Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 3

[GunnerBill]

In what might be the last instalment of this year's series (I don't normally do one after game 4) here once again is Gunner's "Good Night / Bad Night". Who helped and who hurt as the Bills squeaked past the Lions in a sloppy, ugly week 3 pre-season contest.

 

Good Night for...

 

Tremaine Edmunds - Let me start here because Edmunds was comfortably the best Bill on the field last night. I think through two pre-season games he has been solid, had taken a step forward in his fundamentals and his gap discipline which were the elements that let him down in 2018. But last night he did all that and majorly flashed. Every time a Lions playmaker emerged beyond the line of scrimmage carrying the ball either on a run play or in the short passing game it seemed that Edmunds was there in perfect position to deliver the hit and stop the play dead in its tracks. Super impressive. With Edmunds the ability to make the special play has never been in question. If he starts making what we in the UK might call the "meat and potatoes plays" as a matter of course then he is going to be one of the best in the business.  

 

Cody Ford - It has been an up and down summer for the Bills second round pick as he adjusts to life in the NFL. The Bills see him as a tackle and want him to play tackle and he has had some struggles against genuine speed rushers off the edge. But he held his own in pass protection last night and he showed to devastating effect on the Bills two minute drive to end the half the area where he really excels. He is a nasty, powerful, finisher as a run blocker as consecutive blocks sprung first Shady and then Singletary. Barring injury you can pencil Cody Ford in now as you week 1 right tackle.  

 

Duke Williams (and a bit of Isaiah McKenzie) - I have said before that I am a little suspicious as to exactly how much pre-season performances count for receivers under this regime. Williams made it two touchdowns in two weeks and this one was very much of the contested catch, use your body strength variety - although if the Lions first team defense was out there Barkley's floating pass is likely being picked off by the best player in the NFL that the media never talk about - Darius Slay. What was even more significant than the touchdown catch for Williams was the niche he seems to have cut out for himself as the Bills go to run blocking receiver. He was out there a lot with the first team offense early in the game when Daboll went run heavy and that to me gives him a real shot now at this roster. I have been pretty consistent in my view that just being a big guy was not going to be enough for Williams to make the 53 he needed to do something else - whether it was run blocking or playing on special teams. Now that he is there is a chance his value is high enough to stick as a 5th or 6th receiver. While on the subject the misdirection sweep play that McKenzie ran in for the first touchdown is the exact reason that he is also making this roster. Daboll wants that in his playbook.

 

Shaq Lawson (and a bit of Darryl Johnson) - While the first and second units were in the game for both sides the most disruptive defensive lineman on the Bills was Shaq Lawson. One sack two other pressures and just generally in the backfield a bunch. I remain of the view that this guy should start over Jerry Hughes. He has clearly outplayed Trent Murphy in pre-season. I have no issue with them using Murphy as a situational pass rusher in obvious pass situations because he does have a wider range of pass rush techniques than Shaq. But as an overall, rounded defensive end to play early downs? It isn't even close. Shaq should start. While we are on defensive ends..... I had Darryl Johnson in my good week list for week 1 of pre-season. To me he has been close to a certainty for the roster from that point. I expect him to be used as a rotational and situational guy this year but the potential for him to develop into a starter down the road is clearly there. He has made this team.

 

The OAP running backs - So the reports of Shady McCoy's demise were extremely premature. When there are holes he can still explode through them with the best of them. When you are being hit 3 yards into the backfield on every snap as he was last year you could have Jim Brown, Barry Sanders or whoever else you want back there and still be going nowhere. With blocking Shady can still play. And Frank Gore at 36 is such an obvious major upgrade on Mike Tolbert and Chris Ivory who have filled that role the last two years it just bears a mention. Combined age 67 and both going to the Hall of Fame one day. Bills fans should enjoy watching the 1-2 punch of these two guys together this year. Because they won't be around much longer.

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Special Teams - Through two games there seemed to be an improvement in the Bills coverage units. Not so last night when they were beyond awful. Hauschka made his kicks so hopefully he is back to his best but the punting situation is dire. The punting game should not be the adventure that it is when Bojo is out there. His bare numbers last night look good but they don't tell the story. He isn't good enough. Next.

 

Victor Bolden Jnr - Bolden Junior was this year's OTA stand out who disappeared when the going got tough. He was very much in the last chance saloon last night and he fumbled a kick return for a turnover. While we are on the guys in the battle behind Roberts in the return game - McCloud had a nice return or two but he is facing a battle now to make the cut. I expect someone gives him a PS berth for 2019 but I suspect it is not the Buffalo Bills.

 

Robert Foster - Through three pre-season games Robert Foster has one catch for 14 yards. Last night there were no sightings of him on offense but he was out there as a gunner on special teams. That does not mean good things as the battle behind him for a receiver spots hots up. Could it be Foster or Zay Jones who ends up on the outside looking in?

 

Backup corners - Two weeks ago when EJ Gaines was still healthy and UDFA Cam Lewis from Buffalo was putting himself into contention as Taron Johnson's backup in the slot I felt really good about where our corner depth was. Lewis missed last night injured, Gaines has been waived injured and suddenly other than Kevin Johnson our depth there is a worry. Not convinced on Siran Neal as the backup slot corner. Captain Munnerlyn has been a solid NFL servant but he looks done to me. It is a concern.

 

Josh Allen - Before I get the "troll" and "hater" labels please remember that I have had Josh Allen on my good week list in both weeks 1 and 2. I did not think he was good last night. There were extenuating circumstances - I mentioned in in the gameday thread but I think even more than normal for Quarterback Josh Allen needs rhythm. I don't think he is a guy who can stand back there in an offense that goes run, run pass and be expected to make the pass on 3rd down when the whole stadium knows we are passing - at least not at this stage in his career. And I think while upgraded the oline and the receiver we have probably won't win consistently enough in those scenarios either. So if you want Josh to make those plays on 3rd down he has to feel like the ball is in his hands on early downs too. Get him started early on the either way downs and you set him up for success much better. I know the Bills were intentionally working the run game last night - and that is fine - but the consequence of that was a rough outing for Josh. I think the first third down throw to Zay while not totally uncatchable was not where it needed to be - Zay had actually done a nice job getting separation and there was room to drop that in there in stride. The throw to Beasley that was behind him was a bad miss and the INT that was called back for roughing the passer was a terrible decision and a bad throw to boot. Allen made a couple of nice plays in the 2 minute drive and I am not suggesting last night is any cause for panic among Bills fans - but this was a rough outing for the starting Quarterback.

 

 

Right okay.... let's try and avoid this turning into a name calling thread about Josh Allen please...…

 

 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

In what might be the last instalment of this year's series (I don't normally do one after game 4) here once again is Gunner's "Good Night / Bad Night". Who helped and who hurt as the Bills squeaked past the Lions in a sloppy, ugly week 3 pre-season contest.

 

Good Night for...

 

Tremaine Edmunds - Let me start here because Edmunds was comfortably the best Bill on the field last night. I think through two pre-season games he has been solid, had taken a step forward in his fundamentals and his gap discipline which were the elements that let him down in 2018. But last night he did all that and majorly flashed. Every time a Lions playmaker emerged beyond the line of scrimmage carrying the ball either on a run play or in the short passing game it seemed that Edmunds was there in perfect position to deliver the hit and stop the play dead in its tracks. Super impressive. With Edmunds the ability to make the special play has never been in question. If he starts making what we in the UK might call the "meat and potatoes plays" as a matter of course then he is going to be one of the best in the business.  

 

Cody Ford - It has been an up and down summer for the Bills second round pick as he adjusts to life in the NFL. The Bills see him as a tackle and want him to play tackle and he has had some struggles against genuine speed rushers off the edge. But he held his own in pass protection last night and he showed to devastating effect on the Bills two minute drive to end the half the area where he really excels. He is a nasty, powerful, finisher as a run blocker as consecutive blocks sprung first Shady and then Singletary. Barring injury you can pencil Cody Ford in now as you week 1 right tackle.  

 

Duke Williams (and a bit of Isaiah McKenzie) - I have said before that I am a little suspicious as to exactly how much pre-season performances count for receivers under this regime. Williams made it two touchdowns in two weeks and this one was very much of the contested catch, use your body strength variety - although if the Lions first team defense was out there Barkley's floating pass is likely being picked off by the best player in the NFL that the media never talk about - Darius Slay. What was even more significant than the touchdown catch for Williams was the niche he seems to have cut out for himself as the Bills go to run blocking receiver. He was out there a lot with the first team offense early in the game when Daboll went run heavy and that to me gives him a real shot now at this roster. I have been pretty consistent in my view that just being a big guy was not going to be enough for Williams to make the 53 he needed to do something else - whether it was run blocking or playing on special teams. Now that he is there is a chance his value is high enough to stick as a 5th or 6th receiver. While on the subject the misdirection sweep play that McKenzie ran in for the first touchdown is the exact reason that he is also making this roster. Daboll wants that in his playbook.

 

Shaq Lawson (and a bit of Darryl Johnson) - While the first and second units were in the game for both sides the most disruptive defensive lineman on the Bills was Shaq Lawson. One sack two other pressures and just generally in the backfield a bunch. I remain of the view that this guy should start over Jerry Hughes. He has clearly outplayed Trent Murphy in pre-season. I have no issue with them using Murphy as a situational pass rusher in obvious pass situations because he does have a wider range of pass rush techniques than Shaq. But as an overall, rounded defensive end to play early downs? It isn't even close. Shaq should start. While we are on defensive ends..... I had Darryl Johnson in my good week list for week 1 of pre-season. To me he has been close to a certainty for the roster from that point. I expect him to be used as a rotational and situational guy this year but the potential for him to develop into a starter down the road is clearly there. He has made this team.

 

The OAP running backs - So the reports of Shady McCoy's demise were extremely premature. When there are holes he can still explode through them with the best of them. When you are being hit 3 yards into the backfield on every snap as he was last year you could have Jim Brown, Barry Sanders or whoever else you want back there and still be going nowhere. With blocking Shady can still play. And Frank Gore at 36 is such an obvious major upgrade on Mike Tolbert and Chris Ivory who have filled that role the last two years it just bears a mention. Combined age 67 and both going to the Hall of Fame one day. Bills fans should enjoy watching the 1-2 punch of these two guys together this year. Because they won't be around much longer.

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Special Teams - Through two games there seemed to be an improvement in the Bills coverage units. Not so last night when they were beyond awful. Hauschka made his kicks so hopefully he is back to his best but the punting situation is dire. The punting game should not be the adventure that it is when Bojo is out there. His bare numbers last night look good but they don't tell the story. He isn't good enough. Next.

 

Victor Bolden Jnr - Bolden Junior was this year's OTA stand out who disappeared when the going got tough. He was very much in the last chance saloon last night and he fumbled a kick return for a turnover. While we are on the guys in the battle behind Roberts in the return game - McCloud had a nice return or two but he is facing a battle now to make the cut. I expect someone gives him a PS berth for 2019 but I suspect it is not the Buffalo Bills.

 

Robert Foster - Through three pre-season games Robert Foster has one catch for 14 yards. Last night there were no sightings of him on offense but he was out there as a gunner on special teams. That does not mean good things as the battle behind him for a receiver spots hots up. Could it be Foster or Zay Jones who ends up on the outside looking in?

 

Backup corners - Two weeks ago when EJ Gaines was still healthy and UDFA Cam Lewis from Buffalo was putting himself into contention as Taron Johnson's backup in the slot I felt really good about where our corner depth was. Lewis missed last night injured, Gaines has been waived injured and suddenly other than Kevin Johnson our depth there is a worry. Not convinced on Siran Neal as the backup slot corner. Captain Munnerlyn has been a solid NFL servant but he looks done to me. It is a concern.

 

Josh Allen - Before I get the "troll" and "hater" labels please remember that I have had Josh Allen on my good week list in both weeks 1 and 2. I did not think he was good last night. There were extenuating circumstances - I mentioned in in the gameday thread but I think even more than normal for Quarterback Josh Allen needs rhythm. I don't think he is a guy who can stand back there in an offense that goes run, run pass and be expected to make the pass on 3rd down when the whole stadium knows we are passing - at least not at this stage in his career. And I think while upgraded the oline and the receiver we have probably won't win consistently enough in those scenarios either. So if you want Josh to make those plays on 3rd down he has to feel like the ball is in his hands on early downs too. Get him started early on the either way downs and you set him up for success much better. I know the Bills were intentionally working the run game last night - and that is fine - but the consequence of that was a rough outing for Josh. I think the first third down throw to Zay while not totally uncatchable was not where it needed to be - Zay had actually done a nice job getting separation and there was room to drop that in there in stride. The throw to Beasley that was behind him was a bad miss and the INT that was called back for roughing the passer was a terrible decision and a bad throw to boot. Allen made a couple of nice plays in the 2 minute drive and I am not suggesting last night is any cause for panic among Bills fans - but this was a rough outing for the starting Quarterback.

 

 

Right okay.... let's try and avoid this turning into a name calling thread about Josh Allen please...…

 

 

 

Hey rough outings happen...know who else had a really rough outing last night? Baker Mayfield...

 

10 of 26 for 72 yards...it happens, not every game is going to be your best one. The thing i liked most? Even with 2 turnovers inside their own 30, Allen leads them 95 yards in a 2.5 minute drill in about a minute to give us the lead going into halftime.

[thebandit27]

Generally agree.

 

I just don't see how Duke makes the team unless they keep 7 WRs or only 3 TEs (with Kroft on PUP).

 

STs are easily my biggest concern. They're awful in coverage.

 

Re Josh, you can tell that he's still not quite on the same page as some of his WRs. That seems especially evident on the boundary throws.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

Generally agree.

 

I just don't see how Duke makes the team unless they keep 7 WRs or only 3 TEs (with Kroft on PUP).

 

STs are easily my biggest concern. They're awful in coverage.

 

Re Josh, you can tell that he's still not quite on the same page as some of his WRs. That seems especially evident on the boundary throws.

 

If I had to put my mortgage on it I'd go with Williams just missing out but I think he has given himself a shot.

[CSBill]

Special teams coverage was not good last night, but also remember I doubt it is set at what it will be once the season starts. In a pre-season game, it is all back-ups and a lot of auditioning going on. Once the roster is set next week, then we'll see the real line-up.

 

As for punting, we don't have an NFL level punter--sign that guy from NE today!

 

Agree with you on Lawson, he is better than Murphy, and appears to be getting close to Hughes.

 

As for Ford, I still think he is better at guard. But I guess the wildcard here is Nsekhe--any word on why he did not play, is he still hurt?

Edited August 24, 2019 by CSBill

[Chandler#81]

Thank you, GB. Another outstanding recap!

[hemma]

Anyone notice how Boettger did when he replaced Spain?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, hemma said:

Anyone notice how Boettger did when he replaced Spain?

 

Thought he was steady. 

[TAinLack.]

Nice take on Josh Allen, jolly good report Gunner - Thanks as always for the recap.

[hemma]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Thought he was steady. 

 

Good. 

He may currently be the 2nd string 'interior float'. 

[Steptide]

I don't think last night's game is as bad as people think. We were winning the game the whole time the starters for both teams were playing. I think there was definitely some sloppyness with fumbles and penalties for sure, but that 2 min drive was a thing of beauty. Also I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I love how the 1st, 2nd and 3rd string offense rushed to the line after a play that may seem questionable. This is a page out of the Patriots playbook and it's about time the bills do these things 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

I agree with your take on Allen. He is showing that he is a system type qb. I’m not knocking him but he is so much better passing the ball when we go 4 or 5 wide. He’s more decisive and such a better decision maker.

[SoCal Deek]

Best performance of the night wasn’t on your list....Matt Barkley. He looks like a solid veteran out there. Calm, collected, in charge of the huddle and completely comfortable in his role. I can’t recall when the Bills had a backup anywhere close to his skill set. Super impressed!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Great recap. Can’t argue with any of it. Josh had a bad night.  I told my kids I hope they were trying the harder things . 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Meh. Agree on Edmunds and Ford. Disagree on Allen. Would have included singletary for his brilliant effort on the TD run.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Meh. Agree on Edmunds and Ford. Disagree on Allen. Would have included singletary for his brilliant effort on the TD run.

 

Do you honestly hand on heart think Josh was good last night?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Do you honestly hand on heart think Josh was good last night?

 

I honestly hand on heart believe that six passes in a half is too small a sample size to judge good or bad. As bad as his int was, he was great in the two minute drill. He needs volume.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I honestly hand on heart believe that six passes in a half is too small a sample size to judge good or bad. As bad as his int was, he was great in the two minute drill. He needs volume.

 

And I think I said that above. He is a guy who needs to feel the ball in his hands to have a rhythm. But he had 7 pass attempts (6 plus the INT that came back) and three were poor throws. It is legitimate to say that. 

[eball]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Do you honestly hand on heart think Josh was good last night?

 

He started very slowly...was great on the 2:00 drive to end the half.

 

The ill-advised pick was a combination of frustration and also knowing it’s preseason.  I’d like to think (but can’t be sure) he wouldn’t do the same thing in a “real” game.  He was a frustrated young gunslinger and tried to make something happen.  It was U-G-L-Y though...no doubt about it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I think I said that above. He is a guy who needs to feel the ball in his hands to have a rhythm. But he had 7 pass attempts (6 plus the INT that came back) and three were poor throws. It is legitimate to say that. 

 

No I see two as poor. The pass to Zay was not