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Ethan in Portland

Is this best secondary the Bills have ever had?

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White is a legit top 5 CB. Hyde and Poyer are both top 20 safeties, not elite but fringe ProBowl players. And the depth for legit CBs is 4 or 5 deep.  Gaines coming off IR late in the season is like getting a Christmas present that was forgotten in the closet.

Winfield/Clements was a great CB duo but the safeties were terrible - Milloy in decline and Coy Wire was awful.

Odomes was very good but the rest of the secondary was average or below. 

Butch Byrd is greatest DB in Bills history. But I really don't know much else about the rest of the guys he played with. I thought the Bills AFL defense's were built around DL and LBs, but I may be wrong.

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I always thought Nate Odomes was terrifically over-rated.

 

I agree the defensive backfield looks very strong now.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

White is a legit top 5 CB. Hyde and Poyer are both top 20 safeties, not elite but fringe ProBowl players. And the depth for legit CBs is 4 or 5 deep.  Gaines coming off IR late in the season is like getting a Christmas present that was forgotten in the closet.

Winfield/Clements was a great CB duo but the safeties were terrible - Milloy in decline and Coy Wire was awful.

Odomes was very good but the rest of the secondary was average or below. 

Butch Byrd is greatest DB in Bills history. But I really don't know much else about the rest of the guys he played with. I thought the Bills AFL defense's were built around DL and LBs, but I may be wrong.

Some perspective.  The 1965 Buffalo Bills entire starting 4 secondary - Booker Edgerson and Butch Byrd CBs and George Saimes and Hagood Clark made the Pro Bowl and Saimes and Byrd were First Team All Pro.  

 

None of the current Bills secondary have ever made the Pro Bowl or been All Pro.  So the easy answer is they are not the best Bills secondary ever...not yet anyways. 

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Just now, freddyjj said:

Some perspective.  The 1965 Buffalo Bills entire starting 4 secondary - Booker Edgerson and Butch Byrd CBs and George Saimes and Hagood Clark made the Pro Bowl and Saimes and Byrd were First Team All Pro.  

 

None of the current Bills secondary have ever made the Pro Bowl or been All Pro.  So the easy answer is they are not the best Bills secondary ever...not yet anyways. 

Making the pro bowl doesn’t mean a dam thing.  First team all pro is different. 

 

I never saw the 65 team play as I was born in 74 so I can’t compare the two. What I do know it, this secondary is elite level

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Winfield and Clements in the backfield together was pretty legit.  

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Just now, NewEra said:

Making the pro bowl doesn’t mean a dam thing.  First team all pro is different. 

 

I never saw the 65 team play as I was born in 74 so I can’t compare the two. What I do know it, this secondary is elite level

Lol.  Every guy in Bills secondary made it that year.  Never happened with any other nfl team in same year since.   So that 65 team was unreal.  

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6 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some perspective.  The 1965 Buffalo Bills entire starting 4 secondary - Booker Edgerson and Butch Byrd CBs and George Saimes and Hagood Clark made the Pro Bowl and Saimes and Byrd were First Team All Pro.  

 

None of the current Bills secondary have ever made the Pro Bowl or been All Pro.  So the easy answer is they are not the best Bills secondary ever...not yet anyways. 

Hyde was named 2nd team all pro and pro bowler in 17. 

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1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Hyde was named 2nd team all pro and pro bowler in 17. 

Thanks for correcting

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8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Making the pro bowl doesn’t mean a dam thing.  First team all pro is different. 

 

 

Word.

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10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Making the pro bowl doesn’t mean a dam thing.  First team all pro is different. 

 

I never saw the 65 team play as I was born in 74 so I can’t compare the two. What I do know it, this secondary is elite level

I slightly disagree here. I think making it onto the initial roster holds merit. It’s the fact that nobody plays in it and 4th or 5th alternates are now going that waters it down. 

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26 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

White is a legit top 5 CB. Hyde and Poyer are both top 20 safeties, not elite but fringe ProBowl players. And the depth for legit CBs is 4 or 5 deep.  Gaines coming off IR late in the season is like getting a Christmas present that was forgotten in the closet.

Winfield/Clements was a great CB duo but the safeties were terrible - Milloy in decline and Coy Wire was awful.

Odomes was very good but the rest of the secondary was average or below. 

Butch Byrd is greatest DB in Bills history. But I really don't know much else about the rest of the guys he played with. I thought the Bills AFL defense's were built around DL and LBs, but I may be wrong.

As a group yes, I'm not 100% sold on Levi as a starter but like our nickel and dime CBs yet I think scheme and coaching also plays a part as McDermott McDermott/Frasier know zone coverage.

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8 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Lol.  Every guy in Bills secondary made it that year.  Never happened with any other nfl team in same year since.   So that 65 team was unreal.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1965_AFL/probowl.htm

 

got me interested in this team.  Is this link wrong?  Looks like it says the Bills has 36 players make the pro bowl in 1965.  Lol

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4 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Lol.  Every guy in Bills secondary made it that year.  Never happened with any other nfl team in same year since.   So that 65 team was unreal.  

32 INTs and surrendered only 16 pts per game.   Bills Defense allowed only 4 rushing TDs all year 

 

4 starting DBs had 21 total INTs alone.  

 

Granted a different era but they were the best secondary I’ve ever seen play 

 

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15 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some perspective.  The 1965 Buffalo Bills entire starting 4 secondary - Booker Edgerson and Butch Byrd CBs and George Saimes and Hagood Clark made the Pro Bowl and Saimes and Byrd were First Team All Pro.  

 

None of the current Bills secondary have ever made the Pro Bowl or been All Pro.  So the easy answer is they are not the best Bills secondary ever...not yet anyways. 

Thanks for the info.  I've honesty never heard of Saimes.  I will look him up.  

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I slightly disagree here. I think making it onto the initial roster holds merit. It’s the fact that nobody plays in it and 4th or 5th alternates are now going that waters it down. 

For sure.  That’s what the stat should be imo. Times voted in NOT as an alternate

 

and even than, it can be tricky.  Ruben Brown was named to the initially team more than a few times where he didn’t deserve it.  He was named based on his past play imo 

Edited by NewEra

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33 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

  Gaines coming off IR late in the season is like getting a Christmas present that was forgotten in the closet.

 

 

A present that is broken in the box, in  the closet.

 

Gone.

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18 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some perspective.  The 1965 Buffalo Bills entire starting 4 secondary - Booker Edgerson and Butch Byrd CBs and George Saimes and Hagood Clark made the Pro Bowl and Saimes and Byrd were First Team All Pro.  

 

None of the current Bills secondary have ever made the Pro Bowl or been All Pro.  So the easy answer is they are not the best Bills secondary ever...not yet anyways. 

Well, there you have it then. 😁

 

Go Bills!!!

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In 1992, the Bills had Kirby Jackson, Nate Odomes who made the Pro Bowl in 1992, Henry Jones, an All Pro SS in 1992, and Mark Kelso.  That was probably the best secondary the Bills had since the merger.   Jackson's suffered a career ending injury after leaving Buffalo for Seattle, so he only played 5 years.

 

I don't care who the Bills other safety was in 2003 but Winfield, Clements, and Milloy were all Pro Bowlers either for the Bills or for other teams, so I'd rate them second best. 

  • Winfield's last season with the Bills was 2003.  He went on to start for 9 more seasons with Minnesota and was a three time Pro Bowler.
  • Clements last season with the Bills was 2006.  He went on to start 4 more seasons for San Francisco and 1 more for Cincinatti.
  • Milloy played for the Bills for 3 seasons, 2003-2005.  He then went on to start for 3 seasons in Atlanta and played 2 more seasons in Seattle, starting 15 games in 2010, so he was hardly "washed up" in 2003.

Since none of the current Bills DBs has been a Pro Bowler or been named a top 100 player, it's hard to make the case that they are "the best secondary ever".  They play well in McDermott's scheme but except for White, they don't seem to be outstanding individuals.  Other Bills squads have had 1 outstanding individual among pretty average players that played well as a unit.

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Making the pro bowl doesn’t mean a dam thing.  First team all pro is different. 

 

I never saw the 65 team play as I was born in 74 so I can’t compare the two. What I do know it, this secondary is elite level

 

Y'know for a team that supposedly has this "elite level" secondary and an "elite" defense, the Bills sure couldn't stop teams from scoring on them in the Red Zone in 2018.  Maybe that's why the rest of the NFL and media ignore them when it comes to handing out honors.

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9 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Wow, there are like 75 names on there.  Makes the argument all 4 made the ProBowl a bit watered down.  

So the AFL had an All-Star game and the fact that there were only 8 teams in that league meant it was easier to make an AllStar team.

 

21 picks by DBs alone in 14 games is impressive by any standard.  Passing game was more downfield then with lower completion percentages and more pickoffs. 

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Jackson's suffered a career ending injury after leaving Buffalo for Seattle, so he only played 5 years.

Good post but believe it was Odomes who went to SEA and never played again. 

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34 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Making the pro bowl doesn’t mean a dam thing.  First team all pro is different. 

 

I never saw the 65 team play as I was born in 74 so I can’t compare the two. What I do know it, this secondary is elite level

Why do people think this? Almost always the guys who make the pro bowl had great years and deserve it. Pro bowl players are usually the best players in the league. Now if you want to start talking about pro bowl alternates I'll entertain that, but people saying pro bowls don't mean anything are just plain wrong.

 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1965_AFL/probowl.htm

 

got me interested in this team.  Is this link wrong?  Looks like it says the Bills has 36 players make the pro bowl in 1965.  Lol

 

In 1965 only, the deal was that the AFL Champions were to play the all-stars from the rest of the 7 AFL teams during the AFL All-Star Game. This technicality aside, I still would argue that the mid-60's Buffalo DB's were the best in franchise history.

 

I like the OP's thoughts here, however. This current group absolutely has the chance to be the best ever in franchise history. White is ready to emerge as a first-team all-pro. Hyde is already borderline. Poyer is already Pro Bowl caliber. I need to see a lot more from Wallace, but he already has shown glimpses of being Pro Bowl caliber. And the other 6-7 guys provide incredible depth, most notably Taron Johnson as the nickel.

Edited by MichaelAbdallah

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41 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some perspective.  The 1965 Buffalo Bills entire starting 4 secondary - Booker Edgerson and Butch Byrd CBs and George Saimes and Hagood Clark made the Pro Bowl and Saimes and Byrd were First Team All Pro.  

 

None of the current Bills secondary have ever made the Pro Bowl or been All Pro.  So the easy answer is they are not the best Bills secondary ever...not yet anyways. 

Bingo.  

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