Josh Allen in concussion protocol: Update cleared 10/5

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, John in Jax said:

Has this been definitively determined? I just watched it again on my DVR, and from 4-10 seconds after the hit, he's moving/lifting his legs, and then at about 18 seconds after the hit he rolls over (on his own; wasn't pushed over by staff).

SHHHHH this doesn't support his narrative.

[MR8]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Cripes, how badly did singletary hurt himself?

 

Great playmaker, but this doesn't bode well.

 

 

Hamstrings are tricky, if you don't take care of them properly post injury you can aggravate it really easily and be out longer.  They're smart to be cautious, you don't want it to become a lingering or chronic injury for a kid so young.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Cripes, how badly did singletary hurt himself?

 

Great playmaker, but this doesn't bode well.

 

 

Hanmy.  Pulled up lame in that giants game was it? .  They take time and can  re injure pretty easily until fully healed in my recollection.

 

for a twitchy burst guy like him it’s a problem.

 

hopefully he’s living in the hot tub, massage room ice bath 24/7

Edited October 4, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[VW82]

9 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Has this been definitively determined? I just watched it again on my DVR, and from 4-10 seconds after the hit, he's moving/lifting his legs, and then at about 18 seconds after the hit he rolls over (on his own; wasn't pushed over by staff).

 

It's a great question. I'd also like to know the answer definitively, as I might change my opinion if that's the case. I'm assuming yes. I think he's out cold when his legs are moving or at least had his bell rung hard enough that he isn't fully conscious during that 5-10 second period. I've witnessed people IRL who got knocked out and had similar involuntary movements with their arms/legs so I don't think that by itself proves he was conscious the whole time. It doesn't prove he was unconscious either.

Edited October 4, 2019 by VW82

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Clearly you have again missed the point. I am not a neurologist; I am, however, reasonably capable of having conversations with doctors who have treated patients for concussions as well as performing basic google searches on the subject. Although this does not make me an expert in the field, it allows me to gather enough information to at least ask some good questions, like why would we want to rush our QB back after sustaining what appeared to be a somewhat serious injury before the typical time frame for recovery would suggest?

 

https://brighamhealthhub.org/prevention/when-is-it-safe-to-return-to-play-after-sports-related-injuries

 

 

 

 

I've been around concussions as well....I've played a lot of contact sports.

 

In your google search research, you're diagnosing Allen with a Grade 3 head trauma.  

 

Here's what's funny about Grade 2.  But lets skip Grade 2 and go directly to 3....

 

Grade 2 –  Athletes can return to play once they are asymptomatic and have completed a return-to-play protocol, which is a five-stage gradual increase in activity. We also recommend that athletes with Grade 2 injuries or higher undergo neurocognitive testing after injury. Once post-injury neurocognitive test results are favorable in comparison to the baseline and the symptoms have resolved,  then the athlete can resume play.

6 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Has this been definitively determined? I just watched it again on my DVR, and from 4-10 seconds after the hit, he's moving/lifting his legs, and then at about 18 seconds after the hit he rolls over (on his own; wasn't pushed over by staff).

 

If he's moving like that, he's not unconscious.  His bell was just rang pretty hard.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Do you want to also look at advanced stats, that show the situations of when the turnovers occurred - such as the telling stat that 18 of his 19 career interceptions happened when his team was trailing, and that 15 occurred in the 3rd & 4th quarters?  Or that 10 of 19 INTs were in games where he passed >40 times?  How do these stats show that his INTs were the cause of Bears' deficits in points?

 

I'm the good probability that this offense would perform better with Barkley at this point, because it's obvious that he has a better command of a very complex offensive system than Allen.  Nothing more, nothing less.  

 

Nah.  You keep repeating "it's obvious that he has a better command of a very complex offensive system than Allen" like a mantra, as though persistent repetition will make it true.  Meanwhile, when various other assertions you make get countered with facts, you ignore 'em.

 

That doesn't make you a satisfying person to debate with, and I see no evidence that's gonna change, so I'm outta here.   Barkley is a good guy and I like him as a QB, but he's limited.  He's limited in arm strength; he has no escapeability; he doesn't feel pressure and move around the pocket well.  There's more to "command of a complex offensive system" than reading the D and understanding where you want to go with the ball.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I've been around concussions as well....I've played a lot of contact sports.

 

In your google search research, you're diagnosing Allen with a Grade 3 head trauma.  

 

Here's what's funny about Grade 2.  But lets skip Grade 2 and go directly to 3....

 

Grade 2 –  Athletes can return to play once they are asymptomatic and have completed a return-to-play protocol, which is a five-stage gradual increase in activity. We also recommend that athletes with Grade 2 injuries or higher undergo neurocognitive testing after injury. Once post-injury neurocognitive test results are favorable in comparison to the baseline and the symptoms have resolved,  then the athlete can resume play.

 

I wonder what Antonio Browns neurocognitive  baseline looks like 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I wonder what Antonio Browns neurocognitive  baseline looks like 

Oatmeal

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Hmmm add a RB... assuming Murphy would be the guy? 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I wonder what Antonio Browns neurocognitive  baseline looks like 

 

[row_33]

 

and this.... is the part of your brain....

[BillsFanSD]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I wonder what Antonio Browns neurocognitive  baseline looks like 

 

 

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Nah.  You keep repeating "it's obvious that he has a better command of a very complex offensive system than Allen" like a mantra, as though persistent repetition will make it true.  Meanwhile, when various other assertions you make get countered with facts, you ignore 'em.

 

That doesn't make you a satisfying person to debate with, and I see no evidence that's gonna change, so I'm outta here.

 

I don't know how anyone who watched last Sunday's game did not see that Barkley was in better control of the offense?  You can argue that his arm strength limitation led to the critical short-hop incompletions to Beasley and Zay, but his throws were always to the correct targets, which is not something that you can say about Allen's game at this point.   Allen's best drive occurred when he could still rely on the running game or throw to the underneath RB.   Those plays were gone from Barkley's stints because the RB needed to stay home to block, yet he still found the open receiver.

 

I don't know how much more evidence you need to see that Barkley was in better control of the plays as they were called?

[VW82]

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

In your google search research, you're diagnosing Allen with a Grade 3 head trauma.  

 

If he's moving like that, he's not unconscious.  His bell was just rang pretty hard.

 

Yes, I'm assuming he was grade 3. No, just because his legs were moving post hit that does not mean wasn't unconscious either prior or during.

 

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Grade 2 –  Athletes can return to play once they are asymptomatic and have completed a return-to-play protocol, which is a five-stage gradual increase in activity. We also recommend that athletes with Grade 2 injuries or higher undergo neurocognitive testing after injury. Once post-injury neurocognitive test results are favorable in comparison to the baseline and the symptoms have resolved,  then the athlete can resume play.

 

 

So now we're back to the discussion of whether it's appropriate or smart to play your concussed QB seven days after the incident (regardless of passing tests from NFL paid doctors), and whether there's any additional benefit to waiting until three weeks (i.e. after the bye). I'm suggesting there's likely both a medical benefit, however minor that might be, and developmental benefit by allowing Josh to watch Matt for a week and gain another perspective. Feels like we're going around in circles here.  

Edited October 4, 2019 by VW82

[Dablitzkrieg]

26 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Allen and Singletary will play Sunday.  You can book it.

I don't trust anything a fan of the Mets says....poor judgment ?

[Logic]

12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Hmmm add a RB... assuming Murphy would be the guy? 

Byron Marshall is the running back on the practice squad currently, not Marcus Murphy. I'd guess it would be him.

[Rocket94]

27 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Allen and Singletary will play Sunday.  You can book it.

Nobody signed on to have these two sit. The sun rises and sets with Allen, and Singletary is along for the ride.

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I don't trust anything a fan of the Mets says....poor judgment ?

 

Yankees will win it all this year!

[CLTbills]

9 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I have complete confidence in Matt Barkley. So much so I see a quarterback controversy coming. If he lights up the Titans then what?

 

Stay tuned

Then what? Then Josh comes back when he's healthy.

[RunTheBall]

I don't think this is a complex situation at all.

 

Allen is the starter, Barkley is the backup. If Allen is cleared, he starts. If not, Barkley the backup is in.

 

Simple.

 

No more "learning from the bench". Allen starts unless McBeane decide he's not the franchise guy in which case he won't see the field again. That decision won't be until the end of next year at the earliest unless he has several Peterman level performances in a row and even then they might ride it out. 

 

Personally I think the best thing for Allen after his horrific first half last week is to get right back in there. It's up to Daboll to develop a game plan that both gives us a chance to win the game and at the same time gets Allen out of the gates hot. To me that means start with short easy throws and running the ball. 3 step drops, slants, swing passes, shallow crosses. Beat it in to Allens head that if his reads aren't there quickly in the progression, chuck it away immediately or run and SLIDE every time. The only deep shots I'd do early are play action passes where if the first read isn't there, dump it quickly to a short relief valve. 

 

Get Allen his confidence early and the longer developing plays will come later.