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Josh Allen starting to prove doubters and haters wrong (BR article)


Logic

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24 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

The former scouts / crusty old NFL guys really liked Allen as a prospect.  Because they are trained to look at what a guy can do, ie his arm strength, size and athleticism.

 

The blog boys and "analytics experts" hated him because his college numbers said he couldn't work.  I'll still contend if Allen were the QB for USC or Oklahoma or UCLA and Baker or Darnold or Rosen were the Wyoming QB, the hot take blog boys would have had very different opinions on him.  

 

I maintain that many folks that knocked Allen during the draft process did so without watching every throw from the kid.  It was brutally obvious watching him that he wasn't the can't-hit-the-broadside-of-a-barn inaccurate QB that some narratives portray him as being.

 

The other thing that many analysts (and fans) don't understand is that the positional value of a QB is soooooooo stinkin' high that any QB that has even a marginal shot to become a franchise QB should be automatically considered a 1st round pick (and an early one at that).  That's why folks can feel free to knock the Daniel Jones or Josh Allen type picks all they want, but the bottom line is this: if you see a guy that you believe has the potential to be your franchise QB for the next decade, you're nuts if you don't do what's necessary to get him.

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I don’t care what his completion % is. 

What a sickening stat so many people nitpick. 

Give me 3rd down % and wins. Doesn’t matter how you get there as long as you convert 3rd downs and win the games. 

Allen is 100x better already than I expected and he does not play like all those scouting reports and draft grade recaps said he did other than missing some easy throws. They portrayed him as EJ Manual 2.0 and that is absolutely not the case. 

He is a leader, tough, and a hard worker. He’s going to succeed. The only question left I have is how good can he be? He’s going to be a top 15 quarterback in this league for a long time if he stays healthy. The completion % is not as important as everyone makes it out to be. Any quarterback who can put the team on his shoulders and takeover and sometimes dominate is going to have success long term 

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43 minutes ago, Logic said:

The following article was written by Mike Tanier, noted Josh Allen hater. And when I say "hater", I mean that the publication he co-authors called Allen "A parody of an NFL quarterback prospect". Anyway, it's a pretty fair article, and points to cautious optimism that Allen may just turn out to be good after all, despite the hot takes of so many "draft experts".

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2850542-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-starting-to-prove-doubters-and-haters-wrong.amp.html

"If Allen develops a decent short game, remains a rushing threat and can hit on the intercontinental ballistic launches just a little more regularly, well, that's a pretty darn good quarterback. And a lot of folks, including me, will be eating some old takes.

Allen may still be a work in progress, but he's no punchline. In fact, he's what the Mayock types told us he would be: the high-upside guy with a lot to learn. The upside is still there, the learning continues, and Allen looks ready to help the Bills win a few games during his on-the-job training.


Maybe the old NFL guard really does know what it's talking about now and then. Imagine that."

 


Based on what? I'm hopeful that the guy can become a competent NFL QB, but that's all it really can be at this point - hope. The preseason has been encouraging, but if it were any other QB the Bills have trotted out it would be "it's preeeeeeeseason".

So far he's been pretty much the same player he was when he was drafted, and he has to prove he can grow significantly from that. That Josh Allen wasn't good enough to win in the Mountain West and we need him to win in the AFC East and in a now loaded conference that looks like it will be extremely tough for the foreseeable future. 

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5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

As bad as he was statistically at times last year, he won at a better than expected rate for his stats...that bodes really well

 

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Well, as you can see from the article, he has proven he is better than some of the doubters initially thought. 

 

So has proven SOMEthing. 

 

The most encouraging thing from Allen last season was the marked improvement as a passer from pre-injury to post-injury.

 

Pre-injury Josh was 75/139 (53.9%), 832 yds (5.98 YPA), 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 61.8 passer rating, sacked 21 times for 167 yds

Post-injury Josh was 94/181 (51.9%), 1242yds (6.86 YPA), 8 TDs, 7 INTs, 72.57 passer rating, sacked 7 times for 46 yds

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:


So far he's been pretty much the same player he was when he was drafted, and he has to prove he can grow significantly from that. That Josh Allen wasn't good enough to win in the Mountain West and we need him to win in the AFC East and in a now loaded conference that looks like it will be extremely tough for the foreseeable future. 

 

I'm sorry, but if that's what you saw in the 6 games after his injury, I'm not sure you watched him at Wyoming.

 

Furthermore, if that's still what you see in his play this preseason, we are watching two different players.

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3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:


Based on what? I'm hopeful that the guy can become a competent NFL QB, but that's all it really can be at this point - hope. The preseason has been encouraging, but if it were any other QB the Bills have trotted out it would be "it's preeeeeeeseason".

So far he's been pretty much the same player he was when he was drafted, and he has to prove he can grow significantly from that. That Josh Allen wasn't good enough to win in the Mountain West and we need him to win in the AFC East and in a now loaded conference that looks like it will be extremely tough for the foreseeable future. 

extremely tough? pretty much the same player?

 

that has the be the dumbest thing I've read here today.

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5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 

The most encouraging thing from Allen last season was the marked improvement as a passer from pre-injury to post-injury.

 

Pre-injury Josh was 75/139 (53.9%), 832 yds (5.98 YPA), 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 61.8 passer rating, sacked 21 times for 167 yds

Post-injury Josh was 94/181 (51.9%), 1242yds (6.86 YPA), 8 TDs, 7 INTs, 72.57 passer rating, sacked 7 times for 46 yds

 

I'm sorry, but if that's what you saw in the 6 games after his injury, I'm not sure you watched him at Wyoming.

 

Furthermore, if that's still what you see in his play this preseason, we are watching two different players.


Josh was better after his injury, but he was also really bad before it. The things he's always had problems with remained problems, but the game did slow down for him a bit.

As to his pre-season performance, I've said over and over again that it's encouraging. I like the changes to his short game, but we've seen a lot of pre-season heroes come through these parts. When the game isn't played at full speed it's hard to say whether or not it's real.

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The ones who were doubting Allen from Day one and/or after his first season, yes, a few may initially start to buy in to Allen if he starts doing better in terms of decisions, TD/INT ratio, and percentage completion, but as soon as they either see  a bad game or two, Allen not showing dramatic improvement in his stats, they may  become Debbie downers, Grumpy Charles’ and Negative Nancy’s again, regarding Allen. Most in the media or very few here will either never admit wrong, or only temporarily admit wrong, as they want to be seen as right, from their initial prognostication, or have other agendas.

 

I remember the days when  qbs were given a 5 year window to become proficient. Nowadays, it’s as if people want to either anoint a qb as either a savior or bust by the end of their first or 1.5 years. That is not realistic, as some players came from worse or different programs, and some need more time to develop. I focus on progress for Allen. Don’t get too up for his ups, and too down for his downs. Although it’s too soon to determine his long term success, from what I see so far Allen seems on the right track. He has a great attitude and work ethic, has many special qb skills, seems to be improving, admits wrongs and wants to fix those, and wants to.to be his own worst critic, but in a constructive way, to be his best.

 

I am glad most Bills fans here seem to understand this about Allen too, as they can see the good through any bad,, and can see past certain earlier less than ideal statistics. The press they can have impatience and want a big story. Unfortunately, this means often jumping to conclusions too soon, being negative or embellishing the facts. Statistics do sometimes lie, whether others want to admit it or not, and especially when sample sizes are smaller. So, it’s great that some media can admit wrongs, possibly change their thinking, but hopefully for some next game or two later not jump back to their pessimistic ways, as things can take time to show consistent success.

 

Think too often people want to look at the not good, the past or the future, instead of enjoying the good moments and progress seen from game to game. For Bills fans on this board, I think most get it at least. Many media and outsiders may want to make a quick story out of us, when nothing has been proven either way, as this is a new season, and it has not even started. 

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53 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Josh has impressed some in the media.  

 

 Unfortunately Winning is the only way to show the negative Nancy’s up.  

 

Why is that unfortunately? 

 

And i think we all want Allen to be great and finally have our guy.  But he seems like some are doing a victory lap already over a 52% passer with a 67 qb rating.  There is a ton left to prove. 

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Just now, BullBuchanan said:


Josh was better after his injury, but he was also really bad before it. The things he's always had problems with remained problems, but the game did slow down for him a bit.

As to his pre-season performance, I've said over and over again that it's encouraging. I like the changes to his short game, but we've seen a lot of pre-season heroes come through these parts. When the game isn't played at full speed it's hard to say whether or not it's real.

 

Fair take; I agree with all of that.

 

The one thing that I'll say regarding the preseason is this: there's a difference between a guy making plays in the preseason who's never shown anything when the real bullets start flying (a la Peterman or EJ) vs a guy that managed to make plays routinely with a horrendous supporting cast that clearly takes it up a notch the following year.

 

Looks to me like Allen is the latter, but you're right that nobody should be convinced at this point.

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2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:


Josh was better after his injury, but he was also really bad before it. The things he's always had problems with remained problems, but the game did slow down for him a bit.

As to his pre-season performance, I've said over and over again that it's encouraging. I like the changes to his short game, but we've seen a lot of pre-season heroes come through these parts. When the game isn't played at full speed it's hard to say whether or not it's real.

I mean I don’t know how people can argue you this.  He struggled to hit 150 yards passing in games.  He needs to be much, much better as a passer.  We upgraded the wrs (still no number 1 though) so it’s time to see improvement, 

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19 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

not hating, I'm a JA supporter, just being patient and not putting the horse before the cart so to speak.

 

This will literally get you nowhere...

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1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Fair take; I agree with all of that.

 

The one thing that I'll say regarding the preseason is this: there's a difference between a guy making plays in the preseason who's never shown anything when the real bullets start flying (a la Peterman or EJ) vs a guy that managed to make plays routinely with a horrendous supporting cast that clearly takes it up a notch the following year.

 

Looks to me like Allen is the latter, but you're right that nobody should be convinced at this point.

EJ has the Carolina comeback (number 2 defense in the nfl that year) and it’s insulting to compare him to Peterman. ?

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