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Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?


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2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Prior to yesterdays game, Allen was in the top 15 in the league.  Can he play a full season before you claim one of the worst passers in the league?  His passer rating was 83.4 before yesterday.  He had a really bad game against one of the best defenses in the NFL and that brought his rating way down.

 

This isn't true, again.

 

He was 26th in the NFL in QB Rating before yesterday's game. 

 

83.4 in today's NFL is horrible.

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19 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

This has nothing to do with the receivers.

 

The issue in this clip is that the Pats have 8 men in the box and are showing blitz and Allen has 7 guys into block. 

 

The math isn't on his side. He doesn't have enough guys to block the number of potential rushers.

 

Instead of recognizing this and changing the play, Allen takes the snap and takes his usual drop as if he has no idea that a blitz is coming. He takes a 5 step drop from shotgun, and makes no effort to get the ball out of his hands to a receiver to either complete a pass or avoid a sack. He just takes the sack, oblivious to the fact that the safety coming off the edge was coming unblocked. 


As happened numerous times yesterday, Allen really struggled to read the defense pre and post snap. This is an example of that. 

 

By no means am I saying Allen has been great reading the defense.  And I wasn’t talking about just this one play and was more talking about overall it’s not always that cut and dry.

 

But you’re also making a lot of assumptions on this play you don’t know are true.  You don’t know that Allen didn’t recognize the blitz.  You don’t know if Allen had an open receiver to throw the ball to.  You don’t know if someone missed their assignment on blocking the safety.

 

More importantly, Allen went to step up into the pocket which would have helped avoid the safety but couldn’t do it because he had an unblocked LB barreling down on him for the sack from the right side.  

 

I am just trying to point out that sacks are a result of more than just a QBs decisions.  And as fans, we do not know what Allen did or didn’t see, if any of the other players executed properly in their assignments, if the receivers did their job and got open, etc.  

 

I am also not naive that Allen has stuff to work on either, including reading the D.  He is still a young and learning QB who just faced the greatest defensive mind in history.

 

For me, Josh’s biggest mistakes yesterday were a result of two things:  Trying to do too much and over confidence in his arm talent.  Receivers were just not getting open often enough against a top defense, and Allen started trying to play playground football throwing off his back foot and stuff to guys scrambling  to find some space.  He just can’t do that, his mechanics go to hell too when he does that

 

Absolutely most important thing Josh needs to learn from this game is that his defense is Elite.  And that means he does not need to force things when it’s not there and just punt and let the D get you the ball back and keep the game close to give you another shot on the next series.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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He's way too prone to heroball moments and has real difficulty reading safeties coming over in coverage. Was this game disappointing, absolutely. Do I think he's further behind in his development than I thought he was? Yep. Does that mean I don't think he can get to where we need him to be? No.

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Just now, jrober38 said:

 

This isn't true, again.

 

He was 26th in the NFL in QB Rating before yesterday's game. 

 

83.4 in today's NFL is horrible.

Whatever man.  I look at stats every week.  He was in the top 15 QBs every week in multiple passing categories.  Rating is not the end all be all.  Again... let the season play out.  He is 23 years old in his 15th game.  Not every QB starts out like Mahomes

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Josh Allen has yet to have a 300+yrd 3TD 0INT game where HE took the game in his hands and won it for us and until he does that a few times he really can't be considered a franchise QB. I'm sorry. that's my opinion. 

 

He has been held up by our amazing defense in almost every single game this season. I'm almost losing trust in him every time he drops back to pass and heaves it downfield. But its a long season and he has lots of room to fix his mistakes and learn. 

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No here's why?  Because Allen is starting to get feared in the league because his arm teams are not playing 8 and 10 man fronts and are starting to put the safeties deep this is giving the ability they did not have last year and that is a running game.  I know frank gore is playing well but this is not the frank gore that carried the niners to the super bowl he does not have the ability he had to cut the outside if the Bill's can get a young running back in up coming drafts that can carry the rock 20 times like Elliott, nick chubb, they can be a dangerous offense.

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40 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Against Bill Belichick's defense.  Now go to the message board of the Patriots opponents week after week & you'll see someone saying the same thing.  That's because nobody does it better than Belichick & week after week, year after year he's made a career of making the opposing QB play the worst or close to the worst game of the QB's career.    

Lol they telegraphed cover 0 over and over. Josh threw off his back foot without pressure for two easy picks. BB had a good game plan because it rattled Josh and put him in a position to implode, which he did.

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Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

By no means am I saying Allen has been great reading the defense.  And I wasn’t talking about just this one play and was more talking about overall it’s not always that cut and dry.

 

But you’re also making a lot of assumptions on this play you don’t know are true.  You don’t know that Allen didn’t recognize the blitz.  You don’t know if Allen had an open receiver to throw the ball to.  You don’t know if someone missed their assignment on blocking the safety.

 

More importantly, Allen went to step up into the pocket which would have helped avoid the safety but couldn’t do it because he had an unblocked LB barreling down on him for the sack from the right side.  

 

I am just trying to point out that sacks are a result of more than just a QBs decisions.  And as fans, we do not know what Allen did or didn’t see, if any he other players executed properly in their assignments, if the receivers did their job and got open, etc.  

 

I am also not naive that Allen has stuff to work on either, including reading the D.  He is still a young and learning QB.  

 

For me, Josh’s biggest mistakes yesterday were a result of two things:  Trying to do too much and over confidence in his arm talent.  Receivers were just not getting open often enough against a top defense, and Allen started trying to play playground football throwing off his back foot and stuff to guys scrambling  to find some space.  He just can’t do that, his mechanics go to hell too when he does that

 

Absolutely most important thing Josh needs to learn from this game is that his defense is Elite.  And that means he does not need to force things when it’s not there and just punt and let the D get you the ball back and keep the game close to give you another shot on the next series.

 

Stop it.

 

8 men in the box, and 7 blockers. How can someone have missed the safety if there aren't enough guys in blocking?

 

And I don't care if a receiver is open or not. Tom Brady showed numerous times (1 or 2 were questionable) how to throw the ball at one of your receiver's feet to avoid a sack. He knows when he'll be under pressure, and when he knows he can't get to the 2nd read if the first guy isn't open he's throwing it at someones feet and avoiding the sack.

 

Allen doesn't do that here, or ever really. He's completely oblivious to what's going on around him on this play, and the result is a sack that could have been avoided. 

 

I hate comparing anyone to Brady, and I don't want to make it seem like I expect Allen to do what Brady does all the time, but come on. Read the D, know you're not going to have more than 2 seconds to throw and get the ball out of your hand.

 

Live to fight another day on the next down. Don't take a sack that will just kill a drive. 

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13 minutes ago, Fan in San Diego said:

I think this discussion is way to premature. Lets see if JA learns to slide after getting his bell rung this bad. And hopefully the urge to toss it up while running away from defenders. Throw it out of bounds JA.

 

 

Brady killed about 5 plays yesterday, a few one second after he set up in the pocket.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Nope. Incorrect.

 

He was a reason. But if you had to pick only one, it would be the blocked punt. Or the missed FG. Both before Allen's performance. Those were each single, specific plays that greatly turned the tide of the game. You cant spot the Pats 10 pts and then lose by 6 16-10.

Josh took two sacks that pushed us out of FG range twice. Left an extra 6 on board 

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6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Whatever man.  I look at stats every week.  He was in the top 15 QBs every week in multiple passing categories.  Rating is not the end all be all.  Again... let the season play out.  He is 23 years old in his 15th game.  Not every QB starts out like Mahomes

Don't bother arguing with rober.  When we win next week he'll disappear.  He only shows up when they lose so he can crow about being some kind of QB expert. 

 

Allen stunk yesterday and has to play better. He has to stop making the same mistake with the late ball into coverage.  But let's remember he stunk against the best defensive coach in history.  He's not the first and won't be the last.

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4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Whatever man.  I look at stats every week.  He was in the top 15 QBs every week in multiple passing categories.  Rating is not the end all be all.  Again... let the season play out.  He is 23 years old in his 15th game.  Not every QB starts out like Mahomes

 

It's not whatever. He's been at the bottom of the league all season in QB Rating.

 

This isn't something that just happened yesterday. 

 

Allen is the same offense as he was last season, with better receivers, a better line and a better running game, and there's been no improvement to his stats. He still makes the same mistakes week in and week out. 

 

He doesn't need to look like Mahomes, but he needs to stop performing like guys like Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Mark Sanchez, etc. 

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12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

By no means am I saying Allen has been great reading the defense.  And I wasn’t talking about just this one play and was more talking about overall it’s not always that cut and dry.

 

But you’re also making a lot of assumptions on this play you don’t know are true.  You don’t know that Allen didn’t recognize the blitz.  You don’t know if Allen had an open receiver to throw the ball to.  You don’t know if someone missed their assignment on blocking the safety.

 

More importantly, Allen went to step up into the pocket which would have helped avoid the safety but couldn’t do it because he had an unblocked LB barreling down on him for the sack from the right side.  

 

I am just trying to point out that sacks are a result of more than just a QBs decisions.  And as fans, we do not know what Allen did or didn’t see, if any of the other players executed properly in their assignments, if the receivers did their job and got open, etc.  

 

I am also not naive that Allen has stuff to work on either, including reading the D.  He is still a young and learning QB who just faced the greatest defensive mind in history.

 

For me, Josh’s biggest mistakes yesterday were a result of two things:  Trying to do too much and over confidence in his arm talent.  Receivers were just not getting open often enough against a top defense, and Allen started trying to play playground football throwing off his back foot and stuff to guys scrambling  to find some space.  He just can’t do that, his mechanics go to hell too when he does that

 

Absolutely most important thing Josh needs to learn from this game is that his defense is Elite.  And that means he does not need to force things when it’s not there and just punt and let the D get you the ball back and keep the game close to give you another shot on the next series.

jrober38 has an agenda. He has claimed Allen will be a bust since the draft and will twist any fact or statistic in any way to prove himself right. He was nowhere to be heard the first three games. Now, after a bad day, he is out in full force with his usual post after post, after post, of some variation of Allen sucks.

Edited by billsfan1959
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It is OK to be worried about Josh Allen. Saying you are concerned does not mean you are a hater. It does not mean you are clueless. It does not mean you think he needs to play lights out every single game.

 

Reality check - He has been inconsistent through the majority of his starts. His latest was maybe his worst ever. Ironically his 2nd worst was a year ago today vs GNB.  He has shown flashes of being very good and very bad - which is normal for a young QB especially one from Wyoming. However, I would say his legs have helped him out a ton thus far in his career which the NFL has proven is unsustainable. Allen has never had a game he dominated via throwing the ball. Not a single game completing 70% of his passes, not a single  300 yd game, no QBR >120 games. And I wont waste time comparing to a Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. Look even at guys like Lamar Jackson  who is doing what we want Allen to do. I dont expect it every game....but you have to want more than what your getting. The 4th quarter comebacks are nice but that does not remove the need for solid QB play. Those arund for the Flutie days can tell you that.  

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Honestly, he’s pretty much what I expected him to be.  It’s going to a roller coaster.  Some fans tried to overlook some of the questions about him coming out that are very valid.  Right now, running is too much part of what makes him an effective qb.  He won’t last in this league if he keeps this up. 

 

I did see some nice things in first few games but there is never really any consistency and I’m not sure there will ever be.  Luckily, we have a great defense that never makes him win games and hopefully the highs outweigh the lows.  

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2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Josh took two sacks that pushed us out of FG range twice. Left an extra 6 on board 

True.  I think the game was too big for him yesterday, and he tried to do way too much early.  I wish he'd play in the first quarter like he plays in the fourth quarter, and I think he will as time goes on.

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

It is OK to be worried about Josh Allen. Saying you are concerned does not mean you are a hater. It does not mean you are clueless. It does not mean you think he needs to play lights out every single game.

 

Reality check - He has been inconsistent through the majority of his starts. His latest was maybe his worst ever. Ironically his 2nd worst was a year ago today vs GNB.  He has shown flashes of being very good and very bad - which is normal for a young QB especially one from Wyoming. However, I would say his legs have helped him out a ton thus far in his career which the NFL has proven is unsustainable. Allen has never had a game he dominated via throwing the ball. Not a single game completing 70% of his passes, not a single  300 yd game, no QBR >120 games. And I wont waste time comparing to a Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. Look even at guys like Lamar Jackson  who is doing what we want Allen to do. I dont expect it every game....but you have to want more than what your getting. The 4th quarter comebacks are nice but that does not remove the need for solid QB play. Those arund for the Flutie days can tell you that.  

Good points.  and Jackson had a tough day yesterday as well.  There's a reason why, with the notable exception of Mahomes, the best QBs in the league are the guys that have had experience.

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7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

It's not whatever. He's been at the bottom of the league all season in QB Rating.

 

This isn't something that just happened yesterday. 

 

Allen is the same offense as he was last season, with better receivers, a better line and a better running game, and there's been no improvement to his stats. He still makes the same mistakes week in and week out. 

 

He doesn't need to look like Mahomes, but he needs to stop performing like guys like Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Mark Sanchez, etc. 

Week 2 he was 12th.  Right behind Tom Brady by 0.1 rating.  He is also the 4th ranked qb in rating in the 4th quarter. Also tied 7th for completions for first downs on 3rd down.

Edited by Scott7975
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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Honestly, he’s pretty much what I expected him to be.  It’s going to a roller coaster.  Some fans tried to overlook some of the questions about him coming out that are very valid.  Right now, running is too much part of what makes him an effective qb.  He won’t last in this league if he keeps this up. 

 

I did see some nice things in first few games but there is never really any consistency and I’m not sure there will ever be.  Luckily, we have a great defense that never makes him win games and hopefully the highs outweigh the lows.  

Except he did have to win the Jets and Bengals games with late 4th quarter drives...

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