Ruben Brown on Mitch Morse: “It Might Be It For Him” & Carwell Gardner is “Severely Suffering”

[Big Blitz]

I don't know.   He said “after you’ve been knocked out for the 3rd or 4th time, you might want toconsider doing something else.

 

I'm not saying Ruben doesn't know what he's talking about.  But this doesn't happen in the case of most concussions.  So does he know Morse actually lost conciousness "3 or 4 times?"

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The reality is that it might be. It feels like he is going to have one more go but if following this comeback he gets one more concussion this year I think he will walk away from the game. I hope it doesn't happen and sad for him and Buffalo if it does but at some point you have to put your long term health first.

The good news is the Buffalo doubled down on OL that can play center

 

Player safety first

[Big Blitz]

And fyi prayers up for Gardner if he's struggling.  

[Phil The Thrill]

3 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

You are heavily biased against him

 

The starters at DT were Dareus and Williams. Rambo and Bryant were backups... can't really predict suspensions and injuries; although they played well in spot duty. Miller was average, but reliable; anytime you can get a 3rd round pick to start as a rookie, is a win. 

 

Waley's roster was his vision... and he plugged every hole; even Quarterback was somewhat addressed with Tyrod.  What was lacking was the culture, the process, also known as the Head Coach.

 

...And the fact that he butted heads with Marone proved he had a vision of how he wanted HIS players used.  Unfortunately, because of the hole at quarterback, his "vision" morphed into building a run heavy team, enter Tyrod and Rex... it might have worked too... but, while his offense managed to be respectable, Rex ruined a great defense, which got both of them fired.

 

 

 

 

 

“The roster was his vision?”  Huh?  As I said, Whaley had NO long term plan.  No vision.  He made reckless moves like overspending on contracts or trades which hurt the team later.

 

Oh yeah, he also whiffed HUGE on the QB Position.

 

Funny how you say I’m biased.  Most journalists - national and local as well as former players have agreed with my argument.  And very few have defended Doug.  Coincidence?

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

FWIW

 

NEW YORK – The NFL announced that reported player concussions in the 2018 regular season were down 29 percent from the previous year. The league said there were 135 documented concussions in that span, down from 190. Including the preseason, concussions fell from 281 to 214, a 23.8 percent decrease.

 

The key word   

documented concussions

There's no doubt a certain percent of players are going to try and hide a concussion, especially mild.  But these days there are standardized protocols, mandatory checks for obvious blows to the head and baseline control testing players much match if it is suspected they sustained a concussion.

 

You make it sound like there's a large amount of players hiding their concussions and I truly doubt that.   All of sports are far more cautious and proactive about it then even 10 years ago.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

I’m fully expecting him to retire from concussions just hoping he can play a couple seasons. However I wouldn’t fault him and be upset if he did. I do like the FeliCano move to center and excited to see him again

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

There's no doubt a certain percent of players are going to try and hide a concussion, especially mild.  But these days there are standardized protocols, mandatory checks for obvious blows to the head and baseline control testing players much match if it is suspected they sustained a concussion.

 

You make it sound like there's a large amount of players hiding their concussions and I truly doubt that.   All of sports are far more cautious and proactive about it then even 10 years ago.

 

While true I swear Tyrod got concussed and continued playing 

“because he was a gamer”. :eyeroll:

[unbillievable]

Whaley's Roster:

37 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

There were weaknesses at several positions. 

Tyrod

McCoy

Watkins-Woods-Goodwin-Harvin

Clay

Glenn-Incognito-Wood-Miller-Mills

(r)Lawson-Dareus-Williams-Hughes

Alexander-Brown-Brown-Spikes

Gilmore-Darby-Robey

Williams-Graham

Carpenter-Schmidt.

 

Outside of Mills, who was a stopgap.... that managed to keep the job several years...find a "glaring" hole in this roster...

There was talent at every level.

 

16 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

“The roster was his vision?”  Huh?  As I said, Whaley had NO long term plan.  No vision.  He made reckless moves like overspending on contracts or trades which hurt the team later.

 

Oh yeah, he also whiffed HUGE on the QB Position.

 

Funny how you say I’m biased.  Most journalists - national and local as well as former players have agreed with my argument.  And very few have defended Doug.  Coincidence?

What exactly do you expect the GM to do? THere entire job is to build a talented roster. Which he did.

The team was supposed to win NOW. It was LOADED. Rex was supposed to win in his 1st season. Of course the GM would want to bring in talent that would help immediately.

 

The one argument is not finding a FRANCHISE QB, but at least found a servicable replacement in Tyrod.

 

There have been very little news about whaley after he left the Bills. You're assuming a lot.

Edited August 16, 2019 by unbillievable

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, unbillievable said:

Whaley's Roster:

Tyrod

McCoy

Watkins-Woods-Goodwin-Harvin

Clay

Glenn-Incognito-Wood-Miller-Mills

(r)Lawson-Dareus-Williams-Hughes

Alexander-Brown-Brown-Spikes

Gilmore-Darby-Robey

Williams-Graham

Carpenter-Schmidt.

 

Outside of Mills, who was a stopgap.... that managed to keep the job several years...find a "glaring" hole in this roster...

There was talent at every level.

 

 

Mills is a weakness, as is John Miller who has not proved to be a good starter in the NFL. 

 

Also you are looking at this list with the benefit of hindsight.  In 2015 Percy Harvin was not really effective as a WR.  Woods and Goodwin were not nearly as productive  in 2015 as they would be in better offenses (with better QB’s)

 

Also the LB core were hardy world beaters.

 

Again....what was his vision?  What was his plan for long term success?  You claimed it was “ground and pound,” but that was Rex’s vision and Doug.  

 

The probably with Doug was a few things:

 

1.  He neglected the QB position for years and put the team in QB purgatory.

 

2. He could bring talent on the team (though he often overspent to do so)

 

3.  He had no clue how to build a winner long term. 

 

Its no surprise Doug Whaley has not gotten another snifffff in the NFL.

 

[unbillievable]

12 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

Mills is a weakness, as is John Miller who has not proved to be a good starter in the NFL. 

 

Also you are looking at this list with the benefit of hindsight.  In 2015 Percy Harvin was not really effective as a WR.  Woods and Goodwin were not nearly as productive  in 2015 as they would be in better offenses (with better QB’s)

 

Also the LB core were hardy world beaters.

 

Again....what was his vision?  What was his plan for long term success?  You claimed it was “ground and pound,” but that was Rex’s vision and Doug.  

 

The probably with Doug was a few things:

 

1.  He neglected the QB position for years and put the team in QB purgatory.

 

2. He could bring talent on the team (though he often overspent to do so)

 

3.  He had no clue how to build a winner long term. 

 

Its no surprise Doug Whaley has not gotten another snifffff in the NFL.

 

 

I don't need to reply anymore. Your Bias is overwhelmingly obvious in this one post.

 

Miller is solid and got a FA contract to start for the Bengals. When everyone sucks, being average is good enough. THe NFL has an OL and QB problem.

Harvin was a star at the time of his signing. He was also VERY productive until his injury.

The fact that Woods and Goodwin have flourished proved that the roster was built LONG TERM, had we kept them. Everyone would take Woods in 2016 over Jones in 2019

 

 

1)EJ was Nix, but Whaley brought in Tyrod, who made the pro-bowl. That's not neglect.

 

2)He spent the cap but never hit cap hell. The team NEVER had to dump talent because of the cap.

 

3)This is unfounded speculation. He built a team that should have won with the amount of talent he brought here. ...and if you know a long term plan to win, let the world know because 31 teams haven't figured out how to do it, and the 32nd cheats.

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by unbillievable

[unbillievable]

 

24 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Again....what was his vision?  What was his plan for long term success?  You claimed it was “ground and pound,” but that was Rex’s vision and Doug. 

 

.

We should give Whaley a lot of credit for recognizing (which we all agreed at the time) that there just isn't enough FRANCHISE quarterbacks to go around. He agreed with the Pegulas to hire REx because "ground and pound" is the only alternative when you can't get that elusive QB. The offense actually improved... but who would have predicted that the defense would tank.

 

Whaley was a victim of circumstance where No good College QB's were coming out, and the few that did (Cam Newton) were out of reach in the draft. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by unbillievable

[Teddy KGB]

3 hours ago, BillsVet said:

They had a major need at center, knew about Morse's concussion history, and still went forward with the contract.  (Cue someone to say Beane didn't know he'd get another concussion). 

 

People here talk about Beane's management of the cap and how he maneuvered the team into a solid position after Whaley.  Yet, he's the guy who signed players like Star to a bloated contract, gave a thrice concussed Morse a big contract, and traded for Benjamin who flamed out fast.  He may not be as bad as Dugout Doug 2013-2016, but he's showing signs his command of personnel and dollars isn't as great as advertised.

 

For McBeane's sake, they'd better be a 10 or more win team this year.  Because not doing so is going to shine a bigger spotlight onto the whiffs in free agency.

 

 

 

You forgot about Zay ?

[Doc]

47 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

What you forget was Dareus was an All Pro and the scrubs we are talking about from Beane aren't even top 100 players.  That said: 

 

Morse if he can't play again.  20.4 M dead cap right now. 

 McCarron, Davis ate 7.6M in cap space for nothing. 

Ivory took 3.2M last year

Murphy took 7.87M last year 

 

So go ahead and tell me 

4 sacks and 385 yards were worth 18.7M last season.. 

 

I'll wait.

 

Lots wrong here.  Dareus hasn't been an All-Pro/top 100 since the year before he signed his huge extension.  McCarron (who netted a 5th rounder, which they used to get Ford) and Davis took up $4.2M ($2.2M apiece) in cap space.  Ivory took up $2.4M in cap space and his poor production was a factor of the OL.  And Murphy took up $4.9M in cap room.

[klos63]

4 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

Am I horrible that the first thing I thought after reading this is how our cap space is affected if Morse retires?

Nope, when players hold out for that extra dollar, they always say it's a business. It's ok for the fans to think the same way.

[nucci]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Bunch of useless speculation. Completely silly to be guessing about Morse and his situation. He could go on and play another 10 years, or he could be done tomorrow. Nobody knows anything.

which is why it is being discussed. That's what we do here...speculate and give our opinions...it's a damn message board!

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

20.4 million. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mitch-morse-16773/

 

 

They whiffed on QB quite hard.  Also traded 2 firsts for a wide receiver.  Traded a 4th for bryce brown.  The entire 2016 draft.  Not to mention whaley didn't get along with legit any head coach we brought in.  

 

A 4th is hardly a big deal for a player being paid peanuts.

 

qb is a big deal. 

 

Not getting along with coaches is bad but also why a gm should be picking a guy. That he kept getting coaches he didn’t pick and flip flopping schemes is going to be tough on any gm.

 

he missed on qb. Our organizational structure was junk. He assembled a good bit of talent despite that.

[Boca BIlls]

He better freaking play!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

Doug Whaley/Nix built a REALLY good roster... with the exception of a quarterback. They don't deserve the hate they get here for that... maybe for Rex, but many people loved that move then too.

It's been said that every GM/Couch will be judged by their choice of quarterback, no matter how well he does everywhere else. I guess it's true.

 

 

Whaley didn’t hire Rex. Pegula  did.

[Phil The Thrill]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

.

We should give Whaley a lot of credit for recognizing (which we all agreed at the time) that there just isn't enough FRANCHISE quarterbacks to go around. He agreed with the Pegulas to hire REx because "ground and pound" is the only alternative when you can't get that elusive QB. The offense actually improved... but who would have predicted that the defense would tank.

 

Whaley was a victim of circumstance where No good College QB's were coming out, and the few that did (Cam Newton) were out of reach in the draft. 

 

Tyrod a Pro Bowl QB?  Yeah as an alternate.  That is a super weak argument to give him props for that move.  

 

If Whaley was given as raw of a deal as you like to suggest, then why haven’t any NFL teams hired him? 

 

Brian Gaine was fired and rehired by the Bills within weeks.  So why hasn’t Doug been hired?  SPOILER it’s because he wasn’t a very good GM

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Whaley didn’t hire Rex. Pegula  did.

 

Whaley supported the hire

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

A 4th is hardly a big deal for a player being paid peanuts.

 

qb is a big deal. 

 

Not getting along with coaches is bad but also why a gm should be picking a guy. That he kept getting coaches he didn’t pick and flip flopping schemes is going to be tough on any gm.

 

he missed on qb. Our organizational structure was junk. He assembled a good bit of talent despite that.

 

He did such a good job acquiring talent with the Bills, that ZERO NFL teams have given him a chance to acquire talent on their roster in 3 years.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

20/20 foresight is so much more impressive than 20/20 hindsight. Can you please link us to all your posts objecting to the above signings WHEN THEY OCCURRED? 

 

We’ll wait. 

 

 

I said Morse was overpaid at the time.

I hated Ivory signing and posted at the time.

 I hated the Dareus trade.

I hated Murphy signing

I was quite ok with Star and the trade for KB. 

As for the most recent moves, I like the WR signings and I like Spaine. I’m not sold on Long and Nsekhe. I think both are average to below average but serviceable players. Ford probably wins RT spot.  And if Morse was healthy, Long would be in a dogfight for a roster spot with Teller.  

At this point I think Beane gets an undecided grade. For every good move there have been bad.

 

But every word I just typed is meaningless, because it is all about Allen. McD and Beane are gone if Allen is a bust.