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Josh Allen 10 games in at 60.3%% Completion Percentage

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8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

A lot of QBs are hitting 300 yards because of YAC.  How many times have you watched a football game where dude throws a screen pass and it goes for 10, 20, 30 yards.  How many times have you seen a 5 or 10 yard pass turn into 20 or 30 yards?  Those are the guys getting 300 yards passing.  Not because they are launching rockets all over the field.  Most of the time our receivers catch a ball, I am surprised they go for 5 yards.  Our best guys is Beasley right now that averages less than 4.48 yac.  Top 10 is almost 9 yards.  He ranks like 60 something.

 

Bingo.  I can count on one hand the big YAC plays that Allen has had:  last week the 49 yard screen to Motor (first successful screen of the season - chew on that fact);  The Knox rumble against Cincinnati;  The Beasley big pass play against the Giants;  McKenzie's big gain against TN and Motors 28 yard TD against the eagles.

 

A perfect example of what you're saying happened Monday night.  Danial Jones had 210 yards passing in over 40 attempts but 90 yards came on just 2 passes:  67 yards came on a screen to Barkley thrown behind the LOS and another 23 yards came on one of the best catches made by a WR this season - the one handed grab by Tate of a ball thrown way behind him.

 

Explosive, talented skill players make a big difference to a QB's stat line.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Bingo.  I can count on one hand the big YAC plays that Allen has had:  last week the 49 yard screen to Motor (first successful screen of the season - chew on that fact);  The Knox rumble against Cincinnati;  The Beasley big pass play against the Giants;  McKenzie's big gain against TN and Motors 28 yard TD against the eagles.

 

A perfect example of what you're saying happened Monday night.  Danial Jones had 210 yards passing in over 40 attempts but 90 yards came on just 2 passes:  67 yards came on a screen to Barkley thrown behind the LOS and another 23 yards came on one of the best catches made by a WR this season - the one handed grab by Tate of a ball thrown way behind him.

 

Explosive, talented skill players make a big difference to a QB's stat line.

 

 

 


I actually really like YAC as one of the metrics for how a QB is doing delivery the ball. I don’t think lack of YAC is a good defense for JA, rather an indictment. 
 

Current YAC leaders

1. Rodgers

2. Brady

3. Goff

4. Rivers

5. Mahomes

 

The only players Josh beats are back ups, starters who have missed a bunch of time (ie Brees, Tannehill, etc)

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Just now, Mango said:


I actually really like YAC as one of the metrics for how a QB is doing delivery the ball. I don’t think lack of YAC is a good defense for JA, rather an indictment. 
 

Current YAC leaders

1. Rodgers

2. Brady

3. Goff

4. Rivers

5. Mahomes

 

The only players Josh beats are back ups, starters who have missed a bunch of time (ie Brees, Tannehill, etc)

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  YAC is more influenced by skill player talent, O-line mobility and play design/call then by QB.  Before Motors big screen play the Bills had attempted 16 screen passes gaining a total of 34 yards. 

 

I've seen NOTHING about Allen's ball placement this season that leads me to think it is costing us YAC.  What I see are receivers who don't get a lot of separation; Receivers who don't break a lot of tackles and a team that hasn't been able to execute any type of screen pass on a consistent basis.  This is what drives YAC IMO.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  YAC is more influenced by skill player talent, O-line mobility and play design/call then by QB.  Before Motors big screen play the Bills had attempted 16 screen passes gaining a total of 34 yards. 

 

I've seen NOTHING about Allen's ball placement this season that leads me to think it is costing us YAC.  What I see are receivers who don't get a lot of separation; Receivers who don't break a lot of tackles and a team that hasn't been able to execute any type of screen pass on a consistent basis.  This is what drives YAC IMO.

 

 

YAC has more to do with accuracy and timing then anything else. I'de list them in that order, #1 accuracy, #2 timing, #3 run after catch ability. 

 

 

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On 11/5/2019 at 11:59 PM, JoPar_v2 said:

Out of the ‘18 class, it’s pretty much Allen and Lamar out there winning games so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ not your 2 prototypical 300+ yard passers.

 

Glad I was pretty much dead wrong about Allen coming out Of the draft. This year I just wanted to see the mistakes/turnovers decrease and they have over the past 4 games so I am fresh out of complaints right now.

 

It IS pretty interesting that the two that were dogged the most, currently have the best record.  So goes sports media, I guess...

 

And just caught Greg Cosell's comments on Jackson and his accuracy (spoiler: it's the system), also interesting. :beer: 

 

 

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On 11/6/2019 at 8:44 AM, Mango said:


I actually really like YAC as one of the metrics for how a QB is doing delivery the ball. I don’t think lack of YAC is a good defense for JA, rather an indictment. 
 

Current YAC leaders

1. Rodgers

2. Brady

3. Goff

4. Rivers

5. Mahomes

 

The only players Josh beats are back ups, starters who have missed a bunch of time (ie Brees, Tannehill, etc)

Your argument is incredibly flawed as we have nowhere near the skill talent those teams do 

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On 11/6/2019 at 4:18 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

YAC has more to do with accuracy and timing then anything else. I'de list them in that order, #1 accuracy, #2 timing, #3 run after catch ability. 

 

Ummm... no... you honestly need to reverse that order. :huh:

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4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm... no... you honestly need to reverse that order. :huh:

Nope. Accuracy and timing creates space. I would also say route running is about equal to those two. 

 

Also When have we seen Josh Allen throw a WR open? It's something good QB's always do. Throw to an open space and allow the WR to run to that open open space. 

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4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Nope. Accuracy and timing creates space. I would also say route running is about equal to those two. 

 

Also When have we seen Josh Allen throw a WR open? It's something good QB's always do. Throw to an open space and allow the WR to run to that open open space. 

 

Definitely agree with this.  If the WR doesn't have to adjust to the ball, that's ideal.

 

Josh has done this but just not consistently enough.

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3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Definitely agree with this.  If the WR doesn't have to adjust to the ball, that's ideal.

 

Josh has done this but just not consistently enough.

While I don't disagree, the separation a WR creates has a lot to do with ball placement.  The less separation requires the ball to be placed where only the receiver can catch it which is at times not where you'd put it for maximum YAC.

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24 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

While I don't disagree, the separation a WR creates has a lot to do with ball placement.  The less separation requires the ball to be placed where only the receiver can catch it which is at times not where you'd put it for maximum YAC.

I agreed with this. Seperation is key.

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1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I agreed with this. Seperation is key.

I hate to pimp up a Pat on this board, but Edelman holds clinics on most Sundays on how to create separation.  I couldn't believe the separation he was getting in the SB last year.  Early on in the SB, I was saying Edelman deserved MP if NE won the game.  The routes and separation he was running and creating were amazing.

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5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Nope. Accuracy and timing creates space. I would also say route running is about equal to those two. 

 

Also When have we seen Josh Allen throw a WR open? It's something good QB's always do. Throw to an open space and allow the WR to run to that open open space. 

How many of Edelman’s YAC yards are due to his ability, vs where the ball was placed ?Tyreek Hill ? Let’s be honest, all the things you mentioned can help YAC. Play design can help too.  The biggest influence is the talent of the WR. Otherwise, WR are interchangeable, which my eyes tell me they absolutely are not. 

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4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

How many of Edelman’s YAC yards are due to his ability, vs where the ball was placed ?Tyreek Hill ? Let’s be honest, all the things you mentioned can help YAC. Play design can help too.  The biggest influence is the talent of the WR. Otherwise, WR are interchangeable, which my eyes tell me they absolutely are not. 

Timing to me is really most important. Timing really incorporates both the QB and WR. Brady is almost always going to deliver the football as soon as Edleman is open. That extra half second makes a huge difference in YAC. Yes there are certain players that create YAC on their own but the majority is when you have a good route and ball delivered on time.

 

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5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Nope. Accuracy and timing creates space. I would also say route running is about equal to those two. 

 

Also When have we seen Josh Allen throw a WR open? It's something good QB's always do. Throw to an open space and allow the WR to run to that open open space. 

 

A bit too narrow of an argument as there are a lot more factors and this seems to me to be a tired retread of trying to force a narrative that does not take in all the facts.

 

Allen needs to continue to work on his throws with anticipation and timing, but he has improved a lot in those areas of touch and timing. If you are objectively looking for that.

 

As to other factors, play design and execution for example. There have been more than a few comments by former coaches and players who break down plays where I have heard this or that receiver should have done this to run off a defender and clear space for Beasley, or Smoke...

 

Also, when the folks at the Athletic, or Cover 1 break down plays I often hear Allen put it in the only spot he could to keep X receiver from getting lit up. That route should have been x, or formation kept the safety too close, etc...

 

The consistency of those comments tells me that either play design or execution had a hand in impacting YAC on those plays, but feel free to blame Allen it is the simpler thing to do rather than dig into plays that get snuffed out to see what the Bills really need to work on.

 

When Allen does fail to lead a receiver and it is not a blown route and he does not have a defender in his lap, I am fine saying he threw a bad pass. It happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Nope. Accuracy and timing creates space. I would also say route running is about equal to those two. 

 

Also When have we seen Josh Allen throw a WR open? It's something good QB's always do. Throw to an open space and allow the WR to run to that open open space. 

 

Really?  Sure these things are important for YAC but the plays that have the most potential to ring up HUGE YAC are screen passes.  Before the Redskins game the Bills had attempted 16 screen passes and gained 34 yards.  I challenge you to show me where Allen's throws IN ANY WAY negatively impacted those plays?

 

If you want big YAC then throw a ball behind the LOS like the Giants did and let Barkley take it for 70 YAC.  Or the screen Allen threw to Motor that gained about 45 YAC.

 

I maintain that YAC is most impacted by the skill players ability to make a move and/or break tackles.  Yes, putting the ball in the right place helps but is not the difference maker.

 

And after the individual skill player, the willingness to run screen plays well sets up all kinds of YAC.  And here the O-line is critical because the screen depends on the O-line first selling it and then blocking for it in space.

 

I keep hearing people talk about QB's "throwing the WR open".  Allen does this several times a game when he fits the ball into tight windows and throws before the receiver makes his cut.  And except for rare instances these plays don't generally produce much YAC.  WR's create YAC by FIRST creating separation and then by making a move or breaking a tackle. 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/6/2019 at 4:18 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

YAC has more to do with accuracy and timing then anything else. I'de list them in that order, #1 accuracy, #2 timing, #3 run after catch ability. 

 

 

 

https://theathletic.com/1360812/2019/11/08/bills-notes-stats-and-thoughts-jarvis-landrys-past-ed-olivers-role-and-the-afc-playoff-picture/

Where’s the YAC?

The Bills are 28th in the NFL in yards after the catch. Given the added emphasis on the short passing game, the lack of yards after the catch helps explain Josh Allen’s low yardage totals this season. While Allen continues to struggle with the deep ball — he’s now 0-for-13 on passes that travel 30 yards in the air — he’s been efficient in the short passing game for much of the season. What he needs is a receiver who can create after the catch. Other than Isaiah McKenzie, the Bills don’t have that player on the roster. I’m sure Brandon Beane and his staff have been scouring the country in search of that type of receiver in the 2020 draft. The Bills need more players who can create their own big plays on offense.

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13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

...Also When have we seen Josh Allen throw a WR open? It's something good QB's always do. Throw to an open space and allow the WR to run to that open open space. 

 

This has been a major complaint of every QB we've had for the past decade+.  I imagine the back room discussions go something like this:

 

BILLS SCOUT:  "He has the accuracy, arm strength, & mobility, plus all the intangibles.  He also does a good job throwing his receivers open."

BILLS GM:  "Get out of my office!"

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First time all season Allen's dropped below 60% Completion Percentage. Allen is much improved as a passer this year, but for him to last in this league he needs to hit some of those wide open WRs running deep. And he needs to stop fumbling the damn ball!

 

I don't like Daboll.

 

Actually, I don't particularly care for Frazier or McDermott right now either.

 

3rd or 4th straight week we got run all over.

 

Time to start trusting your Franchise QB. Put him in the shotgun and just let him run his plays from beginning of the game to the end, not just when the team "needs" to move it. Notice that when the Bills need to get yardage and get them in scoring position, he does. Really tells me we have a play calling issue for the rest of the game.

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Once again sub 60% completion percentage. Same as college. Even early in the season I felt his completion percentage was being overrated due to easy degree of discipline that was asked of him 

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