BuffaloBillies Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, GG said: You are correct. His head did hit the turf hard on the scramble in the 2nd drive though (he also coughed up the ball) You're right. Mystery solved. Chandler, you were probably thinking about the second drive - head was definitely driven into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said: I’ll buy this. I know what I saw, just not photographic evidence of precisely when. Definitely the 1st quarter. It’s subtle but undeniable. Did you see it in the game or on the broadcast? It may have happened away from the cameras, because there's nothing on the broadcast that shows him clearing the cobwebs at the start of 2nd or 3rd drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I remember him doing that (clearing the cobwebs), too! I’m glad you brought this up as it would explain a bunch regarding his play and makes perfect sense. What also fits is that Josh, I don’t believe, would EVER take himself out of a game. Just too much of a player to do so. 1 minute ago, GG said: Did you see it in the game or on the broadcast? It may have happened away from the cameras, because there's nothing on the broadcast that shows him clearing the cobwebs at the start of 2nd or 3rd drives. I saw it on the broadcast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 On the broadcast. They broke huddle and came up with Josh under Center. Before prepping for the snap, he quickly shook his head back & forth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Actual footage of Dr. Chandler in his element. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, Chandler#81 said: On the broadcast. They broke huddle and came up with Josh under Center. Before prepping for the snap, he quickly shook his head back & forth. Upon further review, you're probably referring to the play immediately after the sack. He jerks his head in one direction only, not back and forth. To me that suggests loosening his neck (he did get hit at the upper shoulder/neck) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, GG said: Did you see it in the game or on the broadcast? It may have happened away from the cameras, because there's nothing on the broadcast that shows him clearing the cobwebs at the start of 2nd or 3rd drives. Broadcasts lately have been HORRIBLE about replaying things. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 As for the theory, it wouldn't surprise me, and it would actually make some level of sense as it could be a factor in the decision making, or lack there-of, that was on display throughout the first half. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Actual footage of Dr. Chandler in his element. This is actually quite flattering!? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergie's ire Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I remember seeing the head shake and had exactly the same reaction. Thought "oh no, head injury" but then when he kept playing I forgot. As for the play that did it, it could be the sack even if his head didn't hit the turf. When players hit their heads against the turf, it usually isn't the blow itself that causes the damage. It's the sudden stopping. Essentially, the brain sloshes around causing damage. So, if his head was braced against his shoulder...so that his neck couldn't act as a shock absorber...then he could have received such an injury. Then the second injury would make it worse. In high school, I remember hitting my head playing soccer and coming out because of the headache. And then I remember being in the locker room and having no clue how I got there. According to friends, I went back in and hit my head a second time....which caused a walking black out. And no, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn.....but I watched a lot of Quincy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said: This is actually quite flattering!? preppin that prostate exam.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Note 1: it’s an Honorary Title. (with apologies to a certain poster) Note 2: I don’t have the luxury of recording games, so this comes solely by watching the game Sunday. I haven’t brought this up yet and been looking unsuccessfully in every thread to see if it was noticed as well, but I’m absolutely convinced Allen was concussed in the very 1st Drive. He was sacked & lost a fumble, because the front of his head was slammed into the turf falling back towards our end zone. I caught it immediately and focused hard on him getting up and whenever the camera showed him. Next drive out, on the 1st play, he came up under Center and whipped his head back & forth quickly & violently. (Clearing cobwebs -I’m convinced) I know what that ‘movement’ means and no one has ever done it that wasn’t trying to shake themselves alert. If he’s honest with team Drs. & coaches about this, MAYBE he returns after the Bye -because he was absolutely knocked the ef out later in the game. Anyway, I’m convinced this ne’er before discussed concuss is at the root of his game long issues. Flame if you have the game recorded and can dispute this by further viewings. Dr. Chandler#81 Hm. I DVR'd it. I'll watch again at lunch and see. Good catch if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 35 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Seriously, what the hell is the difference? Is there a clinical term for Bell Rung? Bell run is the first concussion you describe. Josh got hit hard but was able to keep playing. The second time he was he was knocked out cold. That a straight up concussion, worse than getting your bell rung. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, whatdrought said: As for the theory, it wouldn't surprise me, and it would actually make some level of sense as it could be a factor in the decision making, or lack there-of, that was on display throughout the first half. Josh came out after half time and his 3rd quarter play was much better. They went more for the quick, short route stuff and Allen looked much better. So I'm not sure I buy Allen was concussed in the 1st quarter. If there were any indications that Josh might have suffered a concussion as a result of hitting his head on the turf in Q1, the officials would have been all over that, and Allen would not have been on the field past that point in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Josh came out after half time and his 3rd quarter play was much better. They went more for the quick, short route stuff and Allen looked much better. So I'm not sure I buy Allen was concussed in the 1st quarter. If there were any indications that Josh might have suffered a concussion as a result of hitting his head on the turf in Q1, the officials would have been all over that, and Allen would not have been on the field past that point in the game. It was minor but it was a tell. I doubt any coach or ref would have noticed it. If you’ve never been concussed, you can continue to function. It’s later where the issues pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Coach Gase called. He recommended smelling salts, and said “get back out there, Rosen!” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Josh came out after half time and his 3rd quarter play was much better. They went more for the quick, short route stuff and Allen looked much better. So I'm not sure I buy Allen was concussed in the 1st quarter. If there were any indications that Josh might have suffered a concussion as a result of hitting his head on the turf in Q1, the officials would have been all over that, and Allen would not have been on the field past that point in the game. Fair enough. For all the attention “CONCUSSION” fuels, everyone who’s ever played a physical game can attest there are levels of head impact from minor to severe. I used the term concussion because that’s the catchall term for everything from “bell rung” to out cold. I’ve yet to see anyone of true medical knowledge be able to discern this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Note 1: it’s an Honorary Title. (with apologies to a certain poster) Note 2: I don’t have the luxury of recording games, so this comes solely by watching the game Sunday. I haven’t brought this up yet and been looking unsuccessfully in every thread to see if it was noticed as well, but I’m absolutely convinced Allen was concussed in the very 1st Drive. He was sacked & lost a fumble, because the front of his head was slammed into the turf falling back towards our end zone. I caught it immediately and focused hard on him getting up and whenever the camera showed him. Next drive out, on the 1st play, he came up under Center and whipped his head back & forth quickly & violently. (Clearing cobwebs -I’m convinced) I know what that ‘movement’ means and no one has ever done it that wasn’t trying to shake themselves alert. If he’s honest with team Drs. & coaches about this, MAYBE he returns after the Bye -because he was absolutely knocked the ef out later in the game. Anyway, I’m convinced this ne’er before discussed concuss is at the root of his game long issues. Flame if you have the game recorded and can dispute this by further viewings. Dr. Chandler#81 .....great observation and diagnosis Doc..... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Fair enough. For all the attention “CONCUSSION” fuels, everyone who’s ever played a physical game can attest there are levels of head impact from minor to severe. I used the term concussion because that’s the catchall term for everything from “bell rung” to out cold. I’ve yet to see anyone of true medical knowledge be able to discern this. Ah, I see what you're getting at. If there is a "grey area" between concussion and not a concussion, Josh might have been there. The hit in the 4th quarter put him over the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Then you probably can’t check/show him whipping his head before taking the snap on the next drive. That’s what convinced me what I saw hurt him. 38 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: I’ll buy this. I know what I saw, just not photographic evidence of precisely when. Definitely the 1st quarter. It’s subtle but undeniable. 32 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: On the broadcast. They broke huddle and came up with Josh under Center. Before prepping for the snap, he quickly shook his head back & forth. This is the sack in the 1st Quareter: This is after breaking the huddle: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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