The Real Buffalo Joe Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: What makes you think he’ll learn? Because in nearly 1 1/2 years as a pro, he hasn’t. He's showing improvement in every game, save this one. Countless times this year, the pass to Knox right at the edge of the field comes to mind, where I said to anybody who would listen "A year ago, he runs that ball and maybe gains five yards." It seems to me that ever since the intentional grounding call against Cincinnati, he's been afraid to throw it away which I hope he works on. He had a bad game against an elite D. You know who else didn't have a spectacular outing? Tom Brady, the alleged GOAT. This was a very good game between two top notch defenses. Edited October 1, 2019 by The Real Buffalo Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Get a coordinator for him to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Predictable hysteria to what was also predictable - he was going to have a bad game at some point. The Bills won 3 games because of Allen and will win plenty more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, FLFan said: Predictable hysteria to what was also predictable - he was going to have a bad game at some point. The Bills won 3 games because of Allen and will win plenty more. There is hysteria but it's not all hysteria. Just like it wasnt just Allen that won the three games. No 2 defence in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, london_bills said: There is hysteria but it's not all hysteria. Just like it wasnt just Allen that won the three games. No 2 defence in the league. Interesting point....he also didnt lose the pats game along. If ST's doesnt give up a TD we win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Interesting point....he also didnt lose the pats game along. If ST's doesnt give up a TD we win? Absolutely. he didn't lose the game on his own no. I mean 3 picks is giving the opposition the ball 3 times but the defence again did their thing. The interceptions with Allen don't bother ME that much. Neither does throwing across the body. There IS an issue with both of those but he's hit some for gains and I want an element of that still there because it's exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Interesting point....he also didnt lose the pats game along. If ST's doesnt give up a TD we win? I guess you can hold the other team to never try to score more points if they were needed and safely take a TD off the board and convince yourself the Bills would have scored a TD without the other team trying to respond this can be fun, but not worth your while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, row_33 said: I guess you can hold the other team to never try to score more points if they were needed and safely take a TD off the board and convince yourself the Bills would have scored a TD without the other team trying to respond this can be fun, but not worth your while It really isnt.....the bottom line is they lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: It really isnt.....the bottom line is they lost yup.... all decisions are made in real time based on 1) the score 2) how much time is left or innings or whatever 3) the resources you have in real time on your team to implement 4) your goals for the contest and you make the decisions from these 4 factors right on the spot and live with it and please don't bother trying to override this.... pretend a loss can become a win.... not worth your while i hate it when a man is caught stealing in baseball and the next guy hits a home run and the announcer says "that caught stealing cost them a run" because the situation completely changed the second the man was thrown out.... but that's me... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 On 9/30/2019 at 4:54 PM, Nihilarian said: Some OC's tend to call plays in whatever they want without understanding the QB's they have under them aren't elite, fully developed players. Bills WR John Brown recently stated that this current offensive scheme is the most complex, complicated he has been involved in. I have no doubt that Josh Allen has the smarts to understand the entire offensive scheme and make it work. What the problem is he was going against the most complex defense in the league that confuses even the best QB's out there. Josh was seeing multiple coverage's, looks and players switching positions which were causing him problems. Plus the Patriots were playing a tight man to man which was taking away that short stuff to Beasley, Brown. If you go back to watch the film to look at the NE defense, the Patriots ran against the Steeler's in week one vs what they ran against Miami it looked like two completely different defenses. Herein is the problem in that Bills OC Brian Daboll should have been calling plays that would allow that young QB to settle in and gain some confidence, get into a rhythm which would require working the run game well enough to move the chains so the QB doesn't need to shoulder the offense. Work the run game like Anthony Lynn, Greg Roman did with a less talented line. Once the Pats defense is worried about stopping the run game then work the passing game. The Bills should be running the ball much more then they are passing it and they should have been doing this all season. If they are forced to pass because the run game isn't working then find those short passes that allow completions, get confidence up, get him in a rhythm and good things should happen. Instead, the Bills came out throwing Pass, pass, sack! Penalty on Pats defense for holding! Frank Gore 9 yards, Gore 2 yards and back to the passing again. Pass, incomplete but Center Mitch Morse penalty. Frank Gore run, no gain. Penalty on Lee Smith holding. Now its 1st and 20 on the Buffalo 30 yard line and Allen goes deep middle, intercepted! Knowing how good that Patriots defense is against the pass the Bills should have been working Gore and Yeldon more all game. Frank Gore had 17 rushes for 109 yards and it should have been more. This current OC is pass happy regardless of the situation, QB, opposing defense and he has been his entire career. The Pats did exactly what I said they would do, fill the box, make it hard to run (numbers wise) and take the short middle away.. instantly, Allen is in his worst spot and he has to do what he doesn't like or he starts making stupid decisions. He chose the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 56 minutes ago, london_bills said: There is hysteria but it's not all hysteria. Just like it wasnt just Allen that won the three games. No 2 defence in the league. Yes with respect to your comment on defense, but we were talking about QB play. As far as the hysteria is concerned, yes it is. There are absolutely no concerns arising from the NE game that were not already present. Allen is precisely the same player today as he was before the game, albeit more experienced. Yet people are now comparing him to Trent Edwards and suggesting that Barkley will be an improvement. Clearly, mass hysteria has taken over Bills Nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, FLFan said: Yes with respect to your comment on defense, but we were talking about QB play. As far as the hysteria is concerned, yes it is. There are absolutely no concerns arising from the NE game that were not already present. Allen is precisely the same player today as he was before the game, albeit more experienced. Yet people are now comparing him to Trent Edwards and suggesting that Barkley will be an improvement. Clearly, mass hysteria has taken over Bills Nation. I disagree. I saw something further against new England that made me question whether he has it. He was intimidated to me. How do you know he is precisely the same player after the game that he was before? He's better than Edwards and Barkley and we both know that. There are more highs and lows with Allen than the other two. Edited October 1, 2019 by london_bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 12 hours ago, Gugny said: The 15 start mark is also where the fanbase started calling for EJ's head. I remember it like it was yesterday. This is a completely different situation, from ownership on down (thank GOD). I'm confident the end result will also be different. And EJ's first 15 were statically better than Josh's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) ...kid has 15 effin' starts.......boy I'd stay up late at night hopin' Bflo drafts me as their QB so I can walk down the pigeon s#&t stained "welcome mat".....I'd opt for Grad School...then my PhD......SMH.......... Edited October 1, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 he has a long way to go but havent given up on him. He will never be a great QB because of his inaccuracy. He can become a good QB if he learns to have more composure...throwing the ball away when needed, working to his strengths and knowing his limitationsHaving more awareness out there when we are in FG position(sacks are not acceptable esp when they take you out of FG range). There is just too much time when he loses focus and we end up scoring no points for 3 QTRS after we have been driving down the field all day...-We cant expect our D to be the 2000 ravens.we are good but not that good. 17 minutes ago, london_bills said: I disagree. I saw something further against new England that made me question whether he has it. He was intimidated to me. How do you know he is precisely the same player after the game that he was before? He's better than Edwards and Barkley and we both know that. There are more highs and lows with Allen than the other two. barkley is way better than edwards. as soon as teams realized that all edwards could throw was a buttonhook then defending him became very easy. he couldnt lead a receiver if his life depended on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 10 hours ago, SoTier said: Russell Wilson as a rookie also relied on heavy run support in the person of Marshawn Lynch. In fact, Wilson wasn't considered a grerat passer until his third or fourth year in the league. That doesn't mean that he "didn't get it from the start". Wasn't considered by whom? I'm not sure what you're basing this on. But I live in Seattle and watch the Seahawks a lot just cuz their local and on. I pegged Russell as a good passer right out of the chute. That's the difference between him and other running QBs. he is also a really good passer and was the start IMHO. I recall one game in particular where they were down on last drive Russell threw a perfect 30 yard pass to Sidney Rice to get the win. In his rookie year he threw for 3100+ yards at a 64.1 % for 7.9 YPA 26 TDs vs 10 picks. I'd take that all day everyday. Even from our 2nd year guy. He's almost got the picks. So at least there's that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tcali said: he has a long way to go but havent given up on him. He will never be a great QB because of his inaccuracy. He can become a good QB if he learns to have more composure...throwing the ball away when needed, working to his strengths and knowing his limitationsHaving more awareness out there when we are in FG position(sacks are not acceptable esp when they take you out of FG range). There is just too much time when he loses focus and we end up scoring no points for 3 QTRS after we have been driving down the field all day...-We cant expect our D to be the 2000 ravens.we are good but not that good. barkley is way better than edwards. as soon as teams realized that all edwards could throw was a buttonhook then defending him became very easy. he couldnt lead a receiver if his life depended on it. 'he will never be a great QB because of his inaccuracy'. I tend to agree. I always notice how INACCURATE Allen is when another QB Barkley or Peterman, yes Peterman, came in and looked more pinpoint. When Allen's IN RHYTHM he's better on all fronts. He's not naturally accurate and so this element of his game gets worse when he is under pressure or 'in his head'. Edited October 1, 2019 by london_bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, london_bills said: 'he will never be a great QB because of his inaccuracy'. I tend to agree. I always notice how INACCURATE Allen is when another QB Barkley or Peterman, yes Peterman, came in and looked more pinpoint. When Allen's IN RHYTHM he's better on all fronts. He's not naturally accurate and so this element of his game gets worse when he is under pressure or 'in his head'. yep the weakness is accentuated under pressure...whereas with guys like kelly,montana etc they get more accurate the more pressure there is. JA can work on these things.If he judiciously uses his GREAT running ability this will also be helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tcali said: yep the weakness is accentuated under pressure...whereas with guys like kelly,montana etc they get more accurate the more pressure there is. JA can work on these things.If he judiciously uses his GREAT running ability this will also be helpful Its like tunnel vision your describing. I HAVE seen that kind of thing with Allen in terms of focus, in clutch moments, but it's whether it can be sustained or whether he will only ever flash it. He always seems more settled when he can run for some yards in drives, teams will take that away though and force him to be a pocket passer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 So now this has derailed into a conversation about Mahomes? What the hell. Let's be objective about this folks. Here's Allen's season in a nutshell: JETS Game (this was in the Meadowlands WITH Darnold... lest we forget there was a good deal of preseason hype for the Jets) -Solid and productive and demonstrated a good grasp of the offense, BUT... -Terrible bounces of the football. AT LEAST half of the turnovers in that game just weren't on Josh, and you could make an argument that he wasn't primarily culpable in any of them. BUT... -Brought the team back down 13 in the 4th Quarter -Pretty accurate for the whole game GIANTS Game -Don't complain about this game. Josh was really good. -210 yards passing in the 1st half with 1 passing TD and 1 rushing TD -Foot completely off the gas in the 2nd half... something that I think goes to both Daboll and player execution across the offense. -Pretty accurate for the whole game BENGALS Game -Seemed the same trend as the Giants game. -Great 1st half with 190 passing yards and a TD along. -Terrible INT in the 2nd half. -Recovered though for the 4th Quarter Game Winning Drive -Pretty accurate for the whole game. PATRIOTS Game -We all saw that 1st half. Utterly attrocious. Horrible accuracy. Bad decisions. -Final drive of the 1st half we still got in makeable FG range -1st drive of the 2nd half the no-huddle was really working to help Allen and the offense get in rhythm... don't know why they stopped the no-huddle -Another horrible INT -Seemed to start figuring things out getting the team moving. -Concussed. Does anyone disagree with that assessment of those games? Now, which one of those is not like the other? So why the F&^%& are we FREAKING out over 1 bad game against the greatest coach in NFL history who has cut his teeth on eating young QBs alive? R-E-L-A-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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