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Edge Pressure


LSHMEAB

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This year, Hughes and Murphy will bring an adequate amount of pressure and the Bills defense will be very good. Murphy will have at least 10 sacks this year, in my opinion.

The main emphasis of the next offseason, though, should be beefing up the pass rush, and I trust it will be. Luckily for us we can go into that refurbishing of the position with a still-producing and recently extended Jerry Hughes, at the very least. And a big bonus: Darryl Johnson seems like he can really play. He may be a true late round steal.

I expect 2-3 new edge players to be added using premium resources in the offseason.

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Everybody wants Khalil Mack & his 12.5 sacks. That’s because he’s so incredibly rare, especially in this time when 3 step drops are the norm. But with this advent comes new, different ways to defend it with short zone coverage schemes, inside pressure, DLs dropping in coverage and rangy LB’s. If the QB can’t throw it in 2 seconds he’s trapped in a short, collapsing pocket. McD/Frazier rarely blitz as it vacates zones in the set D. Ed Oliver COULD be the best thing this side of Mack or Donald. 

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6 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I think at this point they are relying on Trent Murphy and the rookie Daryl Johnson to generate an edge rush across from Hughes.  We'll see how that plays out.

 

Agreed, then target edge and WR1 in the draft. The best ones are crazy expensive in FA. 

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1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

EXACTLY. Beane is not an idiot nor is McDermott, especially defensively. They're fully aware that this is a potential problem. The price wasn't right for either Clark or Clowney, but there's a reason they were linked to both. Whether you believe the reporting to be true or not is your decision. I tend to think when there's smoke, there's fire.

 

There's been some solid responses as to how this can work without addition personnel. Again, we shall see.

Yes, they have been linked to Clark and Clowney. That tells me that they know the DE position needs to be addressed. Any lights you see on late at night at TBD is probably Beane and McDermott  watching film! Expect to see reinforcements in the future.

Edited by Rocket94
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2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Game planning once that starts happening you will see a lot more pressure. Now it is just individual battles 

I agree with this.  Very few guys get presure one on one consistently.  Its nice to have Mack crashing in from the edge, but very few teams have that.  

 

I may be wrong, but I'm confident the Bills will scheme to generate pressure. 

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Hughes is a top-10 Edge Rusher in the NFL. Sure he's toward the bottom of that list, but led the league in % of snaps he pressured the QB. If we get even league average from the opposite DE spot & from Oliver, Hughes' sack #s will improve.

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6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with this.  Very few guys get presure one on one consistently.  Its nice to have Mack crashing in from the edge, but very few teams have that.  

 

I may be wrong, but I'm confident the Bills will scheme to generate pressure. 

 

I hope you are correct.  Last year they did not exactly do this, though maybe that changes this year.  McD made a comment earlier this offseason to the effect of wanting to see QB pressures.  Frazier has to play a more aggressive defense than what he did last year.

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2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting the sense this team can compete. While I've known we weren't stacked at DE, the concern is more pronounced when you have a team on the precipise of actually doing something!

 

Murphy got a sack and generates some pressure. He's PROBABLY not gonna stay healthy. Shaq does VERY little in terms of getting after the QB. 

 

Hughes is a very, very good pass rusher, but he's not elite. I watched a particular play last night and it dawned on me that the reason for the disparity in sacks/pressures WRT Hughes is that the other side of the pocket is far too frequently clean. 

 

I can see this being a major issue defensively, especially if the offense clicks and we starting getting into games that actually resemble modern NFL football. What's the solution? Is Oliver gonna be good enough as a rookie to make THAT much of an impact on the left side of the line? Star is Star. Do you blitz more? Frazier is allergic to that concept. I tend to think the issue went unnoticed last season because we were awful offensively and didn't really FORCE the opposing QB's to go into down field mode. In these modern games, you've got to be able to make a big play or two defensively and that rarely occurs without pressure. We flirted with Clark and Clowney. That didn't come to fruition. I think the likely outcome is that McDermott has a little sitdown with Frazier to explain that you're allowed to send 5 or 6 guys after the QB. If that doesn't work, the HC may have to take over the reigns defensively once again. I could also see them getting into another 2017 "we're better than we thought" situation and trying to make a midseason acquisition. We shall see.

 

In the grand scheme of things, it's great that the Bills appear to be moving in the right direction. Still, this is a concern.

 

 

 

I think that’s why you see many of us in the Clowney thread saying now is the time to push in the chips and edge rush is a need. I’m not in love with clowney but he’s the closest to available option so he gets some noise around him.

 

if a top 15-20 edge rusher or pass catcher comes loose, I’d have very few pieces held off the table to secure them. He counts in that.

Edited by NoSaint
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30 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I hope you are correct.  Last year they did not exactly do this, though maybe that changes this year.  McD made a comment earlier this offseason to the effect of wanting to see QB pressures.  Frazier has to play a more aggressive defense than what he did last year.

Well, I have no doubt they can get pressure with 5. But I think they will do it with four. Hughes gets his fairly consistently.  Murphy is healthy.  Oliver wI'll flash sometimes.  And Phillips.  I think it will be fine.  Not great, but good enough.  

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I don't think the D line will be a weak link, but among the team's units I think they'll be the least strong.  Even the O line will be better, if preseason is any indication. 

 

The Bills have a very good team in the making.  They don't have a great WR, they don't have a great pass rusher.  That's about it.

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What are ends have done well in the preseason is set the edge, not lose contain, and diagnose screens.  Pressure has been produced in spurts, normally through a line stunt.  McDermott has talked to how he defines pressure as moving the quarterback or negatively influencing the throw; not necessarily a sack or forced scramble.  I think we may walk into the regular season with what we have.  The D-line is doing just enough at this point.

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2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Everybody wants Khalil Mack & his 12.5 sacks. That’s because he’s so incredibly rare, especially in this time when 3 step drops are the norm. But with this advent comes new, different ways to defend it with short zone coverage schemes, inside pressure, DLs dropping in coverage and rangy LB’s. If the QB can’t throw it in 2 seconds he’s trapped in a short, collapsing pocket. McD/Frazier rarely blitz as it vacates zones in the set D. Ed Oliver COULD be the best thing this side of Mack or Donald. 

I like the detail here regarding the actual scheme McDermott employs. My counterpoint would be that Mack is less of a unicorn than Aaron Donald. When you look around the league, the guys getting sacks are still by and large coming off the edge. There's certainly an added emphasis on interior pressure with the 3 step drops; I'll give you that. It would be awesome if Oliver is that unicorn or even close to Donald despite his humble(probably dishonest) opinion.

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1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Yup.

 

Id be interested to know what the Bills cut off is for a trade. 

 

Hopefully not too conservative with future draft picks outside of a 1st rounder.

 

If you believe we have the coach and qb, I’m not sure even a 1 is off the table for most high end guys. 

 

Few points:

 

1) that pick is hopefully late in the round

2) the guy we get at, say, 20 is likely not an immediate game breaker at DE. If we wait til next year to get a guy ready the year after...

3) we have the cap space to buy immediate impact

4) it’s going to cost. Mack is a better player but look at that package. Or amari Cooper. A young impact player that’s proven nfl worthy can be a good deal even with a one 

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28 minutes ago, KauaiBuffaloSports said:

I see the pass rush as our biggest weakness this year too. I’m a little worried that teams are going to double team Oliver in passing situations with the knowledge that star can’t get any penetration. It’s up to our defensive ends to win one on one battles if we plan on rushing 4

 

As long as we’re able to get subs in, there’s no reason Star should be in over Jordan Phillips on pass situations.  

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