Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: what are you talking about? You can’t start a rookie/2nd year QB and then put him back on the bench after giving him the ball. It’s a confidence killer You said upthread you've seen progression for Daniel Jones. In two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: You are absolutely fukin hopeless.....if Josh didnt have the turnovers and had low passing yards...that would be the thing you are bitching about Take a lap Well he actually has both so not sure that is a good example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: The only thing putrid I read was the OP Holy crap . no protection, WRs barely getting seperation, playcalling was meh and Allen had to play Superman to make anything work but he was the reason we lost If Barkley played the remaining 12 we might win 1-2 games We're going places if Allen stays healthy You can't bench him for barkley PTR. If you do that you might as well trade him because he's 20x the QB Barkley is at this moment and that will kill the team you do realize that the protection issues as you put it, are Allen’s fault the majority of the time. He either doesn’t read the defense or holds onto the ball too long. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said: you do realize that the protection issues as you put it, are Allen’s fault the majority of the time. He either doesn’t read the defense or holds onto the ball too long. He hold the ball long plenty But there were also free rushers in his face all day, off the edge coming untouched Our interior had it's worst day of the season And the WRs were not getting constant seperation forcing Josh to hold the ball If there were dudes running wide open all day and Josh was not getting touched in the pocket I'd say he was awful.. but none of that happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 43 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: How do you explain the success of a player like Daniel Jones? In just a few starts, he is elevating the entire offense. How much time should we give Allen? 5 years? 6 years? If he’s any good we should see progress soon. And “progress” was not what we saw yesterday Allen came out and destroyed Minnesota in one of his first games, did he not? Young QBs have ups and downs. Jones will too. Allen has a down yesterday. Leading three victories up to yesterday were ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: First he's not a rookie. Second he's still doing dumb stuff. Third he still does dumb stuff after his OC tells him not to do dumb stuff. Players get benched all the time. It's not the end of their careers. Especially when you make it clear why. If Allen can't handle that then he's the wrong guy. If Allen is healthy enough to play then he should be playing. If he can’t learn from these mistakes then he’s not going to last long. I don’t see how benching him for a clearly inferior QB helps him or this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Not at all. I said there would be some serious bumps in the road, and that was one of them. Atrocious play, but not shocking to me. Belichick does that to young QB’s - you live and, hopefully, you learn. There was a lot to learn from there. I’ve been hopeful, but have yet to be completely sold. I remain hopeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: You said upthread you've seen progression for Daniel Jones. In two games. Sure, they are 2-0 with him as QB including a convincing win versus a bad Washington team. He’s providing a spark and making the overall offense better. This is what you want to see from a new QB. Not 3 INT’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Can everyone agree that Allen had a bad bay? Some people seem to argue that he did not or that it was other peoples fault. Yes, you expect a young QB to struggle vs BB; but he had an atrocious game. No defending it nor is defending it needed. The hope is we have a QB that can go toe to toe with BB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Allen came out and destroyed Minnesota in one of his first games, did he not? Young QBs have ups and downs. Jones will too. Allen has a down yesterday. Leading three victories up to yesterday were ups. But did he really “lead” them to 3 victories. When he needed to, he came through. You can’t take that away from him. But you can also argue that it was the defense that led the team to victories. Allen has moved the ball at QB which is good, but between his INT’s, fumbles, or sacks, he’s also taking points off the board. He did this in 3 out of 4 games - you can’t say that this is not a concern 2 minutes ago, ngbills said: Can everyone agree that Allen had a bad bay? Some people seem to argue that he did not or that it was other peoples fault. Yes, you expect a young QB to struggle vs BB; but he had an atrocious game. No defending it nor is defending it needed. The hope is we have a QB that can go toe to toe with BB. And we might have one....but my point is - we have to stop seeing some of the negative plays we saw yesterday. The decision making, mistakes, and poor decisions need to stop at some point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Allen came out and destroyed Minnesota in one of his first games, did he not? Young QBs have ups and downs. Jones will too. Allen has a down yesterday. Leading three victories up to yesterday were ups. He didn’t really destroy them. He made some plays with his legs and made some great passes where WR’s were schemes open. But that was a good game for a rookie QB. Yesterday's game wasn’t just bad.... it was atrocious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Phil The Thrill said: But did he really “lead” them to 3 victories. When he needed to, he came through. You can’t take that away from him. But you can also argue that it was the defense that led the team to victories. Allen has moved the ball at QB which is good, but between his INT’s, fumbles, or sacks, he’s also taking points off the board. He did this in 3 out of 4 games - you can’t say that this is not a concern When he needed to, he came through. There’s your answer. He needs to play better overall. I say this repeatedly: the biggest thing for young QBs is to get the game to slow down. It is slowing down for Allen, we certainly saw that in the first three games. Yesterday as I’ve said earlier today the moment was too big for him. At this point in his career at least. When he finally gets he can destroy teams by just taking what’s there and that he doesn’t have to make the home run play every time he’ll be really good. It’s there, we can see it, but he has to stop making two mistakes: holding onto the ball too long when the play isn’t there and taking bad sacks and throwing deep into coverage to try and make a big play. 1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said: He didn’t really destroy them. He made some plays with his legs and made some great passes where WR’s were schemes open. But that was a good game for a rookie QB. Yesterday's game wasn’t just bad.... it was atrocious You have ascertainment bias, it’s pretty clear. You decided a while ago Josh won’t be the guy. So when you bring up Jones as a rookie and has a good game, it’s how great Jones was. But when Josh did the same thing against the Vikings last year it’s that it was the WRs and the playcalling. Anything but him playing well. Too bad, I thought you were interested in serious give and take. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Nope. If the hero ball is going on in week 15 I’ll be concerned for next season. Fair enough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoudyBills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I think you are putting too much stock in the Daniel Jones thing. That said, I am getting nervous. He needs to eliminate the Peterman stretches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 41 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: We're going places if Allen stays healthy You can't bench him for barkley PTR. If you do that you might as well trade him because he's 20x the QB Barkley is at this moment and that will kill the team It looks like my scenario will work itself out anyway. Allen won't play Sunday, my gut tells me. Benching him, sitting him, concussion protocol, all adds up the same. He won't be back til the Miami game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Josh was terrible yesterday. There is no sugar coating it or excusing it. But you are right about Daboll. He did not call a good game. The 3rd down call on that 4 down series by the goalline was awful. Made no sense. I am not generally a guy who plays blame the OC.... but I thought Daboll had one of his worst nights with the Bills last night. Im not saying he wasn't bad, I am saying its foolish to over react over one game and ignore a lot of the positives we have seen from him since he has been a Bill. But yeah, I dont like to blame the OC either, but wow Daboll was terrible yesterday and I really do think it contributed to Allens struggles. Doesn't absolve Allen, and he gets to own the mistakes, but at the same time Daboll did him no favors yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 hours ago, DCofNC said: Go ahead and list the QBs Daboll has worked with in all those stints as well.. then see if your argument holds water. I'm not big on Daboll, but you cant deny he's never had a real qb to work with. Some OC's tend to call plays in whatever they want without understanding the QB's they have under them aren't elite, fully developed players. Bills WR John Brown recently stated that this current offensive scheme is the most complex, complicated he has been involved in. I have no doubt that Josh Allen has the smarts to understand the entire offensive scheme and make it work. What the problem is he was going against the most complex defense in the league that confuses even the best QB's out there. Josh was seeing multiple coverage's, looks and players switching positions which were causing him problems. Plus the Patriots were playing a tight man to man which was taking away that short stuff to Beasley, Brown. If you go back to watch the film to look at the NE defense, the Patriots ran against the Steeler's in week one vs what they ran against Miami it looked like two completely different defenses. Herein is the problem in that Bills OC Brian Daboll should have been calling plays that would allow that young QB to settle in and gain some confidence, get into a rhythm which would require working the run game well enough to move the chains so the QB doesn't need to shoulder the offense. Work the run game like Anthony Lynn, Greg Roman did with a less talented line. Once the Pats defense is worried about stopping the run game then work the passing game. The Bills should be running the ball much more then they are passing it and they should have been doing this all season. If they are forced to pass because the run game isn't working then find those short passes that allow completions, get confidence up, get him in a rhythm and good things should happen. Instead, the Bills came out throwing Pass, pass, sack! Penalty on Pats defense for holding! Frank Gore 9 yards, Gore 2 yards and back to the passing again. Pass, incomplete but Center Mitch Morse penalty. Frank Gore run, no gain. Penalty on Lee Smith holding. Now its 1st and 20 on the Buffalo 30 yard line and Allen goes deep middle, intercepted! Knowing how good that Patriots defense is against the pass the Bills should have been working Gore and Yeldon more all game. Frank Gore had 17 rushes for 109 yards and it should have been more. This current OC is pass happy regardless of the situation, QB, opposing defense and he has been his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Bangarang said: If Allen is healthy enough to play then he should be playing. If he can’t learn from these mistakes then he’s not going to last long. I don’t see how benching him for a clearly inferior QB helps him or this team. Don't think of Barkley as inferior. He's a change up. How would you feel if Allen plays and keeps taking 3rd down sacks and throwing picks because you don't want to sit him for one game? Don't sweat it because it's happening anyway. Barkley will start Sunday. Edited September 30, 2019 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, CoudyBills said: I think you are putting too much stock in the Daniel Jones thing. That said, I am getting nervous. He needs to eliminate the Peterman stretches. I might be putting too much stock in him, for sure. The thing I notice is that the Giants offense looks completely different when he’s under center vs. Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dous21 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 My big fear is Allen never improving the braindead mistakes and never learning how to read a defense and we are stuck with him like Tampa with Winston hoping every year we can improve An even bigger fear is Mcdermott and this staff failing to reach the playoffs in the next 2 years with a SB caliber defense. If that happens we need to hit the restart button and start thinking about bring in an offensive genius HC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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