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Shaw66

Pats can keep their rings; I'll take the Bills

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1 hour ago, chris heff said:

My point is that you wrote “Hernandez was released two days after his arrest”, but the ultimate outcome was his death.

 

I don’t understand the connection you’re trying to make here.

 

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

If you have “no idea regarding the circumstances of his suspension “  why comment on condoned drug abuse?

 

The opioid use in the NFL has been reported in good detail by former players. Also reported was the drug testing policy and how players are advised in advance as to when to expect a test. I don’t understand how not knowing the circumstances regarding a single player’s suspension is relevant.

 

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

Are you of the belief that men who pay for sex with women,who have been forced into prostitution through human trafficking, are not culpable?

 

Was it reported that Kraft knew of the human trafficking (or alleged trafficking...don’t remember if it was actually proven) and still paid for their services? 

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9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I’ve been commenting for weeks about first this thing and then that thing that the Bills are doing like the Patriots.  The examples are everywhere:

 

1.  The do-your-job mentality.

2.  The offensive coordinator with the Patriot pedigree

3.  The multiple shifts and offensive formations.

4.  The solid tackling, stifling defense running out of the same sets most of the time.

5.  The attention to detail.

6.  The preparation for every situation.

 

There are plenty of examples. 

 

I was thinking today about being happy to be a Bills fan instead of a Patriots fan.  It’s an odd thought, I know, given the relative levels of success the two franchises have had over the past twenty years.  I’d love to have the Patriots’ success, and as I’ve said often in the past few months, I actually believe that success is coming for the Bills. 

 

In New England, however, that success came out of an amoral culture.   Too much has happened to support any other conclusion:

 

1.  The Patriots had a murderer on their roster.  A flat-out, cold blooded murderer.

2.  The Patriots have a big-time drug addict on their roster.  Now, I know taking drugs isn’t immoral, and I know there are other people with drug issues in the league, but drug addiction often is symptomatic of other behavioral issues. Josh Gordon has those symptoms.

3.  The Patriots have, if you can believe the latest news, a rapist on their roster.  A rapist who, by the way, quit on his first team and quit on his second team.

4.  The Patriots are owned by a billionaire who, for his personal pleasure, encourages sex-trafficking of poor women from other countries.  

5.  The Patriots coach, for all those things I admire about him, is a cheater.   His obsession with winning takes him beyond clearly delineated rules.  He isn’t gentleman enough to behave morally.  He often talks as though he respects the game and it’s past, but if he really respected it, he wouldn’t cheat.  And that’s perfectly okay with his owner who, despite his good press, clearly respects winning more than he respects people. 

 

Any one or two of those things, okay, I get it.  Nobody’s perfect.  The Bill have a guy who’s been in prison.  Richie Incognito had his issues.   Duke Williams wasn’t a choir boy.  The difference is, the Bills acquired those players and have kept them AFTER they’ve demonstrated that they’ve put those issues behind them.  And they’ve actively rid themselves of players, like Incognito, who can’t continue to behave.  The guys the Bills have are model citizens, and they are that way because McDermott and Beane wouldn’t have it any other way.   It’s important to them, and I suspect it’s important to the Pegulas, too, that the players on their team be good people as well as good players.  With the Patriots, the inquiry seems to stop at the good players test.  And it’s not surprising, when the owner has such blatant disregard for the people he uses and abuses for his own personal pleasure. 

 

They can keep their rings.  I’ll take the Bills. 

 

Go BILLS!

 

yes but know is the time for Rings.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I’ve been commenting for weeks about first this thing and then that thing that the Bills are doing like the Patriots.  The examples are everywhere:

 

1.  The do-your-job mentality.

2.  The offensive coordinator with the Patriot pedigree

3.  The multiple shifts and offensive formations.

4.  The solid tackling, stifling defense running out of the same sets most of the time.

5.  The attention to detail.

6.  The preparation for every situation.

 

There are plenty of examples. 

 

I was thinking today about being happy to be a Bills fan instead of a Patriots fan.  It’s an odd thought, I know, given the relative levels of success the two franchises have had over the past twenty years.  I’d love to have the Patriots’ success, and as I’ve said often in the past few months, I actually believe that success is coming for the Bills. 

 

In New England, however, that success came out of an amoral culture.   Too much has happened to support any other conclusion:

 

1.  The Patriots had a murderer on their roster.  A flat-out, cold blooded murderer.

2.  The Patriots have a big-time drug addict on their roster.  Now, I know taking drugs isn’t immoral, and I know there are other people with drug issues in the league, but drug addiction often is symptomatic of other behavioral issues. Josh Gordon has those symptoms.

3.  The Patriots have, if you can believe the latest news, a rapist on their roster.  A rapist who, by the way, quit on his first team and quit on his second team.

4.  The Patriots are owned by a billionaire who, for his personal pleasure, encourages sex-trafficking of poor women from other countries.  

5.  The Patriots coach, for all those things I admire about him, is a cheater.   His obsession with winning takes him beyond clearly delineated rules.  He isn’t gentleman enough to behave morally.  He often talks as though he respects the game and it’s past, but if he really respected it, he wouldn’t cheat.  And that’s perfectly okay with his owner who, despite his good press, clearly respects winning more than he respects people. 

 

Any one or two of those things, okay, I get it.  Nobody’s perfect.  The Bill have a guy who’s been in prison.  Richie Incognito had his issues.   Duke Williams wasn’t a choir boy.  The difference is, the Bills acquired those players and have kept them AFTER they’ve demonstrated that they’ve put those issues behind them.  And they’ve actively rid themselves of players, like Incognito, who can’t continue to behave.  The guys the Bills have are model citizens, and they are that way because McDermott and Beane wouldn’t have it any other way.   It’s important to them, and I suspect it’s important to the Pegulas, too, that the players on their team be good people as well as good players.  With the Patriots, the inquiry seems to stop at the good players test.  And it’s not surprising, when the owner has such blatant disregard for the people he uses and abuses for his own personal pleasure. 

 

They can keep their rings.  I’ll take the Bills. 

 

Go BILLS!

I understand what you're saying and I love our Bill's too!  It will be all that much greater someday if we can win it all with this team and leadership!

 

Go Bills!!!!

1 minute ago, BuffaloButt said:

 

 

Edited by BuffaloButt

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Here's the thing - the NFL is full of scumbags.

 

Patriots might take risks on players with a troubled history (Hernandez, for example), but they can't control what those players do.

 

It's not like the organization is looking for criminals.  I also find it a bit harsh to be calling a guy a rapist two days after he's been accused; not convicted; just accused.  There are many things you could have called him to drive your point home, but rapist is a pretty heavy label.

 

Bottom line for me - I know the league is full of scum.  That's life.  Gimme the damn rings.

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Also, let’s not whitewash the past here, the Bills’ “Big Three” of the 90’s, JK, Bruce and Thurman behaved like  entitled jerks off the field. Everyone who was of age and out on ‘the scene’ at that time has their stories. 

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37 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Also, let’s not whitewash the past here, the Bills’ “Big Three” of the 90’s, JK, Bruce and Thurman behaved like  entitled jerks off the field. Everyone who was of age and out on ‘the scene’ at that time has their stories. 

A lot of coke and alcohol with these guys.....I was around then

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Just now, nucci said:

A lot of coke and alcohol with these guys.....I was around then

 

Oh yeah, they were all professional skiers.

 

Bruce was even suspended in 88 for substance policy. 

 

Even the franchise was quite wary....

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-01-11-sp-260-story.html

 

Bills Reportedly Hired Detectives to Watch and Follow Bruce Smith

JAN. 11, 1989
12 AM
ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. — 
 

The Buffalo Bills hired undercover detectives to follow all-pro defensive end Bruce Smith for 3 weeks last November because of concerns about Smith’s association with a suspected drug dealer, according to a published report.

 

The Buffalo News, citing police sources, reported Tuesday that the team had off-duty detectives follow Smith and watch his home.

 

The detectives were part of the town of Hamburg Police Department, which earlier had conducted its own investigation into Smith’s activities, the newspaper said. The police investigation began after an informant told police the Bill star was involved with a known cocaine dealer.

 

 

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Good post as usual by the OP.

 

With that being said I’d imagine most Bills fans would be defending it if the Bills acted like the Patriots did and won multiple Super Bowls 

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14 hours ago, Nester said:

Well, we had OJ

 

lets call it a tie

In all fairness, he wasn't a murderer until long after he left. 🤷‍♂️

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The Bills seem like they have a likeable team & they are easy to route for.  You will see this as they will get more & more national attention if they keep winning.  Like Jim Rome once said "the NFL is so much better when the Bills are good." 

 

With that being said & I speak for 95% of NFL fans, I wish the Patriots just go away.  They are not likeable & they make the NFL very predictable.  I always think at this day & age it must be boring to be a NE fan.  I have 2 friends that moved to Boston years ago & they always tell me the fans don't even really get into it & they treat the regular season & even the playoffs as kinda like an extended version of preseason.   They don't really get into it until the week of Super Bowl Sunday.  Where is the fun if you can not even enjoy the ride?  That attitude is Incomprehensible to us Bills fans but when expectations are so high it is what it is I guess.  

 

With that being said, I wouldn't wish on any NFL fan base what we have went thru since Kelly retired.  It has been a long 20 years.  Hopefully better days are ahead.  

Edited by Gordio

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I’ll take the rings, just as long as they’re won by not cheating.  Not sure how Pats fans can be proud of a couple of their SBs

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1 hour ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Bruce was even suspended in 88 for substance policy. 

 

Even the franchise was quite wary....

Aw c'mon ! Cut Bruce some slack. He has a chronic illness.....narcolepsy.

 

He even admitted it as the reason for one of his three DUI arrests.

Edited by I am the egg man
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8 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

I don’t understand the connection you’re trying to make here.

 

 

The opioid use in the NFL has been reported in good detail by former players. Also reported was the drug testing policy and how players are advised in advance as to when to expect a test. I don’t understand how not knowing the circumstances regarding a single player’s suspension is relevant.

 

 

Was it reported that Kraft knew of the human trafficking (or alleged trafficking...don’t remember if it was actually proven) and still paid for their services? 

I’m unclear as to your point with your entire post. It appears to be the ends justified the means. Which is at best a slippery slope. History is full of examples of this, I could enumerate if you wish.

 

Unless Robert Kraft is an idiot he would at the very least be aware that prostitution is illegal in the State of Florida. He would have to be incredibly naive to not connect the dots that women from a foreign country prostituting themselves could be sex trafficking. I don’t believe he is either an idiot or naive, I believe he didn’t care. 

 

The sex trafficking at these so called “Asian Massage” business has absolutely been established. I live not far from where Kraft was arrested. My business office for the last twenty years has been in a small complex, some are store fronts. A legitimate massage therapy business was purchased by “Asian Massage “. I had a two year battle with the landlord to evict them, aside from the moral issue, the existence of that business in the complex reflected badly on respectable business like mine. What broke the camel’s back was Kraft’s arrest. I contacted the Sheriffs Department and subsequently met with them. What they shared with me about these types of operations was chilling and disturbing. If you choose to give Kraft a free pass, because he got charges dropped on a technicality that is your business. I on the other hand find his behavior to be not only stupid, but reprehensible.

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The AB situation looks like the accuser is extorting him for money if you actually follow up on the story.

Saying Craft is pro-sex trafficking is just ignorant and you lose stock in your entire argument with a comment like that.

 

FACTS that suck but are still Facts...

1-They have been the best team for longer than any other team in NFL history.

2-They have the greatest head coach in NFL history.

3-Brady has performed better than any NFL quarterback in NFL history, including career longevity, top seasons, and playoffs.

 

I can't stand the Patriots, but have come to accept the above, and take comfort in the fact that their best is behind them.

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12 minutes ago, Jobot said:

The AB situation looks like the accuser is extorting him for money if you actually follow up on the story.

Saying Craft is pro-sex trafficking is just ignorant and you lose stock in your entire argument with a comment like that.

 

FACTS that suck but are still Facts...

1-They have been the best team for longer than any other team in NFL history.

2-They have the greatest head coach in NFL history.

3-Brady has performed better than any NFL quarterback in NFL history, including career longevity, top seasons, and playoffs.

 

I can't stand the Patriots, but have come to accept the above, and take comfort in the fact that their best is behind them.

If she is extorting money, why only sue for $75,000? 

 

I take exception to your personal assault, which you have done by calling me ignorant. I did not question any other posters intelligence or character, calling someone stupid when having a discussion rarely accomplishes anything.

 

i don’t think Kraft is “pro-sex trafficking” and I never wrote that. I believe that Kraft is indifferent.

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4 minutes ago, chris heff said:

If she is extorting money, why only sue for $75,000? 

 

I take exception to your personal assault, which you have done by calling me ignorant. I did not question any other posters intelligence or character, calling someone stupid when having a discussion rarely accomplishes anything.

 

i don’t think Kraft is “pro-sex trafficking” and I never wrote that. I believe that Kraft is indifferent.

She is not sueing for only 75000. Its in excess of 75000. Which allows it to be filed in federal court. Under that it would be in state court

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38 minutes ago, chris heff said:

If she is extorting money, why only sue for $75,000? 

 

I take exception to your personal assault, which you have done by calling me ignorant. I did not question any other posters intelligence or character, calling someone stupid when having a discussion rarely accomplishes anything.

 

i don’t think Kraft is “pro-sex trafficking” and I never wrote that. I believe that Kraft is indifferent.

 

$75k is a jurisdictional requirement for federal court. I believe the report stated 'upwards of $75k.'

You said 'Kraft encourages sex trafficking' which is a baseless claim that you stated to support hating of the PATs

 

Ignorant means lacking facts.  Not meant as an insult. I am ignorant to many things.

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Myself personally, the overall character of a football team is important to me. With that being said, I also believe in 2nd chances.  Having the ability to take what would be NFL bad character players.  Conforming them into the winning team concept is part of why the New England Patriots are head and shoulders above the rest of the league in my humble opinion. Ego's are huge in the NFL. When a big ego player joins the Pats they become a part of something bigger.

 

The Patriot dynasty...

 

(Bills > Pats) 

Edited by Figster

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18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I’ve been commenting for weeks about first this thing and then that thing that the Bills are doing like the Patriots.  The examples are everywhere:

 

1.  The do-your-job mentality.

2.  The offensive coordinator with the Patriot pedigree

3.  The multiple shifts and offensive formations.

4.  The solid tackling, stifling defense running out of the same sets most of the time.

5.  The attention to detail.

6.  The preparation for every situation.

 

There are plenty of examples. 

 

I was thinking today about being happy to be a Bills fan instead of a Patriots fan.  It’s an odd thought, I know, given the relative levels of success the two franchises have had over the past twenty years.  I’d love to have the Patriots’ success, and as I’ve said often in the past few months, I actually believe that success is coming for the Bills. 

 

In New England, however, that success came out of an amoral culture.   Too much has happened to support any other conclusion:

 

1.  The Patriots had a murderer on their roster.  A flat-out, cold blooded murderer.

2.  The Patriots have a big-time drug addict on their roster.  Now, I know taking drugs isn’t immoral, and I know there are other people with drug issues in the league, but drug addiction often is symptomatic of other behavioral issues. Josh Gordon has those symptoms.

3.  The Patriots have, if you can believe the latest news, a rapist on their roster.  A rapist who, by the way, quit on his first team and quit on his second team.

4.  The Patriots are owned by a billionaire who, for his personal pleasure, encourages sex-trafficking of poor women from other countries.  

5.  The Patriots coach, for all those things I admire about him, is a cheater.   His obsession with winning takes him beyond clearly delineated rules.  He isn’t gentleman enough to behave morally.  He often talks as though he respects the game and it’s past, but if he really respected it, he wouldn’t cheat.  And that’s perfectly okay with his owner who, despite his good press, clearly respects winning more than he respects people. 

 

Any one or two of those things, okay, I get it.  Nobody’s perfect.  The Bill have a guy who’s been in prison.  Richie Incognito had his issues.   Duke Williams wasn’t a choir boy.  The difference is, the Bills acquired those players and have kept them AFTER they’ve demonstrated that they’ve put those issues behind them.  And they’ve actively rid themselves of players, like Incognito, who can’t continue to behave.  The guys the Bills have are model citizens, and they are that way because McDermott and Beane wouldn’t have it any other way.   It’s important to them, and I suspect it’s important to the Pegulas, too, that the players on their team be good people as well as good players.  With the Patriots, the inquiry seems to stop at the good players test.  And it’s not surprising, when the owner has such blatant disregard for the people he uses and abuses for his own personal pleasure. 

 

They can keep their rings.  I’ll take the Bills. 

 

Go BILLS!

 

I’ve thought about this and, while I get what you’re saying, I want the rings as of this point. 

 

Now, I say this because there is an inbetween.  You don’t have to sell your soul to win a ring with the darkened hoodie, captain rub and tug, and the kid mouth kisser.  

 

What I do agree with is the overall concept.  I look at this team, how they seem to get along, support each other, diversity hires, and rebuilt the right way, and would love to win it with this team.  

 

That one ring would feel better than their 6 rings as it was done in a way I can respect, support, and hope other NFL teams follow.  

 

If the NFL had to pick the type of team they want to win, I think it’s the current Bills over the Antonio Brown supporting Pats

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1 hour ago, Jobot said:

 

$75k is a jurisdictional requirement for federal court. I believe the report stated 'upwards of $75k.'

You said 'Kraft encourages sex trafficking' which is a baseless claim that you stated to support hating of the PATs

 

Ignorant means lacking facts.  Not meant as an insult. I am ignorant to many things.

Thanks for clearing up the $75k. The article I read just said $75k, I did find that curious. 

 

I don't believe I wrote that, I thing you are  attributing  something written by Bangarang to me.

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