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Duke Williams impressing again...activate him!

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14 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Or maybe IR Kroft which he might be headed to anyway.

I was actually thinking that when I was writing the post. They have been just fine without Kroft so far. Using his space for another wide receiver would probably be fine as long as the current TEs stay healthy.

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7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Duke is an unknown with lots of promise.

 

Zay can't even establish himself as a top 3 WR amidst below average WR corps.

 

He has only caught the ball on 47% of his targets in his entire career. 

 

 

 

Zay is NOT good. He is extremely expendable. 

 

Pretty simple.

 

Cut Zay. Promote Duke. Stop debating.

 

2 hours ago, pop gun said:

Do the Bills become a worse team by ridding themselves of Foster or Jones?

No

 

Are the Bills a better team when Foster or Jones are on the field?

No

 

Would the Bills be a worse team with Williams on the the active roster?

No

 

Would the Bills be a better team with Williams on the field?

That's the unknown, a worse team, No, a better team is a real possibility. 

 

That said it only seems like a win win and a no brainer by getting rid of one or both Jones/Foster and promoting Williams. IMO it is just a matter of time, maybe Beane is holding out hope of a trade or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zay can’t establish himself as a top 3 on an average WR Corp?  Really?  Isn’t he the # 3 right now?

 

Duke didn’t beat him out in Training Camp because of Zays flexibility and ability to play all WR positions.

 

Duke on the other hand has already failed off one team and had to go play CFL ball to get a second chance.

 

Why is there any assumption that Duke could suddenly become a better player than Zay right now?

 

Duke is much more limited in his routes, where he can play, how he helps the team.  

 

The Bills are trying to give him a chance to learn more stuff and once he gets to the point of being ready - why would you think he is replacing Zay.  They like what Zay can do and his ability to fill in anyplace on the field.  

 

Duke will get a chance when when someone gets injured and they need the spot.

 

 

 

Pop Gun - not sure any of that is true - it can be your opinion, but I do not believe we should assume that the Bills do not get worse losing Zay and Foster.  I also do not assume with Josh that Duke makes the team better at all.  Maybe if Barkley is in - as they seemed to work well together, but I am not sure Duke would prove to be much different than Benjamin was with Allen.

Edited by Rochesterfan
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This thread has reached the stupid category,  Zay has secured himself a spot on the roster, it’s that simple, I‘m a Duke fan, but the debate is worthless at this point, something substantial is going to have to happen for the current 53 to change, and it hasn’t happened yet. So let’s give this a rest and talk about the Bengals coming to town, or pot brownies and beer or whatever....

 

Go Bills!!!

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2 hours ago, pop gun said:

Do the Bills become a worse team by ridding themselves of Foster or Jones?

No

 

Are the Bills a better team when Foster or Jones are on the field?

No

 

Would the Bills be a worse team with Williams on the the active roster?

No

 

Would the Bills be a better team with Williams on the field?

That's the unknown, a worse team, No, a better team is a real possibility. 

 

That said it only seems like a win win and a no brainer by getting rid of one or both Jones/Foster and promoting Williams. IMO it is just a matter of time, maybe Beane is holding out hope of a trade or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not sure all of that is proven

 

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I forget how it works. Can a team snipe a player off your practice squad if they’re willing to activate them to their starting 53?

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1 minute ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I forget how it works. Can a team snipe a player off your practice squad if they’re willing to activate them to their starting 53?

 

Yes

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The pot brownies are really good this batch, they go good with a quality lager 🍺, great for watching the Bills Bengals game. I really hope the promote the brownies to the 53 and cut the pretzels 🥨. I for one think the pretzels are to salty, and the brownies will make the team better as a whole. 

 

Go Bills!!!

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2 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Or maybe IR Kroft which he might be headed to anyway.

 

....tough call......as are McKenzie, Foster, or Jones moves......don't know the extent or severity of Kroft's injury....but the TE rooks are certainly promising...........not going to say anything about Zay as he is the "TBD Whipping Boy".......Roberts returning at 100% could make the picture clearer......never imagined a "too much talent conundrum" at OBD......first time IN YEARS IMO.......

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not sure all of that is proven

 

 

...Jesus, talk about the "JUST SAY NO" flashcard overplay....SMH.....

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2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

 

Zay can’t establish himself as a top 3 on an average WR Corp?  Really?  Isn’t he the # 3 right now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same reason it took McBean forever to finally give up on Peterman, they drafted him and are giving him every opportunity to succeed. 

 

Sometimes the player isn't the better player, it's an ego thing for coaches and GMs.

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5 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Same reason it took McBean forever to finally give up on Peterman, they drafted him and are giving him every opportunity to succeed. 

 

Sometimes the player isn't the better player, it's an ego thing for coaches and GMs.

 

But Zay IS contributing. If they were getting nothing from him that would be different. As I have said I don't think long term you can make a living as a WR who just blocks but short term it shows added value on film and so while that is helping lead to wins they are not going to move on from Zay. 

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1 minute ago, pop gun said:

Same reason it took McBean forever to finally give up on Peterman, they drafted him and are giving him every opportunity to succeed. 

 

Sometimes the player isn't the better player, it's an ego thing for coaches and GMs.

 

 

Exactly how long long did it take to give up on Peterman?

 

His Rookie year he played a Half when TT was struggling badly and the team needed a change.

 

His second year in preseason he outplayed a veteran brought in to compete and a rookie.

 

He started played a half and was done - they switched to the rookie and then played the rookie until he was hurt.

 

They worked on signing a veteran and he got 1 more start and was cut.

 

So your definition of forever is 1.5 years and 3 starts.  Good to know.  

 

That is just a terrible argument - you are better of arguing about their commitment to Benjamin which was longer and more games.

 

The fact is this staff has had no issue getting rid of underperforming players and bringing up new guys to fill in - see Dareus, Benjamin, Clay, Ray Ray, etc.  If they thought Duke was better at this point they would bring him up.  I expect them to do it either with an injury or if Foster continues to struggle and they can use Roberts as some speed.

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5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

 

Zay can’t establish himself as a top 3 on an average WR Corp?  Really?  Isn’t he the # 3 right now?

 

Is it warranted?

 

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Duke didn’t beat him out in Training Camp because of Zays flexibility and ability to play all WR positions.

 

Possibly, though it's not like he plays any of them very well.

 

Is the phrase Jack or Pauper of all trades? It'd be nice if he did things WRs are supposed to do At a decent level.

 

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Duke on the other hand has already failed off one team and had to go play CFL ball to get a second chance.

 

Why is there any assumption that Duke could suddenly become a better player than Zay right now?

 

Because while it's merely preseason and practice, he makes contested catches we've NEVER seen Zay make in games, preseason or practice.

 

Zay's propensity to not come down with the football has hurt his team in the past and, if the dropsies keep up, could hurt the team this year.

 

If his primary function is as a blocker, that's something else we saw a lot of promise in for Duke in the preseason, too.

 

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Duke is much more limited in his routes, where he can play, how he helps the team.  

 

Doing one or two things really well is more helpful than being bleh at a bunch of things.

 

But aside from that, why is he limited?

 

His speed?

 

In 2 preseason games he came down with a short and intermediate crosser in the middle of the field and 2 fade routes for TDs and then in practice here in the OP is a go route against Tre, who might've been wearing a red jersey but since he's playing Sunday, wasn't nothing.

 

He can also run block.

 

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The Bills are trying to give him a chance to learn more stuff and once he gets to the point of being ready - why would you think he is replacing Zay.  They like what Zay can do and his ability to fill in anyplace on the field.  

 

Duke will get a chance when when someone gets injured and they need the spot.

 

Truthfully, I'm fine with Duke on the PS as long as we keep him there. I do think we promote him if he's poached. I've been having a little fun with some hyperbole above.

 

But I do think Zay is just bad. Waiting for the improvement. But it's year 3... too long.

 

Give Foster the #3 role. Teach him how to run block. Wonder if part of the motivation to have him play on Special Teams is to give him a taste for hitting.

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55 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Is it warranted?

 

 

Possibly, though it's not like he plays any of them very well.

 

Is the phrase Jack or Pauper of all trades? It'd be nice if he did things WRs are supposed to do At a decent level.

 

 

Because while it's merely preseason and practice, he makes contested catches we've NEVER seen Zay make in games, preseason or practice.

 

Zay's propensity to not come down with the football has hurt his team in the past and, if the dropsies keep up, could hurt the team this year.

 

If his primary function is as a blocker, that's something else we saw a lot of promise in for Duke in the preseason, too.

 

 

Doing one or two things really well is more helpful than being bleh at a bunch of things.

 

But aside from that, why is he limited?

 

His speed?

 

In 2 preseason games he came down with a short and intermediate crosser in the middle of the field and 2 fade routes for TDs and then in practice here in the OP is a go route against Tre, who might've been wearing a red jersey but since he's playing Sunday, wasn't nothing.

 

He can also run block.

 

 

Truthfully, I'm fine with Duke on the PS as long as we keep him there. I do think we promote him if he's poached. I've been having a little fun with some hyperbole above.

 

But I do think Zay is just bad. Waiting for the improvement. But it's year 3... too long.

 

Give Foster the #3 role. Teach him how to run block. Wonder if part of the motivation to have him play on Special Teams is to give him a taste for hitting.

 

 

Is it warranted?  I don’t know, but based upon playing time and the fact that his percentage has gone up - it seems the coaching staff seems to think that it is.

 

Duke did make contested catches against guys that are no longer on rosters.  He got little separation from those guys - is it expected that he will be better here or if he does not get separation does that mean he will not get used?

 

Yes Tre had on a red limited jersey and they said he had a sore neck so he was not doing full coverage at even half speed.  He couldn’t look back and run.

 

Zay is an average lower tier receiver that has caught more passes this year than he has dropped.  You mention replacing him with Foster a guy with 0 catches and the same number of drops as Zay.  Then you say teach him how to block - like every receiver can block.  You already have a guy in Zay that can do it from either the slot on LB/Safety or wide on Corners.  

 

The one chance Foster had to block and he missed and caused a play to fail.  

 

The other thing is Foster and Duke play the same position and can only play outside.  Zay can play all 3 and has done it at a higher level than either Duke or Foster so far.  Is Zay a good receiver- not really, but the staff seem to think he is better than anything else.

 

The final thing is you say “Zay is bad and it’s year 3 too late”, but Duke is in year 4 so why are we expecting improvement from not being in the league.  I don’t think Zay is going to get great, but to be fair right now he is in on 40% of the snaps and targeted on very few throws.  

 

I just think any any kind of logic dictates that Duke and Foster play the same position and neither can fill the roles Zay does.  Foster can’t block and only has speed and limited routes, Duke can block, but has limited speed and a better connection with Barkley.   Therefore - I can see if the bring Duke up cutting Foster, but you are still going to see 30-40 % Zay before seeing much of Duke.

 

 

 

 

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On 9/18/2019 at 4:34 PM, Steptide said:

I still think zay can be really good. If anything, I think foster is more on the bubble 

Nah bro. I think I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on the Zay Jones part there.

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17 hours ago, pop gun said:

Same reason it took McBean forever to finally give up on Peterman, they drafted him and are giving him every opportunity to succeed. 

 

Sometimes the player isn't the better player, it's an ego thing for coaches and GMs.

I definitely sense an inflated ego, but it ain’t the coach’s or the GM’s. Keep it up 

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