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An observation on Josh Allen's three picks


Simon

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10 hours ago, Virgil said:

I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks.  The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man.  In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support.  That's just good, over the top zone coverage.  

 

That's why it's completely on Allen to me.  On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws.  That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it.  

 

I feel like I'm describing this wrong.   

Allen forced it into coverage ALL DAY.   Even McDermott made mention of this in his short presser, he didn't take what the D was giving him. 

 

On chances where the deep pass WAS there, Allen failed miserably. He either overthrew it or underthrew it. 

 

Allen was erratic and off target ALL DAY from the opening bang. 

 

We had TONS of opportunities to put the Pats away.  TONS. 

 

We left a minimum of 21pts on the field against them. 

 

Our second half adjustments were OUTSTANDING. 

 

Execution was terrible at the QB position....period. 

 

That being said, ZAY JONES IS TRASH, and needs to be benched, traded, or released.  He has a lengthy history of droppwd passes and theres no end in sight. 

 

He dropped ANOTHER game winning catch yesterday. 

Edited by TwistofFate
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3 hours ago, CSBill said:

I, like many, think Duke should be called up. But I also wonder why they have not put Andre Roberts on the field since he has returned. He was very productive in pre-season, and I would certainly take him over Zay Jones right now.

 

He was out there, but not targeted.

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I think Zay misread the ball on the sideline.  Defending would be easy because any pass catcher in the air near the sideline can be easily pushed out of bounds.  The elmination of the force out rule makes that the best play and I'd bet that's what players are coached to do in that situation. 

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12 hours ago, Simon said:

Yeah, I remember saying uh-oh as soon as he let the one pick go while he was floating backwards.

I understand the OLine was atrocious and he had guys around his feet all day, but he needs to recognize that all his accuracy issues occur when he's not throwing from a solid platform.

 

 

I'm going to have to go back and watch the game but I didn't think the OL was horrible yesterday. I could be wrong.

 

From what I saw Allen had time to sit back and have a cup of coffee on many occasions. He was pressured when the D sent more than the OL could block but that's on Allen to read it and get rid of the ball. I just don't remember many times where the D rushed 4 and Allen didn't have enough time. 

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12 hours ago, Virgil said:

I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks.  The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man.  In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support.  That's just good, over the top zone coverage.  

 

That's why it's completely on Allen to me.  On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws.  That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it.  

 

I feel like I'm describing this wrong.   

 

Josh was also looking at Zay on the fumbles but because he ran the route poorly, it led to fumbles. 

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5 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

I'm going to have to go back and watch the game but I didn't think the OL was horrible yesterday. I could be wrong.

 

From what I saw Allen had time to sit back and have a cup of coffee on many occasions. He was pressured when the D sent more than the OL could block but that's on Allen to read it and get rid of the ball. I just don't remember many times where the D rushed 4 and Allen didn't have enough time. 

 

The OL looked good most of the time I think, but it seemed the receivers couldn't get open. Allen had time, but no one to throw it to, or he threw it off target.

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12 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. 

 

I am not saying any of the interceptions were not Josh's fault. But throwing to Zay is not a good strategy. He does not track the ball. He does not fight for the ball. He is not fleet of foot. It's just not a good idea and they do it over and over. 

 

I am not part of the “Zay sucks” tar and pitchforks crowd and feel he can be competent in his own zone.  But the deep ball is just Not That Thing.  He is not fast and does not contest

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3 minutes ago, Freak-O said:

I think Zay is an okay player. I also think an okay player is not good enough. If we had a superstar receiver then an okay one in his shadow might be okay, but we don't. 

 

 I’m all in for let’s upgrade receiver, but the various scraps and geriatric guys we put in the room last year are Not That Thing

12 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

If I remember the passes to Zay that were picks, they were more than 10 yards.  Zay is not an intermediate to long receiver.  He does better with short to intermediate passes.  I don't know why Daboll has Zay running longer routes, he just doesn't do a good job with them.

 

It doesn't help that Josh was not at all accurate with longer passes; he overthrew the receiver by 5 yards on a couple of occasions I recall seeing.

 

Part of the problem with Zay running deep routes is timing.  I expect he’s faster in practice when the DBs aren’t as physical and he can release

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I hope they do activate Duke this week if Barkley starts for Allen while in protocol. He has been practicing with Barkley on the squad and in preseason a lot this year hasn't he? Never be a better time to give Duke a shot to prove it or lose it. Can't be much worse than Zay has ever been.

 

Edited by simpleman
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God, to hear you guys talk you'd think Zay Jones was the sole reason the Bills lost, when he should be down below ten in the list of reasons for the loss. Here's my list:

 

1) Josh Allen's inaccuracy

2) Josh Allen's poor decision making

3) Josh Allen's hero ball

4) Josh Allen's poor ball security

5) Belichick's defensive strategy

6) Bills punt team

7) Lee Smith

8)  Bills o-line

9) McDermott's terrible challenges

10) McDermott's awful clock management

11) Zay Jones not playing defensive back on those two interceptions. 

12) Zay Jones not catching an uncatchable ball in the end zone. 

 

 

I don't have any emotional investment in Zay Jones. I just think this crusade is nuts. 

Edited by Dr. K
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2 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

God, to hear you guys talk you'd think Zay Jones was the sole reason the Bills lost, when he should be down below ten in the list of reasons for the loss. Here's my list:

 

1) Josh Allen's inaccuracy

2) Josh Allen's poor decision making

3) Josh Allen's hero ball

4) Josh Allen's poor ball security

5) Belichick's defensive strategy

6) Bills punt team

7) Lee Smith

? Bills o-line

9) McDermott's terrible challenges

10) McDermott's awful clock management

11) Zay Jones not playing defensive back on those two interceptions. 

 

 

I don't have any emotional investment in Zay Jones. I just think this crusade is nuts. 

 

6 should be 1.

 

You know, since it was the difference in the game.

 

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allen can throw an accurate pass, he just has THE WORST HABITS sometimes.  roll right, attempt a hero pass off balance.  he's done that no joke like 8 times this season, all with bad results (sacked out of FG range, picks, intentional grounding).

 

he was garbage vs green bay last year, i wonder if when things are going good, he faces his childhood heroes and just lets it get to him.  

 

as garbage as he was, i think we win if he didn't get knocked out.  

 

 

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12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

None of the picks were gimmes's.  Great catches.  But questionable decisions by Josh.  

Sure they were questionable decisions, just like every QB in the league seems to make against Bellyache's defense. They throw a ton of misinformation, offer pre-snaps reads for one thing and opposite coverages, they're damn good at it. Buffalo's D does it too. Neither is just a physically dominant Bears type unit.

 

When Allen is staring something down it's because he is not trusting what he sees, and that's exactly what their defense does to QB's. Like a goalie showing five-hole to a shooter and shutting it down. It's an experience issue. Did we not understand that with a raw QB prospect this would happen?

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The Patriots defense reminded me of Belichick's scheme against the Bills in the first Super Bowl. He shut down the pass and dared the Bills to run. When they did, Thurman scorched them, much like Gore did yesterday. But Kelly kept trying to throw into heavy coverage, much like Allen yesterday. The difference is that Kelly was Kelly and Allen is Allen. My point is that Daboll should have recognized that he was in a defensive battle and gone conservative: runs and short throws to the RBs and TEs. Not to take Allen off the hook. But even then you could say it's on Daboll. When he saw Allen was off, he could have done worse than simply run every single down, every one, even at the cost of three and out. 

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12 hours ago, Simon said:

 

He never even left his feet. He just turned around and watched the DB attack the ball.

Good call on his tendency to roll toward what he can see

To be fair Allen overthrew Zay at least once yesterday, one on a deep ball late in the first half. He's done it a few times this year with him and a few other times with others.They both have faults, but if your going to play "hero ball" at QB you need to hit a few those deep bombs when your WR has a couple steps on the defender. Not be 0 of whatever the count is on the year. 

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5 hours ago, MDH said:

 

I'm going to have to go back and watch the game but I didn't think the OL was horrible yesterday. I could be wrong.

 

From what I saw Allen had time to sit back and have a cup of coffee on many occasions. He was pressured when the D sent more than the OL could block but that's on Allen to read it and get rid of the ball. I just don't remember many times where the D rushed 4 and Allen didn't have enough time. 

 

If you do have the stomach for a rewatch, consider that it wasn't just the breakdowns in protection. The biggest problem I had with them was the absurd amount of penalties they were taking, often at the worst times possible. Adding up the accepted, declined or offsetting calls, that single unit may well have drawn 10 flags all by themselves, most of them absolute drive killers or that led indirectly to Allen trying to push the ball down the field when they were behind schedule on down/distance.

Not absolving Josh of his foolishness but between the OLine and Zay, that young QB spent much of his day working uphill.

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