billsfan1959 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said: To put it in perspective, there was a jet sweep to McKenzie, but since Allen patted the ball forward to him, instead of handing it to him, it counted as a pass. Take away those 50 yards and Allen had 169 yards passing. Granted, Josh did a good job of taking what the D gave him, didnt try to force besting the Titans Titans secondary. Although there was ANOTHER brutal INT that did lead to points and put us in a tough spot. Which has been routine minus the Giants game. Something that needs to be cleaned up drastically. See, this is what most of us are talking about. The gameplan against a good defense was to go with the short passing game. There was not one attempt over 20 yds in the entire game. Allen did what he was asked to do. He completed over 70 % of his passes and moved the ball - scoring two touchdowns against a team that is 4th in points against.. He had one mistake, that, if you watch the play, was clearly as much on Yeldon as on Allen. Yet, your interpretation of it is negative. #agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, teef said: doing this can be criticized. many qbs have plays lilke this that add to their final numbers. i think this is exactly it as well. he's done better so far this year. that was my goal for him. is there room for improvement? there sure is, but the improvement is visible. Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: To put it in perspective, there was a jet sweep to McKenzie, but since Allen patted the ball forward to him, instead of handing it to him, it counted as a pass. Take away those 50 yards and Allen had 169 yards passing. Granted, Josh did a good job of taking what the D gave him, didnt try to force besting the Titans Titans secondary. Although there was ANOTHER brutal INT that did lead to points and put us in a tough spot. Which has been routine minus the Giants game. Something that needs to be cleaned up drastically. I love that some folks get defensive about their positions and then do the "yeah but if you take away this one big play" nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, billsfan1959 said: See, this is what most of us are talking about. The gameplan against a good defense was to go with the short passing game. There was not one attempt over 20 yds in the entire game. Allen did what he was asked to do. He completed over 70 % of his passes and moved the ball - scoring two touchdowns against a team that is 4th in points against.. He had one mistake, that, if you watch the play, was clearly as much on Yeldon as on Allen. Yet, your interpretation of it is negative. #agenda Yes, ignore where I literally said that on the bottom half of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, teef said: doing this can be criticized. many qbs have plays lilke this that add to their final numbers. It's essentially like a screen pass....which is ran all the time in the NFL by every team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I love that some folks get defensive about their positions and then do the "yeah but if you take away this one big play" nonsense. A person didnt watch the game, I pointed out that Allen had 169 yards through the air, with one play having been a jet sweep. I also pointed out Allen took what the defense gave him, but that part of the post doesnt count? Moreover, I am not the least bit defensive. I dont know a single person on this message board personally. If I was taking any of this to heart, I'd have bigger issues in life. Edited October 9, 2019 by BillsFan17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said: A person didnt watch the game, I pointed out that Allen had 169 yards through the air, with one play having been a jet sweep. I also pointed out Allen took what the defense gave him, but that part of the post doesnt count? What was the purpose of calling out the McKenzie play? Honestly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: It's essentially like a screen pass....which is ran all the time in the NFL by every team. exactly. it was the right call for the right time. it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrider Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: Heaven knows he can't have struggles and still contribute in big ways. So, yeah, let's discount the fact that he led the team on touchdown drives in the fourth quarter, when his team needed them in 3 of the 5 games this year, because he may have been involved in some turnovers that led to points for the other team or ended scoring chances for his team. Nonsensical. Until Allen has a 450 yards and 4 TD's in a losing game, he will never be considered a good quarterback! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, thebandit27 said: What was the purpose of calling out the McKenzie play? Honestly. My post literally lays out exactly why I did. Read it again, a poster said they didnt watch the game. I made an observation that Allen only had 169 yards if you remove that sweep to McKenzie, but that he did take what the defense was giving him a d didnt try to beat the titans secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: A person didnt watch the game, I pointed out that Allen had 169 yards through the air, with one play having been a jet sweep. I also pointed out Allen took what the defense gave him, but that part of the post doesnt count? No, you were cherry picking a play to show that Allen wasn't that productive if you eliminate that play. Do you subtract all the YAC on all other completions as well? At least have the intellectual honesty to admit what you are doing. Edited October 9, 2019 by billsfan1959 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, teef said: exactly. it was the right call for the right time. it counts. No one said it didnt count. The context of why it was brought up appears to be lost on those that want to band together. 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: No, you were cherry picking a play to show that Allen wasn't that productive if you eliminate that play. Do you subtract all the YAC? At least have the intellectual honesty to admit what you are doing. Nailed it! Nothing to do with the dichotomy of hand position for Allen that would effect his bottom stat line. But so far today, I'm a drunk, illiterate who has intellectual honesty, and it's not even 10am Edited October 9, 2019 by BillsFan17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: My post literally lays out exactly why I did. Read it again, a poster said they didnt watch the game. I made an observation that Allen only had 169 yards if you remove that sweep to McKenzie, but that he did take what the defense was giving him a d didnt try to beat the titans secondary. So the implication is that you're just trying to add some context for the poor dude that didn't see the game? Well, call me suspicious, but I find it very interesting that you chose to hone in on the biggest play of the game and make sure to note that it shouldn't reflect positively on Allen. No mention of the fact that 6 of his 9 incompletions on the day were drops or throwaways. That's a pretty unbalanced review if in fact one cared about painting the picture of his performance. Evaluate with no agenda. You'll earn more credibility 5 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, thebandit27 said: So the implication is that you're just trying to add some context for the poor dude that didn't see the game? Well, call me suspicious, but I find it very interesting that you chose to hone in on the biggest play of the game and make sure to note that it shouldn't reflect positively on Allen. No mention of the fact that 6 of his 9 incompletions on the day were drops or throwaways. That's a pretty unbalanced review if in fact one cared about painting the picture of his performance. Evaluate with no agenda. You'll earn more credibility Credibility amongst who? Folks on the internet? If you genuinely worry about credibility on a message board that says more about you than it does me. Secondly, it was an important element to point out Allen's yards were lower than we would have liked if you removed the sweep play, BUT THEN FOLLOWED THAT UP WITH HE TOOK WHAT THE DEFENSE GAVE HIM AND DIDN'T TRY TO BEAT THE TITANS SECONDARY. So, if you choose not to be on the attack, and realize I was pointing out Allen wasnt dominant, but did take what the defense was giving him. If you want to interpret that as me having an agenda, by all mean, have a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: As I've been saying for months, Allen has 3 clear areas of his game that need to improve before he will be able to carry an offense: 1) play recognition post-snap 2) patience in the pocket 3) stop trying to do too much and take what the defense gives him He's made clear and obvious strides in 1 & 2, and 3 still needs some work. If you aren't encouraged by that, considering where he's come from in the last 18 months, then I would suggest that your expectations are more or less unreasonable I would add to that: 1) His decision making outside of the pocket when the play breaks down. You essentially alluded to that on your third point. You take away these interceptions that he's thrown when he's made some bad decisions and we are talking about a much higher QB rating and very possibly a 5-0 record with a couple other games not being such nail biters. 2) You said patience in the pocket. I sort of see it that way, I view it slightly more as that the game still needs to slow down for him a little more. There have been times where he is looking straight at a open receiver and he decides to not hit the guy with a pass. I think that is a mental processing aspect and I believe he will improve as he gets more games under his belt. 3) Yes, his pre snap reads are getting better but still need work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Credibility amongst who? Folks on the internet? If you genuinely worry about credibility on a message board that says more about you than it does me. Secondly, it was an important element to point out Allen's yards were lower than we would have liked if you removed the sweep play, BUT THEN FOLLOWED THAT UP WITH HE TOOK WHAT THE DEFENSE GAVE HIM AND DIDN'T TRY TO BEAT THE TITANS SECONDARY. So, if you choose not to be on the attack, and realize I was pointing out Allen wasnt dominant, but did take what the defense was giving him. If you want to interpret that as me having an agenda, by all mean, have a day. Well, you seem to be bothered by your opinion being criticized, so I figured I'd offer a suggestion. But yes, when the only context you choose to add is to make sure that the biggest play of the game shouldn't be viewed as a positive for the QB, that smacks of an agenda. It's your right of course, but seems silly to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Take away those 50 yards Lol! There isn't anything else you can say. Watch other NFL offenses. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Lol! There isn't anything else you can say. Watch other NFL offenses. Please. Okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: No one said it didnt count. The context of why it was brought up appears to be lost on those that want to band together. no one is banding against you. you really need to stop with the martyr mentality. for some reason you were trying to take away production to prove a point. i'm not sure why. as mentioned, qbs have plays like that every sunday. it makes them no less a qb. why even bring it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Well, you seem to be bothered by your opinion being criticized, so I figured I'd offer a suggestion. But yes, when the only context you choose to add is to make sure that the biggest play of the game shouldn't be viewed as a positive for the QB, that smacks of an agenda. It's your right of course, but seems silly to me Okay, so if I did have an agenda, and I really just hate Josh Allen, what difference would it make. I'm super skeptical of Allen, have seen since he was drafted. That didnt stop me from getting his jersey, didnt stop me from getting my son his jersey. Doesnt stop me hoping he is the answer. That being said I'm not going to simply ignore his faults. I've acknowledged his improvements, but to me personally, I still see a microcosm of a kid who struggles to read a defense. Both pre and post snap. That, at this juncture in his career, could be worse had the Bills not had one of the best defenses in the league. The turnovers wouldnt be as glossed over, the putting his team behind the eight ball wouldnt be glossed over. The comebacks are awesome, but when read between the lines... you see some of the comebacks are because Allen put us in the position to have to comeback 3 minutes ago, teef said: no one is banding against you. you really need to stop with the martyr mentality. for some reason you were trying to take away production to prove a point. i'm not sure why. as mentioned, qbs have plays like that every sunday. it makes them no less a qb. why even bring it up? Today I'm a drunk, illiterate, with intellectual honesty, and a martyr mentality. Bang up day. Best part is, if the hand positioning was different during that play, he would have had 169 yards passing. Pretty cut and dry, and yet that has drawn more responses... Edited October 9, 2019 by BillsFan17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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