the secondary or what? They changed their protection scheme against Pitt to no avail. Their line is trash so it's pretty much expected that a good defense will force them to use extra blockers.

Dalton looked lost for 90% of the game, but he's a 10 year vet who is good and will eventually make some throws

 

Blocking 7-8 is a gamble.. it's either a good success or a failure. You run routes long downfield that are zone and man beaters.. protection holds and someone usually runs open

 

Dalton's best throw came on 3rd and long where bills showed and brought dual a gap pressure... Cinci max protected , pocket barley held and Dalton threw a strike 20 yards downfield... If bills simulate dual a gap pressure and drop they probably stop him, they gambled with the blitz and got hit

 

Series by series game by game , you need to feel out how the game in the trenches in going

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Dalton looked lost for 90% of the game, but he's a 10 year vet who is good and will eventually make some throws

 

Blocking 7-8 is a gamble.. it's either a good success or a failure. You run routes long downfield that are zone and man beaters.. protection holds and someone usually runs open

 

Dalton's best throw came on 3rd and long where bills showed and brought dual a gap pressure... Cinci max protected , pocket barley held and Dalton threw a strike 20 yards downfield... If bills simulate dual a gap pressure and drop they probably stop him, they gambled with the blitz and got hit

 

Series by series game by game , you need to feel out how the game in the trenches in going

Good football insight, but it doesn't change the fact that our edge rushers are not great as a unit and that's where a large percentage of sacks/pressures/TURNOVERS emanate from.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Good football insight, but it doesn't change the fact that our edge rushers are not great as a unit and that's where a large percentage of sacks/pressures/TURNOVERS emanate from.

I agree this defense is one big time edge rusher away from being special. And that they impact the game in more ways than just sack numbers

 

But those guys don't grow on trees... Usually takes a top 10 pick to land a certified dominant edge rusher

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

4 weeks. 

Against 3 bad teams and the Pats.  

 

Keep this going for the next 4 games and I’ll sway closer to calling them elite.  

 

Keep this going for the next next 4 games and I’ll start calling them elite.  

 

I think they are clearly around the top in the league.  If you need more track record to quibble over top 3, 5 or 8 - that’s fair, but I think they are in the top range without being a generational group yet (a game changing pass rusher  and you start comparing to the greats)

[Stank_Nasty]

27 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Good football insight, but it doesn't change the fact that our edge rushers are not great as a unit and that's where a large percentage of sacks/pressures/TURNOVERS emanate from.

I fairly certain they are top 5 in turnovers. They are #2 in yds... take away the 16 non-offensive points scored against them and they are allowing 11 a game. That’s just nasty. Tops in 3 and outs. 

 

If the defense finishes top 3 in yds and points allowed like it very well could how isn’t that elite? You seem more worried about the style in which they get there. 

 

The chiefs led the NFL in sacks last year and their defense was an open wound. 

 

I give no cares how they get there. If they surrender top 3 yardage and top 3 points allowed(the #1 standard of a D), I have no idea how they cannot be considered with the elite d’s... and again. They are among the tops on the league in turnovers 

 

i saw you talking about imposing your will on an offense earlier.... holding the arguably the best team in the nfl, that has been average 30 a game, to 9 offensive points and 225 yds isn’t imposing your will? You need to see a sack or 2 there to make that claim? I don’t get it 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Continuity has been a huge factor in the success of the defense. Same coaches, same schemes, and many of the same players. Allows them to continue to install more and more and get more nuanced in their game plans. Allows them to make plays without having to think about the scheme or play call.

 

They are good at every level and have prefect players for the scheme for each spot. 

[Rocket94]

25 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Good football insight, but it doesn't change the fact that our edge rushers are not great as a unit and that's where a large percentage of sacks/pressures/TURNOVERS emanate from.

I must admit that I am surprised by the play of this defense. They have progressed faster than I imagined. I am impressed. Just imagine plugging in a few more pieces by 2020.