Seven-N-Nine Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 35 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: It can still exist for meathead football coaches with outdated (dinosaur) mentalities. Ah, I know exactly who you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 55 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Josh is on pace for 3,300 yards passing, 500 yards rushing, 60.9% completion percentage, 20 passing TD's, 8 rushing TD's, 14 INT's, 4 fumbles lost, and a 12-4 record. That all being said that's not a bad improvement in year two thus far. 28 TD's (rushing and passing) against 18 turnovers is not an ideal scoring to turnover ratio. However I think that his decision making has been growing week to week. I think his most recent turnovers have been more of a result bad play calling due to designed run calls that make no sense. But his accuracy in the short and intermediate game has been impressive thus far, I also think that his game overall has been massively improving in many respects. I also think that it is fair to say that while the offensive talent around him isn't bad it isn't great either. Josh has no true number one WR and no true consistent TE in the passing game either. One concern with Josh is the deep ball which just hasn't been there as of this season. I think his adjusting his game to be more touch based and accuracy based in the short range has thrown off his deep ball touch. But I hope that as he get more comfortable with his short and intermediate game. TLDR: By the numbers you see a typical "Year Two" QB some improvement, some flaws, and a long way to go but possibly getting there. Was just going to post these stats. I'd guess they go up as well as we need to throw more against some of the teams coming up. In the end he will be close to 4000 total yards with 30 total tds. Ask people if those stats worked at beginning of year and I'd guess 90 percent would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 27 minutes ago, HappyDays said: He also has a passer rating of 82.9 and ANY/A of 5.38, both are big improvements on what he did last year. Still not good enough but if he keeps progressing we're in great shape. If Josh stopped developing his play would be the quality of a Fitz type fringe starter (a guy whose success is heavily dependent on the talent around him) but luckily he just continues to develop in various aspects. If Josh continues to make better decisions and "force" the ball less (as he has the past 3 games) those turnover to TD margins will improve. If Josh can find his touch on the deep ball his overall success and passing numbers should improve. How good he can be is going to come down to how he can develop his deep ball accuracy and fine tune the aspects of his game he has already improved significantly. 19 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: Was just going to post these stats. I'd guess they go up as well as we need to throw more against some of the teams coming up. In the end he will be close to 4000 total yards with 30 total tds. Ask people if those stats worked at beginning of year and I'd guess 90 percent would have been. A lot of the crazier fans were projecting a Mahomes like second season (completely ignoring that Mahomes had multiple elite weapons around him in addition to a good O-line) for Josh. But I think the more reality based fans had a sense that Josh's season was going to look more like Trubisky's season with the Bears last year. Which I think it has from a "stats" perspective. But Josh on film looks to be showcasing more dynamic traits and consistent week to week improvement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: We were on the goal line. Frick. That’s right. My bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: No, your counterpoint was that the goalline offense only exists for meathead coaches. Including the greatest, most forward thinking coach ever. You lost. Now go get your ***** shinebox. Still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 4 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Wow, this is arguing a goal line offensive formation shouldn’t exist. Gonna need more data than common sense. Because common sense suggests handing it off to your RB 2-3 yards back in shotgun turns a 1 yard run into a 4 yard run. 1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said: It can still exist for meathead football coaches with outdated (dinosaur) mentalities. 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: Hey man, Brian Daboll has an econ degree from U of R. Show some respect. the Pats do it all the time btw. Guess BB is just a dinosaur meathead. 4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Still waiting. People don’t forget! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: If Josh stopped developing his play would be the quality of a Fitz type fringe starter (a guy whose success is heavily dependent on the talent around him) but luckily he just continues to develop in various aspects. Yep and he's been improving since week 1 too. In the first 4 games his passer rating was 69.6. In the past 4 games his passer rating was 98.4. That's the difference between worst starting QBs in the league and 14th in the league. It remains to be seen if that progress sticks but it's a clear upward trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 does the word project mean anything to you ...drafted as a 21 year old out of a small school and we want him to be Watson or Mahomes. I think he's going to be great - in time. Yes I think it will take the rest of this year and maybe half on next year. If you watch KC or more importantly Andy Reid quarterbacks they all play great- he's a master play caller and the KC offense as we know is loaded. From McNabb -Vick-Foles even making Kevin Kolb and Detmer look tradeable. With KC its been Alex Smith and now Mahomes- have you watched Matt freaking Moore ? these are not tight window throws. While Mahomes has a tremendous arm and is a great quarterback his throws are to guys high school wide open- the speed and talent and wide out combined with the best TE in the game combined with using just enough of a running game to keep teams off balance. If we think it was plug in Mahomes and he's pulled the chiefs to a higher level your fooling yourself Mahomes took over a team that the 3 previous seasons 12-4, 12-4, 10-6. Obviously a tremendous environment tot start in for a guy who was close to ready after sitting an entire year. Back to Josh - this makes us as Bills fans a bit jealous and wanting a guy like that. Hey we drafted Josh high why isn't he as good etc Just a lot more Raw Josh went to Juco out of high school, then Wyoming. Level of competition and individual coaching lacking puts Josh behind. Coming to a team last year that was a joke on weapons and o-line (what's a word bigger than joke) slows the progress. Also not playing for a master play caller by comparison also slows him This year he has improved but here is another key point McDermott plays complimentary football gets a lead kind of protects it offensively and plays safe this also slows a quarterbacks growth but while WINNING. Classic example is Murray they throw it 45 times a game put up some descent numbers chasing the lead the whole time okay yards while losing a lot. Do they know what they have ? False reading (see Mayfield) In short be patient he's going to be great in timing with this teams being ready to compete for super bowls. Everyone knows he was more of a prospect - shut off WGR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 3 hours ago, billsfan89 said: A lot of the crazier fans were projecting a Mahomes like second season (completely ignoring that Mahomes had multiple elite weapons around him in addition to a good O-line) for Josh. But I think the more reality based fans had a sense that Josh's season was going to look more like Trubisky's season with the Bears last year. Which I think it has from a "stats" perspective. But Josh on film looks to be showcasing more dynamic traits and consistent week to week improvement. Mahomes also has an elite offensive coach calling the shots. I agree with your overall assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Hebert19 said: Was just going to post these stats. I'd guess they go up as well as we need to throw more against some of the teams coming up. In the end he will be close to 4000 total yards with 30 total tds. Ask people if those stats worked at beginning of year and I'd guess 90 percent would have been. you can have nice numbers while playing from behind fooling yourself into he's going to be a good quarterback. Winning you don't get the garbage drive of 50-60 yards at the end of games or multiple 50 yd drives to nowhere which doesnt sound like much but what is 2 -50 yard drives every game you lose during a 6-10 season 10*100 another 100 yards now your 3100 is 4100. Murray has 320 passes Allen has 240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: I agree on the Knox play, clear evidence he was short and the refs spotted it correctly. No way that one is over turned. On the PI yes clear evidence there was PI, but as about 100 others have already stated, pretty much none of the challenged PI calls are being overturned. If I didn't know better I'd suspect collusion on the part of the officials. No he landed on top of the player and extended a full yard past the first down marker. The ref spotted the ball based on where he landed on top of the redskins defender not where knox touched the ground. And i know many PI arent being overturned but i think that was one of the obvious ones that woild have been overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 35 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: So the guy that was better than Mitchell in year 1 is also better than Mitchell in year 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: So the guy that was better than Mitchell in year 1 is also better than Mitchell in year 2. Better? Allen and Trubisky are mirror images of one another. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Better? Allen and Trubisky are mirror images of one another. Yes, better. More yards, TDs, wins, higher passer rating, better rushing stats, etc. Better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 34 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Yes, better. More yards, TDs, wins, higher passer rating, better rushing stats, etc. Better lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Better? Allen and Trubisky are mirror images of one another. Are you implying if two QBs have similar passing yards, TDs, and INTs in year 2 while ignoring anything else, they will end up as similar QBs? If so, do you want to guess who the following two QBs are with similar numbers in their sophomore seasons and whether they end up as similar QBs? player A: 2843 passing yards, 63.9 comp%, 18 TDs, 12 INTs, QB rating: 86.5 player B: 2935 passing yards, 62.1 comp%, 18 TDs, 12 INTs, QB rating: 81.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: lol You may not like it, but it is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, syhuang said: Are you implying if two QBs have similar passing yards, TDs, and INTs in year 2 while ignoring anything else, they will end up as similar QBs? If so, do you want to guess who the following two QBs are with similar numbers in their sophomore seasons and whether they end up as similar QBs? player A: 2843 passing yards, 63.9 comp%, 18 TDs, 12 INTs, QB rating: 86.5 player B: 2935 passing yards, 62.1 comp%, 18 TDs, 12 INTs, QB rating: 81.2 I'm not implying anything about how Allen will end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just now, Wayne Arnold said: I'm not implying anything about how Allen will end up. great, then there is no reason to compare Allen and Trubisky by listing their year 2 stats side-by-side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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