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Josh Allen is a winning quarterback

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12 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Don't forget the two glaringly bad INTs he did throw, which never showed up on the stat sheet.  One was dropped by the DB when it hit him in the hands.  The other was negated by a defensive holding call on the Jets away from the ball.

 

 

And if Cole Beasley catches one that hit in the hands, The Bills win 17-6

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13 hours ago, theRalph said:

No he wasn't! And if people "thought" the 3rd QB taken in the draft...selected at #7 in the first round...was being benched after just a few starts... Why, they weren't really thinking at all, were they. SMH. Your take doesn't warrant so much typing. I'll comply by calling it tupid.

I agree, it was tupid indeed!

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7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I agree.  But Allen has to learn his arm isn’t that good to try and make that throw when scrambling.  DBs are too quick to the ball.

Allen has arguably the best arm talent in the NFL except Mahommes and I'd say they are about equal in terms of what they CAN do. I want my QB to be aggressive and throw it in those tight windows. 

 

You win in this league by being aggressive. The Bills didnt have an aggressive QB for 17 years and they made the playoffs once in that time frame. Josh Allen will get us there multiple times with his aggressiveness 

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8 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Allen has arguably the best arm talent in the NFL except Mahommes and I'd say they are about equal in terms of what they CAN do. I want my QB to be aggressive and throw it in those tight windows. 

 

You win in this league by being aggressive. The Bills didnt have an aggressive QB for 17 years and they made the playoffs once in that time frame. Josh Allen will get us there multiple times with his aggressiveness 

True to a degree.  But I would argue that he should be aggressive more from the pocket on a throw like that, where he can get his feet set and really rifle the ball.  On the play in question he was scrambling and threw awkwardly; he may have a big arm but you won't make that throw consistently into coverage under those circumstances.  And in a tight ball game you don't want to give up points because of it. 

 

I am very high on Allen, just that he needs some refinement still, some balance between hero ball and Edwards ball.  I think he'll figure it out.  And

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24 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

More than the number of games Allen has played.  Go back and look at Manning and Aikman their rookie years. 

 

I'm not sure how old you are; I admit to being an old fart around here.  But that also brings with it an appreciation of history.  It used to be QBs got time to learn before being thrown into the fire.  Now days with the Internet, 24/7 everything, drive through Starbucks, etc. the younger generation thinks everything should be the way they want right now.  That's not the way playing QB in the NFL works, then or now.

 

Old enough to have groaned drafting Ruud and Nelson.

 

The point I'm trying to make, those legendary QBs, their first season worth of games, were absolutely miserable on the stat sheet and in the W-L column. If this forum was watching those QBs develop for the Bills, how bad do you think the "Tank For The Next Guy" would be?

 

Young QB's are constantly missing targets, sailing balls, getting routes jumped, panicking. Even those guys. They're learning. What was revelatory to me on Sunday is how little of that actually happened. What, the throw to Knox and the two almost picks that aren't even on the score sheet? That's what everyone is harping on? Not the 40 other dropbacks? The actual turnovers don't fall into the rookie-itis category.

 

I'm sort of tallying results of plays in buckets of "WTF am I doing?" "WTF is my team doing, I'll do it myself" and "WTF are you gonna do to stop this." Allen is visibly making progress in tallying more plays to the latter buckets. Is this not what everyone hoped to see? By and large, 2019 Bills drives under Allen have been "Hey, this looks like NFL offense. What's going on?" The best take I've seen on this forum, iirc, was @shaw66 talking about how this is no longer an offense which plans to make 10 yards in 3 downs, but an offense which plans around having 3 chances to make 10 yards. It's just... different somehow on offense for the first time since that 1/2 season of Bledsoe.

 

The point I'm making (less to you, more to the hoi polloi) is that the "he has to learn" is happening. Right now. Watch, and also learn.

 

Edited by Ralonzo
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25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

More than the number of games Allen has played.  Go back and look at Manning and Aikman their rookie years. 

 

I'm not sure how old you are; I admit to being an old fart around here.  But that also brings with it an appreciation of history.  It used to be QBs got time to learn before being thrown into the fire.  Now days with the Internet, 24/7 everything, drive through Starbucks, etc. the younger generation thinks everything should be the way they want right now.  That's not the way playing QB in the NFL works, then or now.

I believe that was what the poster you were responding to was saying. Allen has only played 12 games and hasn't had the time "to learn" everything people are clamoring that "he has to learn."

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13 hours ago, fansince88 said:

All 50,000 plus people there? How did you find out from all of them?

Hey, it’s called statistical sampling! Don’t make me break out my old poly-sci textbooks on you :D; I’m sure the poster conducted a sound scientific poll with a 3+- margin of error based on his control group parameters before posting the results! 

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1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Old enough to have groaned drafting Ruud and Nelson.

 

The point I'm trying to make, those legendary QBs, their first season worth of games, were absolutely miserable on the stat sheet and in the W-L column. If this forum was watching those QBs develop for the Bills, how bad do you think the "Tank For The Next Guy" would be?

 

Young QB's are constantly missing targets, sailing balls, getting routes jumped, panicking. Even those guys. They're learning. What was revelatory to me on Sunday is how little of that actually happened. What, the throw to Knox and the two almost picks that aren't even on the score sheet? That's what everyone is harping on? Not the 40 other dropbacks? The actual turnovers don't fall into the rookie-itis category.

 

I'm sort of tallying results of plays in buckets of "WTF am I doing?" "WTF is my team doing, I'll do it myself" and "WTF are you gonna do to stop this." Allen is visibly making progress in tallying more plays to the latter buckets. Is this not what everyone hoped to see? By and large, 2019 Bills drives under Allen have been "Hey, this looks like NFL offense. What's going on?" The best take I've seen on this forum, iirc, was @shaw66 talking about how this is no longer an offense which plans to make 10 yards in 3 downs, but an offense which plans around having 3 chances to make 10 yards. It's just... different somehow on offense for the first time since that 1/2 season of Bledsoe.

 

The point I'm making (less to you, more to the hoi polloi) is that the "he has to learn" is happening. Right now. Watch, and also learn.

 

I totally agree with this.  I guess we differ on the verb used.  By playing he is learning, and we saw it Sunday.  Better at going through progressions, better a taking the short completion, etc.  I watched the first half again yesterday and he threw two inaccurate balls, one where he missed wide to Beasley and the one where he was too long to Zay.  Other than that every throw (excluding throwaways and the second int with the tip) was right there. 

 

But the naysayers seem to have watched a different game.  I cannot believe how many folks here and in the media talk about a terrible first half, how he was inaccurate, etc.  Unlucky maybe, but terrible and inaccurate?  No.  Believe it or not but one person criticized the throw to Sweeney down the right sideline.  That was an absolutely perfect throw.  If people are going to criticize that then it's just silly.

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46 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Allen has arguably the best arm talent in the NFL except Mahommes and I'd say they are about equal in terms of what they CAN do. I want my QB to be aggressive and throw it in those tight windows. 

 

You win in this league by being aggressive. The Bills didnt have an aggressive QB for 17 years and they made the playoffs once in that time frame. Josh Allen will get us there multiple times with his aggressiveness 

I agree and have said it since they drafted him. It is in his DNA: He is always looking to make that big play and has the talent and confidence to make throws most QBs can't. He is also smart enough to know he needs to, at times, settle for the smarter, shorter throw, and, he can do it, as we saw that in the last game against Miami last year and against the Jets. However, even when he takes the "smarter" throw, he is still looking for the big play first and, every now and then, he is going to pull the trigger on that pass everyone says he should never throw. Sometimes it will end in an interception, sometimes it will end up an incompletion, and sometimes it will end in a big play. They will never be able to remove that from him because that is who he is. That is the QB I have been waiting for: Big, strong, tough, aggressive, and a gamer. He is a Buffalo QB through and through.

Edited by billsfan1959

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15 hours ago, The Bills Blog said:

His record is now 6-5 in games he's started and finished; it might be 7-5 had be been able to see the Texans game to completion.

 

Soon to be 7-5 for real and hopefully preserve a winning record for the rest of his career!

and even better if Charles Clay doesn't trip over his own feet against Miami. 

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13 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Don't forget the two glaringly bad INTs he did throw, which never showed up on the stat sheet.  One was dropped by the DB when it hit him in the hands.  The other was negated by a defensive holding call on the Jets away from the ball.

 

 

Does this really need to be brought up in EVERY thread discussing JAs game? As they did on sunday - these things even out as the season rolls along. You could say 'what if' for litterally any play. If you are here posting then odds are you watched the game and know whats up...

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10 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

Does this really need to be brought up in EVERY thread discussing JAs game? As they did on sunday - these things even out as the season rolls along. You could say 'what if' for litterally any play. If you are here posting then odds are you watched the game and know whats up...

He is one of those Allen hating reincarnation posters. Posts the same things over and over until he is killed off by getting banned, or by other posters just not responding anymore, and then is reincarnated under a different screen name...

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53 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I totally agree with this.  I guess we differ on the verb used.  By playing he is learning, and we saw it Sunday.  Better at going through progressions, better a taking the short completion, etc.  I watched the first half again yesterday and he threw two inaccurate balls, one where he missed wide to Beasley and the one where he was too long to Zay.  Other than that every throw (excluding throwaways and the second int with the tip) was right there. 

 

But the naysayers seem to have watched a different game.  I cannot believe how many folks here and in the media talk about a terrible first half, how he was inaccurate, etc.  Unlucky maybe, but terrible and inaccurate?  No.  Believe it or not but one person criticized the throw to Sweeney down the right sideline.  That was an absolutely perfect throw.  If people are going to criticize that then it's just silly.

99% of the media that said he had a bad first half didn’t even watch the game

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Agreed. He's a young core the Bills have been looking for, he is already very talented but he has tons of potential to become great. Tony Romo is among his supporters!

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:46 PM, uticaclub said:

Allen has improved greatly from that game, but let’s not pretend he was good prior to getting injured and the arrival of DA & Barkley. 

If you wish to quote me, feel free, but don't respond to words I did not say. I indicated that he was a high pick that was not getting benched. Nothing about "good". But you saw flashes that game amongst others pre-injury. KD and Daboll are the big influences.

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