StHustle Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Fair. But it's not. His stats as a starter, in addition to his two rings, make him walk in. Eli Manning? The guy who besides the 2 SB runs has never won a playoff game? The guy who won his division only 3 times in 15 seasons? The guy who will finish his career with a losing record? Should I keep going? Look I agreed he is a HOF but its going to take awhile. He is nowhere near a first ballot guy. His defense got him his rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 minute ago, StHustle said: Eli Manning? The guy who besides the 2 SB runs has never won a playoff game? The guy who won his division only 3 times in 15 seasons? The guy who will finish his career with a losing record? Should I keep going? Look I agreed he is a HOF but its going to take awhile. He is nowhere near a first ballot guy. His defense got him his rings. Moon 1 game over .500 Fouts 2 games over .500 Both known for choking in playoffs Both in HOF Yes you know he's a HOF..........none of us are saying he's anywhere near the GOAT conversation either........... but he's simply checked boxes that we know would be unprecedented for voters to ignore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, StHustle said: Eli Manning? The guy who besides the 2 SB runs has never won a playoff game? The guy who won his division only 3 times in 15 seasons? The guy who will finish his career with a losing record? Should I keep going? Look I agreed he is a HOF but its going to take awhile. He is nowhere near a first ballot guy. His defense got him his rings. W-L is a team stat; not a QB stat. Kelly had better defenses, with four tries, and didn't get a ring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StHustle Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: W-L is a team stat; not a QB stat. Kelly had better defenses, with four tries, and didn't get a ring. So would you conclude that Eli Manning was a better QB than Jim Kelly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, StHustle said: So would you conclude that Eli Manning was a better QB than Jim Kelly? Yes. Without a doubt. Manning NEVER had the supporting cast that Kelly did. Manning's stats are better. He has two rings. And he was more durable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 I don't think it makes sense to compare Manning's stats to those of guys like Kelly who played in different eras, where QBs did not routinely rack up 4000 and 5000 yard seasons. Manning had amazing defenses in the years they won it all, so not sure about the supporting casts being that different. He has definitely been more durable, which is interesting, because I almost feel like people would give him more credit if he'd retired a couple years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: So he's 8th all time in TD passes AND outduelled the GOAT to win 2 Super Bowls and you guys think he's not making the HOF?? He's going to finish with probably 80-100 more TD passes than Warren Moon who basically made it as a stat accumulator so I wouldn't bet the house on Eli getting left out of the HOF. In the literal sense he is not a “bonafide HOF QB” as he’s still playing. In a relative sense many of his contemporaries in Roethlisberger, Rivers, and even Matt Ryan will put up similar numbers because of the era they play in. I think his two SB wins and MVPs probably get him in, but I don’t think it’s a slam dunk given his team’s otherwise inauspicious performances and his interceptions, and I think Roesthlisberger gets in first. I also wonder if Peyton’s inevitable first ballot induction doesn’t impact Eli even though it shouldn’t. I think some of the younger generation of QB are likely to force him down the list during this increasingly pass happy era which may affect his chances in the 5 years+ before he’s up for induction. I would be surprised if he’s a first ballot HOFer if he does get in, giving guys like Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Russell Wilson, even Kirk Cousins time to dilute his stats and possibly even pass him in line in the case of Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 hour ago, StHustle said: Not sure if this is satire You made me agree with badolbillz. You're not a good person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: Brees wasn't released. His contract was up & he was franchised. Then right before his contract was up again he got injured and the Chargers let him leave via free agency & New Orleans took a chance he'd fully recover & signed him to a big free agent contract. That's not getting released, it's being allowed to go to free agency, the same way Mitch Morse got to the Bills. KC didn't release Morse & the Chargers didn't release Brees. If you hurry, you can just make it to that hair splitters convention in Poughkeepsie... ? Edited September 14, 2019 by Inigo Montoya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 How did we handle Allen? Determined Peterman was more prepared to be the starter then benched him after 1 half...Allen then starts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: So he's 8th all time in TD passes AND outduelled the GOAT to win 2 Super Bowls and you guys think he's not making the HOF?? He's going to finish with probably 80-100 more TD passes than Warren Moon who basically made it as a stat accumulator so I wouldn't bet the house on Eli getting left out of the HOF. 5 hours ago, Gugny said: Eli is not only a Hall of Famer; he is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Absolutely correct. Eli Manning will be in the HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 I think Eli will be too, but if Andre had to wait, then so does Eli. To some of Eli’s credit, he is part of two of the most iconic catches in football history. The helmet catch and OBJs one hander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 10 hours ago, StHustle said: He went from getting 3rd string reps in preseason....to starting the second half of Game 1 last year. For someone who was clueless about alot of things early on, he looked pretty decent because he is very instinctive. To me, Josh is boom or bust. I don't see him being a middle of the pack type QB. I have to disagree about the ( boom or bust ) part . And of course this is just my opinion, If what we see NOW is his floor then he’s already in middle of the pack , could he regress It’s possible , but if I had to bet I believe the odds are better of him improving then regressing , hope I’m right !!! Go Bills baby 2-0 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StHustle Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, Putin said: I have to disagree about the ( boom or bust ) part . And of course this is just my opinion, If what we see NOW is his floor then he’s already in middle of the pack , could he regress It’s possible , but if I had to bet I believe the odds are better of him improving then regressing , hope I’m right !!! Go Bills baby 2-0 !!! That means nothing based on the sample size. Remember Trent Edwards Floor? And if what we saw now is the best of Josh, he would be considered a BUST for a top 10 pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 8 hours ago, StHustle said: Eli had 2 remarkable post season runs in which his team took down Brady (which IMO gets him in the HOF eventually). Other than that he career as widely been meh. You and @ScottLaw speak of him as if he is a first ballot guy. Its gonna take him many years after eligibility to get in. You'll see. He's absolutely going to be top-bill on the first ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 11 hours ago, DallasMac said: What really helped Allen was getting some veterans in there to show him how to prepare for games. We all saw a totally different player once Barkley and Anderson were added. Did not help that QB coach never coached QBs since college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 11 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: I don't think he has the tools to be a top guy, If there is anything Josh has, it's all of the tools necessary to be a top guy. He's big, athletic, smart, a natural leader, and has a cannon. Which tools are you thinking he lacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 50 minutes ago, eball said: If there is anything Josh has, it's all of the tools necessary to be a top guy. He's big, athletic, smart, a natural leader, and has a cannon. Which tools are you thinking he lacks? All he lacks is the player pedigree of an elite QB and pedigree is not a tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said: All he lacks is the player pedigree of an elite QB and pedigree is not a tool. No, I think we know who the "tool" is in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 12 hours ago, iinii said: Maybe.....Allen wasn’t the first player thrown to the wolves and won’t be the last. Maybe....no two players are the same and no two situations are the same. Gotta churn those opinions in case one of them sticks. Yep. The fact is, the right answer to this question is always “it depends”. Context, context and context! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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